Fixing a spider help!

Hey guys I have a paradigm sub where The spider came undone from the cone. And I was wondering what the best way to fix this is if any? The sub still play is loud and works fine except for when it starts hitting the spider and making an awful noise? what I wanted to know is if it would be better to just cut the spider away and leave the stone pla what I wanted to know is if it would be better to just cut the spider away and let The sub play without it. Or to use some kind of glue or something and try to reattach the spider to the cone. Any help would be great thanks!

Best Answers

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,729
    Answer ✓
    No, he's thinking about cutting out the spider instead of doing a proper repair. What he isn't understanding is the spider plays a critical role in controlling the woofer. The noise isn't from the cone hitting the loose spider as much as it is the woofer bottoming out due to lack of control.
    Yea I tried that and all they say is to send it in which will cost way to much.

    How much is way too much?

    Political Correctness'.........defined

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  • teamjhertz
    teamjhertz Posts: 361
    Answer ✓
    I was able to use some two part epoxy to attach the spider back to the former on a GR Research 12" subwoofer . I think the section that needed reattaching was about a 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch long if I remember correctly

    I believe it was just the loctite brand
  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    Answer ✓
    OK, woofer 101. See attached photo:
    1ba6vr8ddetg.gif
    A woofer is a linear motor. The cone, voice coil and former, are the moving parts of the motor. They are held in place by the suspension, which consists of the flexible surround, and the spider. These two components perform several functions: they allow the cone, voice coil and former to move, they keep the voice coil and former in perfect alignment in the air gap between the magnet and pole piece, and lastly, they aid in limiting mechanical excursion so the woofer doesn't self destruct.

    From what you've described, only the surround is holding things together. The spider, since it's no longer attached to the cone, voice coil and former, is acting as a guide, keeping the voice coil centered in the air gap.

    Without seeing it, I can't tell if the glue has failed, allowing the former to slide in the original hole in the spider, or if the spider is torn all the way around the original glue joint. I've seen both.

    If the glue has failed, and the spider has not been torn, then a repair is possible.
    You would need a flat, 1/4"-3/8" wide artists brush long enough to reach the joint, and some Aleen's Tacky Glue.
    Lay the woofer on its side. If possible, move the cone out gently to open the joint.
    Put some Tacky glue in a small cup. Dab the brush in the glue, load up the tip of the brush, and apply it directly to the joint, working between the spokes of the basket frame. Do this all the way around until you have an even coat. Press in on the cone, and ensure the glue is making contact with the back of the cone and the spider at the joint. Set the woofer aside, cone facing up. Put a weight of some type on the dust cap. It should be heavy enough to keep the new glue joint together, but not so heavy that it compresses the spider. Let it set at least 24 hours, or until the glues dries clear.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/

Answers

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,729
    Without the spider the woofer lacks the control it needs to perform properly. I suggest you contact Paradigm and talk to a tech to see what adhesive they recommend.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Yea I tried that and all they say is to send it in which will cost way to much. My thought is I have been using it now for almost a year with the broken spider. End it sounds great other than when it hits the cone and I hear it hitting So I was wondering if I should try to reglue it with some sort of blue or if I should just cut it out altogether? I would assume if I just cut it out it essentially be the same as I have been using it for the last year only without that bad sound and maybe it's life won't last as long
  • Also another thought I had was what it be a good idea to just get a car audio sub for or some other sub of the same ohmes and put it in the paradigm box. Do you think the paradigms sounds so good more so because of its box build or because of the speaker itself? Like maybe it would still sound almost as good with a car saubwoofer since it's still in the good paradigm box?
  • Paradoxex
    Paradoxex Posts: 189
    edited September 2016
    The subwoofer is likely tuned specifically to the volume of the enclosure that it is in, hopefully what Paradigm is using is better than a car audio sub.

    I'm not an expert, but I imagine both pieces are important, as is how they match each other, in determining the performance of a HT subwoofer. There's no magic fairy dust in the Paradigm box that will make a car subwoofer sound amazing. Is there some audio woofer, like a JL audio, that could sound decent? Yes....but you may spend far more time and money figuring out which one works than you would just repairing what you have.

    PS - cutting the spider out also sounds like a terrible idea. The subwoofer won't have the stability it needs to operate effectively. Someone more articulate on these matters can explain far better I am sure, but I imagine you'd just get muddy, if not improperly tuned bass out of a spiderless woofer.
  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,387
    I have had spiders detach from the basket before and was able to fix them with a thin coat of epoxy. This was for car speakers with no enclosure so I wasn't too worried about out-gassing of corrosive vapors. In an enclosure you need to be more careful but there is likely an adhesive that would work. You would want to use a minimal amount so that it doesn't add much weight and will not get all over the spider and make it stiffer.

    Perhaps a knowledgeable person on the forums here can recommend an adhesive. What is the cone material?
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
  • Hey guys I have a paradigm sub where The spider came undone from the cone. And I was wondering what the best way to fix this is if any? The sub still play is loud and works fine except for when it starts hitting the spider and making an awful noise? what I wanted to know is if it would be better to just cut the spider away and leave the stone pla what I wanted to know is if it would be better to just cut the spider away and let The sub play without it. Or to use some kind of glue or something and try to reattach the spider to the cone. Any help would be great thanks!
    Is the spider separated where it meets the cone and voice coil former, or separated at the basket frame? Is it torn?
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
  • It is just separated from the cone and former. It's still attached to the basket and doesn't appear to be ripped. And I kno it doesn't sound like a good idea to cut it out but that's essentially how I've already been using for the last year.
  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    edited September 2016
    You cut out the spider?
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
  • Thank for all the help guys. Look like I'm going to try the glue and painters brush idea. And I got the sub almost a year ago for like 100-150 or somthing and I think to send to paradigm would be a lot of shipping then like 50-100 for them to diagnose then more for parts and labor sooo. More than I spent on he sub. Btw I have been kinda buying and selling stereo epeiment here in STL for a hobby and to make a little money. And I just also picked up a brand new bic PL-200 for $40 and an energy 10" 300 watt sub for $45. Anybody have experience with those, or have any feelings about them compared to the 20 year old paradigm subs I have. A ps1000 v1. And. V4.
  • And thanks F1 and West, now I understand that the noise wasn't from hitting the spider but from bottoming out and hitting the back plate I guess.
  • Hey guys I ended up using the 5 minute epoxy and it seems to have worked great. Both my subwoofer and an outdoor speaker that I fixed have been working great for a few days now.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,729
    Too hard and therefore brittle in the long run, IMO. The adhesive needs to flex, hence the reason Aleen's Tacky is recommended. That said, I hope the epoxy lasts a long time for you.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk