Creating an RCA cable

ALL212

For some reason the theme to Gilligans Island comes to my head every time I start building these...

I've built a number of RCA cables and my favorite solid state amplifier creator uses Groneberg cables internally. I have the same cables as speaker cables so by creating RCA cables I have the same cable throughout the entire system.

The TS Premium cable (I believe this is also called the Quattro Reference) is not end user friendly. It has a thick outside jacket, braided shielding, a thin mylar layer, 4 conductors and a center drain. But... it is possible.

I use Cardas SRCA connectors as these can take the 10mm outside jacket of the Groneberg. My only gripe is how the ground wires attach but with the proper tool you can make it work.

Tools - nothing special here... maybe a surprise though.











The wire:


1st Cut:
I like to see just a bit of the jacket starting to show in the first gap so that's my measurement.


Here we go!
Shield is just aluminum strand, drain is copper as are the four conductors. I'll remove that mylar and cut most of the shield back. IHMO I really don't need it all - and I'm not sure that you could get it all in anyway.


Start of the prep:


Wire's stripped. Shield and drain wire pulled back:


Sorry for the blurry shot. Red connectors are now twisted together and soldered. I'll cut the paired center conductor tip off to square it off and then take a slice out of it diagonally so I can fit it in the center pin socket.


But first you've got to get it in the RCA connector. I just pull it all together and shove with a twist.


Just prior to soldering I use a dental pick to pull all of the loose wire up through the RCA connector. This step is critical. Some of the aluminum may break off and you cannot have any loose ends in the connector or it will short out.


Center now soldered. My poor soldering iron is on max speed when doing this. It takes a lot of heat to get this done and you don't want to bake the RCA for a long time on low heat.


I'll clip all of the ground wires back and tuck them into the connector before attempting to solder. I use a couple of clipping plyers to hold this steady and provide some heat sink to the center connection as I'm soldering.


Another semi-blurry shot. Post soldering.


Next step involves that tool you might have been surprised to see. The way that ground wire builds up with the solder will not allow the cover to go over the RCA connector. I carefully tap that band down so that I can get the cover on. If you tap too hard it will break - don't ask how I know that. I've also prepped that band in the past by denting it slightly but with this much wire it really doesn't help much.

It may take a few tries - don't force it or you'll strip out the RCA shield threads.


I attach the braid and drain to just one end of the cable and then mark that end. The opposite end only has the two black wires attached to it. The end with the braid and drain wires attached would go to the preamp or amp. Ungrounded end to the source.

msg

Interesting.
That group of wire you have fanned out around the connector ring - is that the black wires, shielding and drain? Have you tried just twisting and soldering these to the band/connector body and forgoing the hammer step? Seems "risky".

Re: the cable orientation, am I understanding correctly that you orient the cable with the shielding/drain termination on the signal flow destination? Not at the signal source?

I like those connectors. Are they a locking type? What is the plating? Silver/Rhodium over brass?

ALL212

msg wrote: »

Interesting.
That group of wire you have fanned out around the connector ring - is that the black wires, shielding and drain? Have you tried just twisting and soldering these to the band/connector body and forgoing the hammer step? Seems "risky".

Yes, that's the black wires, drain and shield over those. I have tried twisting and soldering but you end up with a rather large chunk of wire to place. This way you spread the wire out. Not saying that wouldn't work but I prefer this method.

Re: the cable orientation, am I understanding correctly that you orient the cable with the shielding/drain termination on the signal flow destination? Not at the signal source?

Yes, Shielding/drain is on the destination.

I like those connectors. Are they a locking type? What is the plating? Silver/Rhodium over brass?

Not locking, I've stopped liking those. Eutectic brass, rhodium over silver plate. Spring loaded tensioner. 9mm opening. Gold plated brass cover.

msg

I've become a bit of a connector junkie. I'll have to check these out. I don't understand how the spring loaded tensioner on this connector works, but they look nice.

Do you notice a difference in sound with the rhodium/silver? It's supposed to be more detailed and not quite as fat/relaxed as gold plated.

I get what you mean re: the large chunk of wire to place. I've seen cables terminated to the rings, or to the connector body. Seems like you could split them up - black pair to the body, and maybe the shield/drain to the ring or on the body on the other side of the positive? I'm sure I'd fracture the ring or the joint.

CoolJazz

Good job on posting the build. Thanks for taking the time to share!

With regards to wire drains. The rule of thumb is to drain noise to the low impedance end, which does mean to the source end. Source end as where the audio comes from. The reason is this...low impedance means it's less likely to be able to have the audio "pick up" or "receive" the noise you're draining. Think of it as potential crosstalk...you're sending a voltage, a noise to ground and you want to do that with the least potential for it getting mixed into your desired audio. At the low impedance source end, this is much less likely to happen.

CJ

pitdogg2

Two things I can help you with here. I have used these a ton. First thing I do is cut that band your soldering to then hammering on out. Just use some diagonal wire cutters then file down the rough edges. I then solder the wire and shield to the bottom of the connector. The positive is long enough to go past the spot for the pin I bend it back to make room to solder to the bottom. I then strip trim the positive to be able to fit nice into the pin hole. The second tool is a cheap double RCA extending connector plug. Plug that into the RCA it is two things a great heat sink AND keeps the pin in perfect position this you need on cheaper RCA ends but Cardas connectors will take a TON of heat and you need it (heat) to keep from getting cold solder joints. I called Cardas CS and they told me they pre heat them with propane torches so they take solder easier no need for that but it shows how much heat they can take where 99% of other RCA's would fold up and die.

That double RCA extender also keeps the RCA from rolling like you are using your hemostats for. Now you can use the hemostats to hold the positive wire while you solder to the bottom of the RCA. With the extra longer wire it will keep it off the RCA to help keep from melting the jacket.

Hope this helps.

msg

interesting, and this is the convention others contributed in one of my own recent posts as well.

So regarding drains and shielding - is the noise just dissipated along the shielding/drain
What is the difference between a shield and a drain? Does shield just help prevent additional pickup/transmission from neighboring cable bleed? And a drain dissipates the noise from the source?

Is it correct that both shield and drain are only terminated on the source end, and tucked/left open on the destination end?

ALL212

msg wrote: »

Do you notice a difference in sound with the rhodium/silver? It's supposed to be more detailed and not quite as fat/relaxed as gold plated.

I'm going to do a "no comment" on that. I like the science, I like the theory. I can't hear a damn difference on most of the good quality ends. The wire...ya, that I can normally pick out but put different ends on the same wire...na, it's all the same to my old ears.

msg wrote: »

I don't understand how the spring loaded tensioner on this connector works,

If you take a look at the pictures you'll see what look like threads at the top of the RCA. This is the spring wrapped around the grounding fingers.

pitdogg2 wrote: »

The second tool is a cheap double RCA extending connector plug. Plug that into the RCA it is two things a great heat sink AND keeps the pin in perfect position this you need on cheaper RCA ends but Cardas connectors will take a TON of heat and you need it (heat) to keep from getting cold solder joints. I called Cardas CS and they told me they pre heat them with propane torches so they take solder easier no need for that but it shows how much heat they can take where 99% of other RCA's would fold up and die.

That double RCA extender also keeps the RCA from rolling like you are using your hemostats for. Now you can use the hemostats to hold the positive wire while you solder to the bottom of the RCA. With the extra longer wire it will keep it off the RCA to help keep from melting the jacket.

Hope this helps.

Hmmm....I like that idea!

Cutting the band is something I've done as well but in spite of my whining about the hammer technique it's my preferred way.

As far as the drain wire goes...I'm not sure why it's there. Most cables won't have one. Maybe to cut down crosstalk on the conductors? I'm a guessing on that...

msg

great description/method
is this the double RCA extending plug you're talking about?

pitdogg2 wrote: »

That double RCA extender also keeps the RCA from rolling like you are using your hemostats for. Now you can use the hemostats to hold the positive wire while you solder to the bottom of the RCA. With the extra longer wire it will keep it off the RCA to help keep from melting the jacket.

ALL212

I wasn't going to tell you guys this.... it's been a secret for quite some time...

If you bury the ends of this particular cable with these particular RCA's built in this particular manner in mayonnaise it will grow a Bottlehead Reduction. It doesn't work every time... so don't get your hopes up.

SCompRacer

ALL212 wrote: »

If you bury the ends of this particular cable with these particular RCA's built in this particular manner in mayonnaise it will grow a Bottlehead Reduction. It doesn't work every time... so don't get your hopes up.

Oh man! Tall tales from the North of me! Nice cables though.

FTGV

SCompRacer wrote: »

ALL212 wrote: »

If you bury the ends of this particular cable with these particular RCA's built in this particular manner in mayonnaise it will grow a Bottlehead Reduction. It doesn't work every time... so don't get your hopes up.

Oh man! Tall tales from the North of me! Nice cables though.

But he is the World's okayest DAD.

SCompRacer

FTGV wrote: »

But he is the World's okayest DAD.[/quote]

Aaron is Ichibon! A # 1!

pitdogg2

msg wrote: »

great description/method
is this the double RCA extending plug you're talking about?

pitdogg2 wrote: »

That double RCA extender also keeps the RCA from rolling like you are using your hemostats for. Now you can use the hemostats to hold the positive wire while you solder to the bottom of the RCA. With the extra longer wire it will keep it off the RCA to help keep from melting the jacket.

Yes one of the Senior members turned me on to those. I was way over thinking at the time so simple yet works so good.

ALL212

SCompRacer wrote: »

FTGV wrote: »

But he is the World's okayest DAD.

Aaron is Ichibon! A # 1!


[/quote]

Gotta be known for something...could be worse!

SCompRacer

ALL212 wrote: »

Gotta be known for something...could be worse!

We gotta hook up one of these days! Still trying to kill me with OT. They say they can't find anybody qualified, but I think they just want to do me in....

ALL212

Roger that! We just picked up a "new" facility in Rockford. It's been run into the ground so I have just a bit more to do than usual.

But...there is always time somewhere.

I'd really like to do a cable (interconnect - RCA type) shootout someday.

mhardy6647

hmmm -- never thought of it as "creating" a cable.
Creating one would involve some smelting and stuff, I would think.

ALL212

mhardy6647 wrote: »

hmmm -- never thought of it as "creating" a cable.
Creating one would involve some smelting and stuff, I would think.

Good lord...one of "those"....

I did smelt it...it smelt pretty bad when the iron hit the insulation!

mantis

I build cables all the time. I actually thought about Telling Audioquest they have a new Master Builder.

mhardy6647

Better than telling Rapala that you found a master baiter for them, I suppose...

(c'mon, someone had to say it, right?)

lightman1

mhardy6647

yeah, I know, huh?

lightman1

That's why we like you so much, Dr H.

SCompRacer

SCompRacer

ALL212 wrote: »

I'd really like to do a cable (interconnect - RCA type) shootout someday.

Here's a chart for terminology.

ALL212

mhardy6647

nbrowser wrote: »

lightman1 wrote: »

Yep, that ab out sums it up...however I'd of expected the comment that prompted this...to come from...YOU!

Around here, we like to confound expectations.
We're a force to be reckoned with.

lightman1

Keep 'em guessing, right?

mhardy6647 wrote: »

nbrowser wrote: »

lightman1 wrote: »

Yep, that ab out sums it up...however I'd of expected the comment that prompted this...to come from...YOU!

Around here, we like to confound expectations.
We're a force to be reckoned with.

CoolJazz

Shield vrs. drain...

I don't know of a real official definition we can use. Shield is a term used in many ways. I tend to think towards the well shielded RF cabling shields when I hear the word "shield". Used as a coax, often multiple layers are present and always all tied at both ends. It's a "shield". The connector on a device may have a switch to lift the ground from making connection to the equipment but the interconnection is still providing a shielding from influencing the desired signal.

Drain by name suggests flow. In this case current flow. To do this it'll always go only one direction. And to carry noise and not have it get impressed or crosstalk into the desired signal, we go to the low impedance end or the "sending" end to drain. When you have a drain present, you will have another conductor being used as the shield, the low, the return, the ground, whatever you're calling it depending on use.

But I try to always use the correct term, drain, when it's only tied down at one end. It's easy to say shield when it's more correct to call it a drain.

In this day and age, setting down a cell phone in the area of your rig, these connection being done well and using cabling with good characteristics for it, are getting more and more important. Lots of RF stuff floating around. Not to mention the potential of garbage on AC lines from switch mode supplies also running up towards RF frequencies too.

The AC line from most all CD players for instance is going to be a poor radiating antenna, but may very well for a short distance coming from the player, be capable of radiating noise that can be physically close to your audio cabling and present opportunity for crosstalk.

RF noise presents itself as a very slight layer of grunge on the audio and isn't noticeable in many cases until it's gone. Cabling into the components, both audio and AC, is a prime place it can be introduced.

CJ

Polkaguy58

I like to make my connects using high quality guitar cable.
They're designed to sheild guitars from excess noise caused by pesky bar light transformers and such.
Whirlwind makes great cable with muti-strand steel jackets. (I buy the see through clear and red ones).
Their RCA ends are nickle plated, which accept solder quite well.
Stripping such cables is a breeze if you buy a cheap coaxial wire stripper with the dual size blade cutter built in.
I make all my cables to size to keep the back of my systems as clean as possible.