Speaker wire question

audioblaster

Hey guys I was wondering if it really makes a big difference if I have good speaker wire/ matching speaker wire for all speakers? I don't have anything to high end but it's monitor 40's and 30's with denon 3808. But I just used a bunch of random left over wire. Some smaller gauge than others and none really very high of quality. Should I invest in a better but still somewhat inexperience speaker wire? Also any specific suggestions? Thanks!

Nightfall

Yes and yes.

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

This is about as cheap as it gets for something decent.

audioblaster

Yea I guess the price of that wire isn't to bad. But it said $3.75 for a short 6 foot section (which I'm fine with) but as soon as I added banana plugs to just that one wire the price went up to $33.75. Seems crazy to pay that much for one 6 foot wire just for them to weld bannana plugs on it. I guess I just figured there would still be cheaper options.

Nightfall

Then your next option is Chinese.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=13913

Moose68Bash

I'm just an old timer with far too much gray hair -- actually, too little gray hair, with emphasis on the "hair" rather than the "gray."

I've learned a lot over my 70+ years. Two things are relevant to this discussion:

1. You get what you pay for.
2. You can't afford to buy cheap.

My suggestion is to buy Canare S11 and some reasonable spades or banana plugs, put the cables together yourself, and enjoy!

Not cheap and not expensive, and they'll serve you well -- albeit a little on the bright side for my taste, but very good overall sound reproduction for the money.

audioblaster

Thanks guys.

afterburnt

I used Douglas connection Fuerez 12ga and Sewell Deadbolt Bananas. It was not all that expensive.

Moose68Bash

@audioblaster,

If you don't want to build your speaker cables yourself, you should take seriously the above suggestion by @afterburnt . Doug (@helipilotdoug) at Douglas Connections is a great person to consult and do business with.

pkquat

audioblaster wrote: »

Yea I guess the price of that wire isn't to bad. But it said $3.75 for a short 6 foot section (which I'm fine with) but as soon as I added banana plugs to just that one wire the price went up to $33.75. Seems crazy to pay that much for one 6 foot wire just for them to weld bannana plugs on it. I guess I just figured there would still be cheaper options.

You can get the cable without terminations. People have mentioned the labor to terminate the cable, plus they use an ultrasonic welding process which is an investment, but produces the best bond.

I have yet to find a decent set of inexpensive banana plugs I like. I like this style though. If you want bananas only, I like this style connection, but I have not tried these personally. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/banana-plugs/plugs-bp-sz-single-banana-plug-black/

I prefer spades. They are inexpensive, even for gold plated copper. You can add solder and heat shrink if you like. I have a few pair of more expensive banana plugs and pins that I can screw the spades too if I want to swap things out or am doing a temporary hook up.

IMO I am not a fan of the non-locking banana's shown on the Bluejeans page. The spring portion spins on the center pin. Sometimes it does not make the best contact between the pin and the spring portion, and often don't feel very secure in the socket.

msg

As PK mentions, I'm also a fan of the the double screw down termination bananas, similar to the ones that PK links above.

Doug carries a bunch of different kinds - http://douglasconnection.com/Banana-Connectors_c11.htm

I've also used the Sewell Silverback - https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=sewell+silverback

This type of connection makes it pretty easy to build cables.

mikeyb128

In my opinion the best banana plug out there.

msg

Mike, are those the Madisound ones?

ALL212

I've been mining in the deep dark recesses of the retired items cave and have found some Canare wire (no terminations). I'm not sure how long these are or how long you'd need but for the cost of shipping they could be yours. If you're interested let me know and I'll measure up what I have.

pkquat

msg wrote: »

Mike, are those the Madisound ones?

They look like the Madisound ones to me. I like the screw down as well. The only thing I don't like about those is you cannot screw spades to them, but for the price, I would not expect to be able too. There are similar ones plug styles out there that will accept spades. Most often this style have good spring to them for a good connection.

mikeyb128

Those are bfa bananas. They are springy, and have a very tight fit on the speaker/amp terminals, with lots of surface area for contact. They are cheap, and very effective.

leftwinger57

I know this is a few days old but I had terrible fitting bananas that were to long and to thin so they moved around. Dave (wmd) to some said to use these Nakamichi Brand of a stubby double set screw type and I changed out all my bananas and they are in there hard and fast. I think these are the ones.

No affiliation just a customer


http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-pcs-Nakamichi-Gold-Plate-Audio-Banana-Speaker-Plug-/231009514991?hash=item35c93d75ef:g:0SsAAOSwiCRUgYu6

Moose68Bash

I've used these Nakamichi bananas to build some cables. I, too, like the double screws to secure each plug, if you don't want to solder the connections.

These seem to work well, and I cannot comment on whether they make any difference in sound quality v. others in the same price range.

kenwstr

In answer to the OP, I do PA for my local church and as funds have always been tight, I haven't upgraded much. However, our sound has always lacked base response and clarity. I commented to a supplier that I didn't think much of our speakers and he defended them vigorously. So I did some investigations with different amps, eq

F1nut

Your sound will always lack base because you're trying to get the wrong thing. It's bass you want.

kenwstr

To answer the OP, Our church PA has always lacked base response and clarity. However, due to some comments I did some testing and investigation. I found that it didn't matter what quality amp, EQ or no EQ was used, the sound remained profoundly unchanged. The only component I hadn't changed was the speaker cable. So I went to Bunnings and bought 30m 14AWG cable ($40) or so and made up 4 sets of 7.5m cables and replaced the old 18 AWG ones. This profoundly improved, not only base response but also clarity to give a much more natural sounding spectrum. This simply come down to damping factor (load over source impedance). As far as the drivers are concerned, the cable, crossovers and amp itself are all part of the source impedance. After this experience, I would say the biggest and most important lesson in HiFi is simply to installing speaker cables that meet an acceptably low impedance spec (there are tables on the web, some are clearly wrong). In fact it's a general principle in all analogue interconnects that source impedance must be much lower that the load or signal degradation will occur. This is usually a non issue due to component design but drivers are low impedance so speaker cable matters a lot more. In PA, it is why guitars particularly must use a high Z (impedance) input like a DI and not connect directly to a low Z input used for mics as that will suck the rich tones and make it sound thin. Now I have read more on PA recommendations and these are pretty solid engineering based principles, not folk science. Other cable properties such as capacitance with the insulation dielectric can affect the sound in a similar way but to a much lesser degree. So one should never sacrifice impedance for any other cable property. Over spec the gauge before looking at anything else you may wish to do in addition. Cable impedance is a function of gauge and length, the shorter and thicker, the better (within reason).

Ken

F1nut

This simply come down to damping factor (load over source impedance).

No, it didn't. The difference between a damping factor of 50 and 1000 is so small it's a joke. Besides, the damping factor is first and foremost a function of the amplifier.

Speaking of which, there is a lot more to speaker cable than the impedance. While I'm at it, home audio and pro audio are two very different things. Basically, one doesn't apply to the other.

mhardy6647

F1nut wrote: »

Your sound will always lack base because you're trying to get the wrong thing. It's bass you want.

F1nut wrote: »

This simply come down to damping factor (load over source impedance).

No, it didn't. The difference between a damping factor of 50 and 1000 is so small it's a joke. Besides, the damping factor is first and foremost a function of the amplifier.

Speaking of which, there is a lot more to speaker cable than the impedance. While I'm at it, home audio and pro audio are two very different things. Basically, one doesn't apply to the other.

Totally agree (and the DF of my main amplifier, with no NFB, is about 8, FWIW).
Damping factor (which, as implied, is really just a nominal index of the output impedance of an amplifier) isn't utterly unimportant... but its importance is far overrated by some, and there are still amplifiers that achieve high DF values through questionable circuit design.

Pro audio (especially sound reinforcement, as in an auditorium or church) is generally about distribution and often uses (relatively) high voltage (25 or 75V) lines to drive transformer coupled individual loudspeakers (so as to manage the load on the amplifier(s) and to ensure appropriate output levels across a system).

mhardy6647

Oh. In the interest of fairness, the thing that is true about amplifiers with relatively high output impedance (i.e., low "damping factor") is that they'll "feel" the impedance curve of the load (loudspeaker) more than a high DF amplifier. The amplifier and its load are more interactive (so to speak) when the amplifier's output impedance is high (e.g., a SET amplifer with no NFB may have an output impedance of 1 ohm, which corresponds to a DF of 8 with a nominal 8-ohm load). This would be inconsequential if the nominal impedance of the load were equal to its actual impedance (i.e., the impedance was absolutely fixed and constant as a function of frequency across the full response range of the loudspeaker load). This is true of very few loudspeakers, though (Magneplanars are pretty pure resistive loads, with more or less flat impedance curves)... which is part of the reason why DF is a pretty useless measure of anything very relevant.

The interaction of an amplifier with its load may be considered a problem... or an "opportunity" This is at the heart of what folks on this forum like to call "system synergy"... it's not black magic, but rather the choice of components that work well together for good (if not always easy to quantify, or perhaps even to model) physical reason.

FTGV

Very informative post by the knowledgeable mr hardy.Those little SET amps with low NFB and numerous feet of copper wire coiled up at their outputs does impart on them a certain sonic flavour.As you point out that flavour will change depending upon the loudspeaker load connected.Sometimes it may even be a flavour one likes.
Personally I prefer the frequency response of my amplifiers to be load invariant.
As mentioned the importance of ultra high damping factor is often over stated.Any competently designed solid state amplifier with a push pull output stage will have sufficiently low output impedance to keep damping factor high enough as to be an non issue.

lightman1

You spelt flavor wrong.

FTGV

lightman1 wrote: »

You spelt flavor wrong.

Lol Thanx.
Wrong for you but right for me. http://www.searchenginepeople.com/blog/canadian-american-spelling-differences-does-your-blog-speak-to-the-proper-market.html

lightman1

You Canerdians are so silly.

mhardy6647

Notice that the North Carolingian spelled "spelt" your way
He is a wise and learned fellow.

[Deleted User]

its all about capacitance w/ us Transparent and MIT dudes.

FTGV

Indeed so in turn I speld thanks in North Carolinian so he iz comprehend.

Jazzhead

Good sounding and reasonably priced speaker cable: Douglas Connection 10/2 Furez cable ($1.45 per foot). The Furez connectors (spades and bananas) he sells are reasonable as well. Look in the DIY section.