Cap experts - please vet my Monitor 11 caps selection

canhazbeer

I'm gearing up to do my first ever crossover rebuild and need someone to check my math before I order my parts.

I'm doing the caps and resisters on a set of Monitor 11's with Peerless.

The goal is to do a budget-minded build that isn't totally bargain-basement, no more than $100 total. I especially want to open up the sound and bring out a little more detail and transparency because I find the 11's dense, mids-heavy and slightly veiled.

The stock parts per speaker are:
(2) 4.5 ohm resisters
(1) 0.5 cap
(1) 4.9 cap
(2) 45 caps

Per recommendations I've seen elsewhere I prioritized getting nicer small caps and went more entry level for the big ones. I don't know how long I'll keep these speakers so my budget is capped to where I can likely break even if I sell them. If I love them so much after the recap that I keep them long term I can always replace the big caps later and only be out $44.

Also I had trouble finding exact value replacement caps so I'm fudging it a little bit.

My shopping list:

Mills 4.5 ohm resisters - $4.25 x 4 = $17.00. www.parts-express.com
0.47 ClarityCap ESA (3%) - $5.55 x 2 = $11.10. www.madisound.com
4.7 ClarityCap ESA (3%) - $9.45 x 2 = $18.90. www.madisound.com
47 Jantzen CrossCaps (5%) - $11.05 x 4 = $44.20. www.loudspeakerfreaks.com

Total: $91.2.

Other large caps I considered were Audyn Q4's and Solen PB's. Other small caps I considered were Sonicaps, but I chose Clarity ESA's based on price and reviews.

How'd I do? Any major problems?

F1nut

Wouldn't be my choice, but should work.

westmassguy

Technically, you have RTA-11s. The only thing I'd suggest, is Clarity PX for C3 & C4.
They're more expensive than the Jantzens, but they'll blend better with the ESAs, especially C4.
If they were mine, I'd save up, wait a little longer and get the PXs.

MrBuhl

I used the ESA's in my 2bTLs, I like 'em!

+1 on Davids recommendation, save for the PX Clarity if you're going Clarity.

BTW - I don't claim to be an expert!

heiney9

I'd try to source from the same vendor as you will save in shipping costs.

I also agree on keeping with the Clarity across the board. Pass on the Solens, not a great cap but merely just adequate

Check out Soniccraft here: http://www.soniccraft.com/

Sonicaps are great caps and you can get custom values. Take the money saved on shipping from multiple vendors and appy to Sonicaps.

That said the Clarity cap line is excellent. A combo of PX and ESA is great. Partsconnexion is having a 40% off Clarity ESA and MR cap sale. Be sure and check them out too. Also 20% off everything else.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/


H9

motorhead43026

I want to echo 9 above. I use 100% Sonicaps in my crossovers rebuilds.

canhazbeer

Christ guys, I should've expected your recommendations would involve me spending more money

F1nut wrote: »

Wouldn't be my choice, but should work.

Thanks. I started from square one and nearly everything I know about crossovers and capacitors I've learned in the last few days, so still a lot more to learn. With that in mind, what would you go with? Is it just a matter of you preferring different caps from the ones I chose?

westmassguy wrote: »

Technically, you have RTA-11s. The only thing I'd suggest, is Clarity PX for C3 & C4.
They're more expensive than the Jantzens, but they'll blend better with the ESAs, especially C4.
If they were mine, I'd save up, wait a little longer and get the PXs.

I often call them Monitors because they basically are Monitors so that's how I think of them, and it helps avoid confusion with the RTA 11T and 11TL. But yeah, RTA-11's in the literature. I guess on a forum full of Polk experts I should just call them the right thing and trust you guys know what I'm talking about.

heiney9 wrote: »

I'd try to source from the same vendor as you will save in shipping costs.

I also agree on keeping with the Clarity across the board. Pass on the Solens, not a great cap but merely just adequate

Check out Soniccraft here: http://www.soniccraft.com/

Sonicaps are great caps and you can get custom values. Take the money saved on shipping from multiple vendors and appy to Sonicaps.

That said the Clarity cap line is excellent. A combo of PX and ESA is great. Partsconnexion is having a 40% off Clarity ESA and MR cap sale. Be sure and check them out too. Also 20% off everything else.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/


H9

Thanks, didn't realize you could get custom Sonicaps. I'm going to look into that. EDIT: way too expensive, kinda the reason I went with ESA's over Sonicaps in the first place. One custom 45 Sonicap would probably be like $70, that's nearly my entire budget. By comparison the PX's look like a bargain.


It seems most of you agree that I should go all-Clarity and spring for PX's for C3 and C4. I love that idea, but I don't love spending $100 just on those four caps. At that point I'd have more money invested in the speakers than I can likely get back for them, and again I'd rather not do that because I don't know how long it will be before I trade them for something else. It really depends on how they sound when I'm done. I'll check shipping costs and see what makes sense, maybe I'll decide to do it anyway. I appreciate everyone's input, don't want to seem like I'm asking for advice and then ignoring it, just need to balance my priorities here.

Are there any cheaper alternatives to the Clarity PX that might blend better with the ESA's? And is the audible difference between PX's and CrossCaps on C3 and C4 really great enough to justify paying more than twice as much?

pitdogg2

you'll most of the time NEVER get out of them what you put into them. If you're not sure you are going to keep and you are a flipper then why waste your time let alone ours. you could always just put in newer electrolytic caps and have like $12.00 in new substandard caps. Yes we will point in the way that makes the most sense for the dollar and many have very tried and true experience with the above caps and when someone say's stay away from such and such cap it isn't that we want to just spend your money it is most of the time going to be that they are not good quality and may make it sound far worse....

I'd spend the money on Sonicaps or better Clarity we've been around the block on those and they are worth the money....

http://www.partsconnexion.com/ VERY SOLID place to get caps 20-40% off how do you go wrong?

ball is in your court.

canhazbeer

pitdogg2 wrote: »

you'll most of the time NEVER get out of them what you put into them. If you're not sure you are going to keep and you are a flipper then why waste your time let alone ours. you could always just put in newer electrolytic caps and have like $12.00 in new substandard caps. Yes we will point in the way that makes the most sense for the dollar and many have very tried and true experience with the above caps and when someone say's stay away from such and such cap it isn't that we want to just spend your money it is most of the time going to be that they are not good quality and may make it sound far worse....

I'd spend the money on Sonicaps or better Clarity we've been around the block on those and they are worth the money....

http://www.partsconnexion.com/ VERY SOLID place to get caps 20-40% off how do you go wrong?

ball is in your court.

You don't need to respond if you feel it's a waste of your time, I was totally up front in my first post. But I do appreciate that you took the time to respond. My jab about spending more money was a joke, I don't think you guys are just elitists who want me to spend money for no reason. I trust your expertise and am willing to spend more if it's worth it. But I'm also trying to learn more about this and figure out what will work best for my needs, that's why I'm asking follow-up questions. It comes from a place of curiosity, not distrust. As I said, I may end up going for the PX's. That's the exact sort of feedback I'm looking for. I have plenty of other gear-head hobbies and realize it's always gonna cost you money at some point, but there's nothing wrong with being economical to the extent that I can with my limited means. That can be part of the fun, but it often involves deciding what trade-offs you're willing to make. I'm trying to understand those trade-offs so I can get closer to your level.

I'm not a flipper, I'm just new to the vintage audio hobby and trying to figure out what I'm doing and what I like. These 11's are my first large home speaker and were a big change from the type of sound signature I'm used to, they're growing on me and suit the type of music I use them for but I'm also curious what else is out there. Meanwhile I just picked out some A100's for someone else's system and they blew me away and made me want to sample other things. I may replace the 11's soon depending on how they sound after the recap, or I may keep them as my mains for a long time, or I might keep them and just add more speakers to my collection. I just don't know yet, this whole thing is an experiment. I do think the longer I keep these 11's the harder it will be for me to part with them. They kind of tie the room together.

I don't want to put cheap electrolytics in because I don't want to use crap. I want to give these speakers a real improvement so I can enjoy listening to them, not refurbish them as cheaply as possible to flip. This will be my first opportunity to hear what a difference fresh caps make.

Nightfall

From what F1Nut told me about installing Blackhole 5 behind the midwoofers that would help with the shouty midrange. You might be able to find smaller leftover pieces from eBay or here with a WTB thread to save money.

heiney9

The minimum would be Clarity Caps at all positions. If you really needed to cut some costs the 47uF I assume is for the bass circuit. If you NEED to cut costs it will have minimal effect there to go with a lesser cap. But use something reputable like a Jantzen or Solen, etc. That's the best compromise I can come up with as a recommendation.

Also, if you are upgrading/modding you'll never get what you invest out of them. But you will get a huge enjoyment factor going forward and in many cases still have less invested than buying new and in many cases better sound than new speakers. So look at it that way.

Also, many of us have been around the block and we've already made the mistakes so you don't have to....lol.

The difference once you upgrade the caps is significant, and at first you won't believe it. It will take about 150-200 hours of break-in so don't get discouraged if they don't sound fantastic right away.

You're on the right track

H9

P.s. Did you check Partsconnexion as they are having a huge sale on ESA caps and 20% off everything else. They are awesome to deal with

P.s.s The 4.7uF Clarity ESA is $6.82 at Partsconnexion. Be sure and go with the 250v as they are physically smaller and easier to deal with

heiney9

Parts Connexion

Clarity ESA 40% off

.47uF 250v $3.96 ea
4.7uF 250v $6.82 ea

Solen 47uF 400v $13.83 and get 20% off = $11.07

Do the math seems very reasonable to me and only 1 shipping charge. They carry the Mills but only in a 4.7 ohm. That would probably do, but if you want exact then use another vendor. But the 20% off applies to Mills too.

The ESA's are being replaced and have been on sale for a couple months so check stock.

H9

heiney9

I just bought ESA's to upgrade coupling caps in a DAC, I only received 30% off as they just started the 40% of ESA and MR caps.

JPete

I've been putting off doing my 11s for a while since I don't use them much anymore, but curious to see your final parts list and get your thoughts on how they sound. Hope you decide to take a few pictures and keep this thread going.

Good luck with the rebuild.

canhazbeer

heiney - I'm going to pull the trigger on those small ESA's while the sale is going and they're still in stock. Still debating on the PX's, but at 20% off they are close enough in price to the CrossCaps that it probably does make more sense to make that upgrade. I trust the consensus here.

JPete - since 11's seem to get relatively less press around here I'll keep this thread updated for posterity as things progress. And pics!

westmassguy

For future reference, Sonic Craft does not make custom values. They will custom match caps for you, or make up specific larger values using multiple caps, and hand match them.

F1nut

heiney9 wrote: »

The ESA's are being replaced and have been on sale for a couple months so check stock.

H9

Replaced with the CSA, only real difference is how the foil is connected to the leads. Same with the MR replacement, the CMR. I have to say whoever decided that purple was a good color choice for the CSA needs their head examined. Ugh! I also noticed they are not offering the same values as before, some strange choices there as well.

Meanwhile, Sonicap added values over the years specifically for vintage Polk speakers. Smart business.