Advices/Suggestions on upgrade

atl999

Pioneer VSX-1120 receiver
Polk Monitor 70 (L ,R)
Polk CSiA6 (C)
Polk Monitor 40 (Rear L/R and Rear Surround L/R)
HSU STF-2 Powered Subwoofer

Want to repurpose all of these existing equipment if possible, and spend on pre-amp, upgrade main speakers to RTiA9 or something similar may be and also, upgrade the A/V Receiver.

If I go for a new receiver, can the existing Pioneer be used as Amp/Pre-Amp?

Recently saw a floor model of RTi12 for $379 each - is that a good deal to add to my existing setup (or replace Monitor 70) or let it go?

Nightfall

What are you looking to accomplish? What does your current setup lack in or fail in your opinion?

Why do you want to use two separate AVR's as a preamp and amp? You might as well just get a dedicated power amp to go with your current AVR.

atl999

Thanks. I have in my basement a home theater having three sides closed and one end open. I am not an expert on how to describe on what is lacking, but I feel that there should be more bass and more clarity of sound instruments. Currently, I feel that strings and drums are not coming out with its own punch- it somehow makes me feel that they need some kind of distinct identity- in other words, it lacks the fidelity. I have put acoustic panels to cut the reflections and that helped improve the sound quality a lot but I still feel that when watching sci-fi movies or any action movie, the sound effect leaves a lot to desire.

rpf65

i think I would be looking at subwoofers, more so than speakers. The speaker you have is designed for small to medium sized rooms.

Rated down to 25 HZ is better than a lot of subs, but there are better ones out there. Move up Hsu's food chain to say the VTF-3 mk5, or look at SVS PB-2000.

As you haven't mentioned room size, this is only speculation. You need to take total cubic feet into consideration. No wall or door separating the space means it needs to be pressurized also. You can't have too much subwooferage. You can always lower the volume.

The A9's and your sub extend down pretty close to within a few HZ of each other. If your goal is more low frequency response, the A9's won't help very much. Actually if you run them full range on an AVR, the would probably hinder your overall sound stage.

Not trying to bad mouth your sub, many people would be happy with its performance. If you want those special effects to pop, I think the 2 I mentioned would be a good starting point.

To go along with my other post, I think the A7's and say a Power Sound Audio V-1500 would probably be more in line of what you need. You'll probably want to add a 2 channel amp with the A7's. If you want to stay away from amps, the A5's work well also.

atl999

Thanks for the response. Do you really believe that A5s or A7s are really better than Monitor 70? Also, I wanted to know what amp you would suggest?

My hall is 20x70 but we watch from a distance of nearly 30 ft and all our speakers are placed within this distance. I am mostly concerned about Home Theater experience and not overall hall - meaning I would care for the sound effect within 30 ft only - unless open area makes any difference.

rpf65

I'll start by saying if you like the 70's keep them. They're just not timbre matched with the CSI A6. If your happy with your front sound stage keep it as is. Just sounded like you wanted to upgrade the front mains when I first read your post.

If you want to spend money, you came to the right place. People have no problem spending other people's money here. That said, when dealing with HT, it's more cost effective to go with a 2-way speaker, and get a better sub.

Currently my system is geared more towards HT, so I bought the A5's. That and they sounded better with an AVR than the A7 or A9's, at least to my ears. Weather anything will sound better to your ears than those 70's you have is for you alone to decide. If you read through many of these posts, you'll find that members here stress that. What you hear is what matters most.

Second thing about HT is that it is usually recommended that you run your speakers at the small setting. That means whatever the crossover frequency you finally select, the bass below that setting will go to the powered sub. Get the A9's, and possibly the A7's, you may want to run those guys at large. That means the bass (,1) info will also go to them. At some point they won't be able to handle it, but that's where the sub comes in. Having those woofer to power is also why you would want to add an amp.

You have a very large area. Your weak link is the sub. Put your sub in a 12x14 room, and you will probably be happy. Problem is that your asking it to do a little to much. You'll need at least one of those 15's that Hsu makes to get those effects that you notice are missing.

That's were I would start spending money, if I were you. After that, if you still don't like what you hear, worry about the front mains. Best thing about getting a good, capable sub is you really don't need to worry about the low frequencies any longer.

Other sub manufacturers you may want to consider is SVS, Rythmik, and if you want to go really big, Power Sound Audio. When it comes price to performance, these, along with Hsu, are probably the best out there.

atl999

Thanks for your inputs. I have gone ahead and bought A9 from NewEgg - currently, they are going for $550 apiece. This will help me to get the front matching now and would improve the experience for sure, as I have read on the various forum that people have experienced a huge improvement in sound quality after upgrading from monitor to RTi. At a later time, I will see what to do on sub.

However, I need a suggestion on a good amp for A9s. Everyone has kind of indicated that A9 would need amp to get the best output.

I am really now low on my budget as I have spent most on A9s. Any suggestion on getting any old one on ebay or this forum which could work for my A9s?

hochpt21

The monitor 70's were my first ever speaker purchase. I still have them and they are in my current HT. They will always have a special place for me.

Having said that...every speaker I have purchased since has bested them. They are definitely not the last word in punch or fidelity you mention above.

I think you made a good decision with the A9's.

An older 200w B&K, Parasound, Adcom or Rotel can be had for at, or under $500.

atl999

How about Emotiva BasX A-300 (on sale at their site for $499)? Will be a good match for my set up to support A9s? Although it has 150 watts RMS per channel at less than 0.1% THD into 8 ohms.

For the same price or less could anyone recommend any other amp on ebay which would work better with A9s?

Nightfall

http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-K-Components-200-2-Amp-/252463846903?hash=item3ac80495f7:g:A9EAAOSwbsBXil5H

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BK-EX-4420-2-Channel-Amplifier-/222187738183?hash=item33bb6bd447:g:0YgAAOSwZVlXiRMn

rpf65

Most people here don't think Emo works well with RTI series speakers. Most recommended match is Parasound.

atl999

Thanks rpf65 and Nightfall, are these (B&K and Parasound amps) good for HT setup also?

atl999

Also, I have a strange dilemma on buying a new amplifier vs. old used ones. I am not an expert nor have much understanding on what could be considered as good for quality parts used in old equipment vs. new ones which tend to have less quality material used as I read on many posts.
But even from a wear and tear point of view, and risk of having no warranty, is is really worth spending $500 or so on something which is nearly 15-20 years old? Could someone please educate me on this aspect, since there must be something special about these amps/pre-amps for the fact that they are still selling at a very high price on eBay.

rpf65

Try usaudiomart.

If you find something that intrests you, start a new post and ask if it's fair value.

At 15 or more years old you want to get it serviced from a reputable person anyway. You'll get a list of things bad or going bad then decide if it's worth it to you to repair. If it isn't, resell it.

Want new, start a new post, and ask for website or better yet a dealer near you.

This hobby is a little different than most. If you find a dealer, and explain to him what it is you're trying to achieve, he will probably give you good advice. word of mouth is their biggest source of advertising.

Unsure about the dealers advice, start a new thread and ask here.

atl999

After much deliberation and search all over on the internet, settled for PARASOUND HCA-1200 Stereo power amp. Hope this will be a good combination for my new A9s. Do I need to get any special wire to connect this amp to my Pioneer VSX-1120 avr?
Thanks all for your help in my upgrade experience.

JPete

Nice choice with the Parasound. Lot's of praise for those amps around here from what I've seen.

Looks like your Pioneer has a full set of pre-outs. You just need a good set of RCA interconnects from front channel pre-outs on the Pioneer to the inputs on the Parasound. Good speaker cable from Parasound to A9s and you're in business.

Hope it works out as you planned.

motorhead43026

Thumbs up on the 1200.

atl999

I didn't realize that my bid for an Adcom GFA 545 on eBay just won. Now I would have AdCom GFA545 and Parasound 1200.

So, any suggestion if I could use this Adcom as amp for my center - CSiA6? Question is that it would have two outputs- can I just connect into one output and leave the other one empty or do I need some kind of bridging?

F1nut

Pick the one that sounds best, sell the other.

tonyb

atl999 wrote: »

I didn't realize that my bid for an Adcom GFA 545 on eBay just won. Now I would have AdCom GFA545 and Parasound 1200.

So, any suggestion if I could use this Adcom as amp for my center - CSiA6? Question is that it would have two outputs- can I just connect into one output and leave the other one empty or do I need some kind of bridging?

You can leave the one output empty, essentially using it as a one channel amp. I'd try it both ways, with the adcom in the mix and without, but I believe the Parasound is the better amp and a keeper.

You do have a nice sub in the mix, and that takes a good chunk of heavy lifting off the speakers you have. I think you can get by with just one amp. However, we all have different preferences so see which you prefer, either one or both, sell one or keep both....really just a trial and error thing.

JPete

Or move the monitor 70s to the side surround position, put the 545 on those and see how some multi-channel music sounds... I like having floorstanders in side surround position. It doesn't make much difference on HT in my room, but definitely makes the multi-channel music a better experience for me.

gp4jesus

I concur w/rpg65's Jul 16th reply - especially the part about power & subs.

I'll paraphrase putting my 2 cent spin on it: you almost can't have too much quality power (check my sig) & DON'T compromise your sub.

Tony

atl999

Thanks gp4jesus. I am thinking of upgrading my sub also at some point but was more inclined to upgrade to 7.2 and add one more rear sub so that it fills my entire big room - particularly closer to where we sit. However, that is additional $$ for a new avr and obviously a new sub. Before moving to that, I wanted to experiment with new A9s and Parasound amp. So that has to wait for now (no budget left )

Meanwhile, I just completed the new set up with Parasound + A9s. So far I am impressed with sound quality. Honestly, not sure whether speaker or external amp or both are contributing to the improvement.

I have two more amps coming from eBay - Adcom 545 and B&K 4420 (call it my good fortune or lack of bidding on eBay- I ended up winning all three eventually!).

Now that I will have all there coming to me, I will experiment all of them with A9s on L/R, mix and match to use them for the center, surround - much like what I notice that you have also powered each of your speakers with separate amps, how is your experience with this? Also, did you run MCACC or similar calibration for your AVR each time you put new Amp?

How is your assessment on Biamping? Did you experience substantial improvement? I mean to ask whether is it worth spending effort on?

gp4jesus

atl999 wrote: »

...more inclined to upgrade to 7.2

I could be wrong, some one chime in here - I think ".2" is just 2 sub outs*. That is, you could do that with a Y connector.

atl999 wrote: »

and add a rear sub so that it fills my entire big room - particularly closer to where we sit.

2 subs will certainly do it better than one however, if the above* is correct, both subs will be "set" (in your AVR/prepro) to the same distance from the "hot seat" but placed differently - their respective outputs to arrive at slightly different times potentially partially canceling each other.

atl999 wrote: »

However, that is additional $$ for a new avr and obviously a new sub. Before moving to that, I wanted to experiment with new A9s and Parasound amp.

Hey, experiment away - I did!

atl999 wrote: »

So that has to wait for now (no budget left )

Works for me!

atl999 wrote: »

I just completed the new set up with Parasound + A9s. So far I am impressed with sound quality. Honestly, not sure whether speaker or external amp or both are contributing to the improvement.

Both I'm sure. Like the '7s, only more so, the '9s like quality power and lots of it. Belles Series 1, a fairly stout, high current, measly 100 WPC amp full range lifted my (then) open floor plan house off the foundation!

atl999 wrote: »

I have two more amps coming - Adcom 545 and B&K 4420. I will experiment on L/R, mix and match to use them for the center, surround

I've not heard any of those amps. My $ is on the B&K followed by P'sound for your LR. However if you allow your sub to handle the bottom end, your LR may be less demanding.

atl999 wrote: »

I notice[d] that you have powered each of your speakers with separate amps. How is your experience with this?

A worthwhile headache to set up - unrestricted dynamics @ any volume setting the payoff. I still have work to complete. Passive filters to remove, EXOs, amps, & chamber dividers to add not to mention a bigger, "badder" sub - either SVS or HSU. When finished, the fruit: 2-3X more power, less distortion, and more extended bottom end.

atl999 wrote: »

Also, did you run MCACC* or similar calibration* for your AVR each time you put new Amp?

None of my pre/pros came w/that*. I use a Behringer DEQ2496 for RTA together w/my pre/pro pink noise generator to "baseline" the drivers to each other, sub to the system, etc. When I add or change an amp, the trick is "one channel at a time."

atl999 wrote: »

How is your assessment on Biamping*?

I hafta include tri-amping* before I go further on behalf of my LCR end result. People have written books on those subjects. For me it addressed popping mids listening to say Donald Fagen or Steely Dan, full range w/out a sub. The RTi A7 mid has 2 challenges that bi-amping helps:
1. NO high pass filter - 4 ohm load below 125 hz. I can't say about the '9.
2. shares space w/the woofers, unlike the '9 w/its separate mid chamber. See chamber divider comment above.

atl999 wrote: »

Did you experience substantial improvement?

No more popping mid! That said, what's good w/out a sub is better w/a sub.

atl999 wrote: »

I mean to ask whether is it worth spending [$$ and] effort on?

Yes! However I recommend you finish what you started first. 2 things make them* easy (for me):
1. experience - not my first rodeo, both home (2 ch & HT) and auto.
2. I already had most of the equipment.

I have to leave you now to take one kid to work and 6 others to the community pool.

Tony

mikeyb128

Depends on the receiver or pre. Pioneer and Marantz will set distances and levels independently for each sub. It would make zero sense to have two subs on a pre or receiver only for the bass to "cancel
Out."

atl999

gp4jesus wrote: »

atl999 wrote: »

...more inclined to upgrade to 7.2

I could be wrong, someone chime in here - I think ".2" is just 2 sub outs*. That is, you could do that with a Y connector.

gp4jesus wrote: »

2 subs will certainly do it better than one however, if the above* is correct, both subs will be "set" (in your AVR/prepro) to the same distance from the "hot seat" but placed differently - their respective outputs to arrive at slightly different times potentially partially canceling each other.

I agree and learning from you all. You are right, two subs from the same AVR is not a good idea.

gp4jesus wrote: »

atl999 wrote: »

I have two more amps coming - Adcom 545 and B&K 4420. I will experiment on L/R, mix and match to use them for the center, surround

I've not heard any of those amps. My $ is on the B&K followed by P'sound for your LR. However if you allow your sub to handle the bottom end, your LR may be less demanding.

I am still waiting for my other two Amps - Adcom and B&K to come one of these days- meanwhile tried to play around with Parasound. So far very happy. Will try with other two Amps also and update.

Thanks a lot all for your advises, it has been a very enjoyable journey so far.

gmcman

Can you possibly make a rough sketch of your room layout? Sounds like you have a good distance for your speakers to work but maybe lacking in power. Where are your speakers in relation to the walls, seating position etc.

gp4jesus

An addendum. I forgot as part of my mods & upgrades: binding posts - upgrading existing and add'l.

And... Rti A* series speakers "like" Parasound's "warm**" sound. That** balances their* top end. Also, as your '9s break in, they'll soften a bit along w/the bass "coming out more to play."

I see my internal speaker work caught your fancy. Anyone handy w/ soldering iron should start inside their speakers. In there you'll enjoy far greater SQ improvement at much lower $.

For example:
1. Heavier internal wire mid & woofer (12ga) will "warm up" the frequency response.
2. Cap upgrades, $10-$20 per speaker will do more to tame brightness, the RTi A series biggest complaint. $5-$20 (Parts Express) and your time!

Gotta go. Hafta PU my 16 from work.

Tony

atl999

gmcman wrote: »

Can you possibly make a rough sketch of your room layout? Sounds like you have a good distance for your speakers to work but maybe lacking in power. Where are your speakers in relation to the walls, seating position etc.

Here is what I could draw for my home theater layout. It is in my basement and I tried to keep the long hall as open as possible so that we could play pool, enjoy the bar and watch movies on the other end. However there are downsides of such open concepts and I am trying to work on improving the sound quality. I have put multiple- nearly 12 accoustic panels on the wall.

atl999

tonyb wrote: »

atl999 wrote: »

I didn't realize that my bid for an Adcom GFA 545 on eBay just won. Now I would have AdCom GFA545 and Parasound 1200.

So, any suggestion if I could use this Adcom as amp for my center - CSiA6? Question is that it would have two outputs- can I just connect into one output and leave the other one empty or do I need some kind of bridging?

You can leave the one output empty, essentially using it as a one channel amp. I'd try it both ways, with the adcom in the mix and without, but I believe the Parasound is the better amp and a keeper.

Could someone tell me on how to connect my center preout to an amplifier? It has only one out and the amps have two inputs.

gp4jesus

Pick one channel & run w/it