Classe M600 vs Mcintosh 601
Joey_V
Posts: 8,552
This will be just a quick review, but I wanted to log my thoughts so atleast I could reference to this some time later when my memory becomes foggy.
I went to my dealer and brought my Classe M600 monoblocks to compare to the Mcintosh 601 monoblocks. I thought it was a fair comparison on a system that I was pretty familiar with.
We ran the Mcintosh 550 CD Player into the MC52 preamp into each of the monoblocks and then into the BW 802D3. We used Audioquest NRG4 power cables, AQ IC (I forget which), and AQ Oak speaker wires.
There were 3 of us there, so we took turns listening and listened to a variety of music.
Introduction:
The Classe M600 and the Mcintosh are well matched. Both operate at 600w into 8ohm, the Macs function with autoformers so it is a stagnant 600w into any load, there are variable taps in the back of the amp where you plug in the speaker wires depending on the nominal impedance of the speaker you are wanting to drive. The Classe M600 are your typical amplifier with increasing power output as the impedance drops... 600w into 8, 1200w into 4, etc.
Build:
Both are built extremely well. To put a Rotel or Parasound next to either just amplifies (no pun intended) the difference in the build and casing of the top shelf amps against the lower hi-fi amps. To rap your knuckle against the casing of either the Mac or Classe, you can tell that some thought has gone into the design and the overall feel of these top shelf amps.
Listening:
Honestly I did not know which would sound better, so we just went ahead and plugged either one and started listening. We took turns and ran through some CDs, we'd usually listen to the whole track because both sounded so good.
Sound:
The overall consensus was this -
Classe M600
- More dynamic
- Better bass
- Sharper edges of detail
- Slightly live-lier sound than the Mac.
- Imaging of the voice was more "raw"
- Staging of the vocalist was surprisingly not as forward.
Mcintosh 601
- Not as dynamic, slight slurring of transients, especially heard with the presence of high hats, etc.
- Bass was not as present, but warmer overall feel
- Detail was there, but you can tell, it was rounder. Images especially gave a sense that it was more "analog" for lack of a better term.
- Imaging of voice was more "pleasant"
- The sound was less "live" relative to the Classe. If you were to compare, it was like a small jazz club at a nice venue, whereas the Classe was like a party happening.
- Smoother edges of imaging.
- Staging of mid-stage/middle vocalist was presented in a more forward position than on the Classe.
- Imaging was very good
Conclusion:
I was very surprised to hear that the Mcintosh 601 presented the vocalist in a very forward manner, with the voice image at the appropriate height, and with good amount of air around the instruments. I thought the warmer presentation of the Mac was a welcome change for the lively 802D3 speakers, so I thought that the roundness of the imaging, the roundness of the sound, and the more blunted edges of detail was a good match for the diamond-based D3 unit.
I was just taken a-back by the forward staging, it was not something I expected. You would expect a warmer amp or warmer component to present the stage slightly behind the speaker plane, but not the Mcintosh 601. We all agreed, the forward staging combined with the warmer sound but still filled with detail was a very good combo.
In the end, it was a split.
1 of us liked the Classe on the D3.
2 of us liked the Mac on the D3.
Overall, it was a good experience, it's not every day you get to hear 2 juggernauts in the same room, in the same system, under similar circumstances.
Now I have a good idea of what's what.
I went to my dealer and brought my Classe M600 monoblocks to compare to the Mcintosh 601 monoblocks. I thought it was a fair comparison on a system that I was pretty familiar with.
We ran the Mcintosh 550 CD Player into the MC52 preamp into each of the monoblocks and then into the BW 802D3. We used Audioquest NRG4 power cables, AQ IC (I forget which), and AQ Oak speaker wires.
There were 3 of us there, so we took turns listening and listened to a variety of music.
Introduction:
The Classe M600 and the Mcintosh are well matched. Both operate at 600w into 8ohm, the Macs function with autoformers so it is a stagnant 600w into any load, there are variable taps in the back of the amp where you plug in the speaker wires depending on the nominal impedance of the speaker you are wanting to drive. The Classe M600 are your typical amplifier with increasing power output as the impedance drops... 600w into 8, 1200w into 4, etc.
Build:
Both are built extremely well. To put a Rotel or Parasound next to either just amplifies (no pun intended) the difference in the build and casing of the top shelf amps against the lower hi-fi amps. To rap your knuckle against the casing of either the Mac or Classe, you can tell that some thought has gone into the design and the overall feel of these top shelf amps.
Listening:
Honestly I did not know which would sound better, so we just went ahead and plugged either one and started listening. We took turns and ran through some CDs, we'd usually listen to the whole track because both sounded so good.
Sound:
The overall consensus was this -
Classe M600
- More dynamic
- Better bass
- Sharper edges of detail
- Slightly live-lier sound than the Mac.
- Imaging of the voice was more "raw"
- Staging of the vocalist was surprisingly not as forward.
Mcintosh 601
- Not as dynamic, slight slurring of transients, especially heard with the presence of high hats, etc.
- Bass was not as present, but warmer overall feel
- Detail was there, but you can tell, it was rounder. Images especially gave a sense that it was more "analog" for lack of a better term.
- Imaging of voice was more "pleasant"
- The sound was less "live" relative to the Classe. If you were to compare, it was like a small jazz club at a nice venue, whereas the Classe was like a party happening.
- Smoother edges of imaging.
- Staging of mid-stage/middle vocalist was presented in a more forward position than on the Classe.
- Imaging was very good
Conclusion:
I was very surprised to hear that the Mcintosh 601 presented the vocalist in a very forward manner, with the voice image at the appropriate height, and with good amount of air around the instruments. I thought the warmer presentation of the Mac was a welcome change for the lively 802D3 speakers, so I thought that the roundness of the imaging, the roundness of the sound, and the more blunted edges of detail was a good match for the diamond-based D3 unit.
I was just taken a-back by the forward staging, it was not something I expected. You would expect a warmer amp or warmer component to present the stage slightly behind the speaker plane, but not the Mcintosh 601. We all agreed, the forward staging combined with the warmer sound but still filled with detail was a very good combo.
In the end, it was a split.
1 of us liked the Classe on the D3.
2 of us liked the Mac on the D3.
Overall, it was a good experience, it's not every day you get to hear 2 juggernauts in the same room, in the same system, under similar circumstances.
Now I have a good idea of what's what.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
Comments
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Here is a picture.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
which did you prefer?Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
Puritan PSM156 -
Thanks, @Joey_V. I guess I can cross out the mc601 from my wish list for the c4.
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I actually preferred the Mac 601 Marvin. Sometimes, it's not about hearing everything a system can present but rather the ability to simply enjoy the music.
Why is that Brian? hahaMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
I prefer livelier sound amp with the c4
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I think Ayre would sound great with Dynaudio.Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
Puritan PSM156 -
Nice honest review. While I was not at your listening party, I did listen to a few amps before I went with my mc402. While it is still below the model you listened to, the "house sound" is close to the 601's. Its all personal preference. I thought it was musical sounding. Just something pleasing about the sound.Post edited by erniejade onKlipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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Thank you, @Joey_V, for your very interesting and informative review.
It is not often that anybody gets the kind of opportunity you had, and it is great to read about it.Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.
Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One. -
Mcintosh has never been my thing but everytime I pull out electrostats its the first gear brand I run to. I have the cary slp05 running with my Mcintosh through a pair of cls2z and the panels are fresh, love it!
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Thanks. Just wanted to share.
Definitely new found respect for the Big Macs. Now I see why they have a good following.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
I see Mac's in Joey's future.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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back in the day doctors and lawyers owned macs, joey is just following a long line
Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
Puritan PSM156 -
Joey - that looks like the showroom over at Magnolia. I have never had much luck with system setup in those show rooms. Last time I was in they had the D3's bi-wired. The Lows were connected to the 4 ohm tap and the highs were connected to the 8 ohm tap on the M601's. They also had one M601 connected directly to the wall, for power, and the other into a furman 15pfi. Placement and reflections have also been a problem.
I hope you have had better luck with them then I have. They wanted to sell me a pair of M601's, demos, when I was in the market but after seeing how they treated them the only way I would have purchased from them would have been new in the box.Post edited by tratliff on2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables -
Either amp would be a great own. I just happen to like McIntoch amps and pres. Thanks Joey for posting. I have a MAC6700 with my B&W speakers and C2300 pre and MC452 with my Sonus fabers. They are both enjoyable systems.[
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Did someone say Mac monobocks? Here's a pic from a couple weeks back when I swapped out a pair of 2100's for my 2500's. It was a fun comparison but I did go back to the 2500's after a few days of comparing the 2 pair
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Oh...I can see a lot of things happening in Joey's futures. Big MAC, Small MAC; etc.
Motorstereo, Nice Rig! MC2500 are a real powerhouse and it's like MAC mustang at one time.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Joey - that looks like the showroom over at Magnolia. I have never had much luck with system setup in those show rooms. Last time I was in they had the D3's bi-wired. The Lows were connected to the 4 ohm tap and the highs were connected to the 8 ohm tap on the M601's. They also had one M601 connected directly to the wall, for power, and the other into a furman 15pfi. Placement and reflections have also been a problem.
I hope you have had better luck with them then I have. They wanted to sell me a pair of M601's, demos, when I was in the market but after seeing how they treated them the only way I would have purchased from them would have been new in the box.
These guys set it up right. I was there. They like me there and let me do what I want. I move systems and soeakers and unplug things. I take home amps and they have loaned me wires.
Guess that's what happens when they want you to buy.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Oh...I can see a lot of things happening in Joey's futures. Big MAC, Small MAC; etc.
Motorstereo, Nice Rig! MC2500 are a real powerhouse and it's like MAC mustang at one time.
LolMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
back in the day doctors and lawyers owned macs, joey is just following a long line
LolMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Joey, those big blue meters will Hyo-No-Tize you into spending copious amounts of money. I started with a used C2200 and now I still want more.[
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Joey - that looks like the showroom over at Magnolia. I have never had much luck with system setup in those show rooms. Last time I was in they had the D3's bi-wired. The Lows were connected to the 4 ohm tap and the highs were connected to the 8 ohm tap on the M601's. They also had one M601 connected directly to the wall, for power, and the other into a furman 15pfi. Placement and reflections have also been a problem.
I hope you have had better luck with them then I have. They wanted to sell me a pair of M601's, demos, when I was in the market but after seeing how they treated them the only way I would have purchased from them would have been new in the box.
These guys set it up right. I was there. They like me there and let me do what I want. I move systems and soeakers and unplug things. I take home amps and they have loaned me wires.
Guess that's what happens when they want you to buy.
That's awesome. I might need your help when I want to demo more gear they have.
2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables -
Thanks for the great review. Interestingly, when I purchased my Mac stuff
I ended up liking a single amp over the mono blocks. It seemed to have faster transient response to me. I've heard Classe stuff and it too sounds great. Either amp is a winner, and I love my Mac stuff.
While in Nashville this weekend I also listened to the new B&W's and STILL can't get around their tweeter! I did fall in love with a pair of Revels that may be mine
In the near future, however. -
Motorstereo dude, my god not only 2x 2100s the industrial version of the famous 2105 model w/ the meters,pan loc and cabinet w/ the same 105 per channel. If that wasn't enough 2x 2500s @ 500 a side conservatively and in black face my preferred color unlike the silver faced tone of the 2300s. Most here know I have a hard on just looking at this stuff and well I can't go into detail what this picture is doing to me. Throw in the SRS and there is a high end system w/ no argument from many people. What's to argue ? Boy can I dream and get carried away !!!
Oh, and yes the most famous den professional's system was a McIntosh 2105, MX 117 tuner, Dual 1229 tt and the requisite AR-3A for speakers.2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E
H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-
Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc -
I ran a 2105 on my old 1.2 until I changed it for a sunfire sig 625x2. Both were a good comboKlipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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leftwinger57 wrote: »Motorstereo dude, my god not only 2x 2100s the industrial version of the famous 2105 model w/ the meters,pan loc and cabinet w/ the same 105 per channel. If that wasn't enough 2x 2500s @ 500 a side conservatively and in black face my preferred color unlike the silver faced tone of the 2300s. Most here know I have a hard on just looking at this stuff and well I can't go into detail what this picture is doing to me. Throw in the SRS and there is a high end system w/ no argument from many people. What's to argue ? Boy can I dream and get carried away !!!
Oh, and yes the most famous den professional's system was a McIntosh 2105, MX 117 tuner, Dual 1229 tt and the requisite AR-3A for speakers.
Thanks leftwinger. I didn't want to hijack Joey's thread about his Mac vs. Classe comparison. What a great write up and thanks Joey.
Yes those strapped 2500's are supplying each of those 1.2tl's with over 1000 Mcwatts. The 2100's surprised me and held their own against the 2500's early on. It took a bit of listening before I noticed that there's a bass and treble hump in the 2100's which initially made them sound more appealing. Long term not so much as I like to run my polks completely flat. I added the 2nd 2500 about 6 months ago and I've been quite pleased with the upgrade it's provided.
One advantage that gets overlooked with monoblocking in addition to more wpc is the ability to use speaker cables that are measured in inches rather than feet. Each amp is near their speaker rather than sitting in middle of the soundstage with several feet of speaker cable running to each speaker. -
Now that Joey's cherry is popped on cables, maybe he should revisit those Cary mono's he cut loose.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Now that Joey's cherry is popped on cables, maybe he should revisit those Cary mono's he cut loose.
No reasons to unless those Cary monos got possessed by a ghost or something. lolTrying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
