New Tubes in The House
Faustin
Posts: 1,149
I have been looking around for a new 2 channel tube amp since I sold my Silk Audio MC100 a couple of months ago. The Silk amp was a nice entry level amp, but in my opinion it did not drive my SDA 1C's the way I wanted. The bass was a bit flubby and the speakers really did not up the way they did with a 200 watt / channel ss Adcom. And it is not about the volume, because yes the Silk would get them loud......but something was missing. I tried an older Jolida JD-1000A for a few weeks. Nice tube sound, but something was missing. There was no detail or dynamics unless I turned the volume up to 11 or 12 o'clock. Less than that instruments and details in the vocals were missing. I really tried to convince myself that it was just me. Finally decided to return the amp before the 30 day return policy expired. I asked them if they had anything else that may interest me. After looking at a few options I told the sales guy I really wanted to try a Rogue Cronus Magnum. Lo and behold he had a Cronus Magnum II that some one had bought and returned it a few days later because he wanted the silver face plate instead of the black one. We dickered over the price for a while and finally made the deal. After getting it home and hooking it up to the 1c's, it only took about 30 seconds to decide "this is it"! The bass is fast and tight. The details and dynamics across the board are wonderful. The interesting thing is that I don't think this amp is even burned in. I am going to play it for a couple of months and then maybe mess around with some tube rolling. The KT120's are very easy to bias. The one negative thing that I had read and can confirm is that changing the speaker inputs from 8 ohm to 4 ohm is a pita. 16 screws to remove the cover and a battle to get at and remove the 1/2 nut from the binding post to swap wires. I know Rogue is probably trying to keep the costs down, but I don't think it is not going to cost that much more to drill 2 more holes and add a couple of binding posts. All in all I am very happy with the new addition.
Comments
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Sweet piece!
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
man that's purdy!VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
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Rogue+SDAs=Magic! Congrats!
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Very Awesome...My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160
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Pssst.......I got some tubes for you to roll!
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
hey there is a guy on this 4m selling 12**7 tubes you might need some of those....hint,hint
those are nice pieces of gear the rogue's that is -
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I heard H9 has some kinda tubes lying around.
Dead sexy amp! Congrats -
Pssst.......I got some tubes for you to roll!
H9
...Ahh The Pusher
Congrats on the Rogue!2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
Yes she is purdy and sounds better than she looks. Hey H9, might take you up on some tubes. I have a fair slug of nos 12ax7 and 12au7 that I began hoarding in the last year. Have a pair of Mullard 12ax7 that were labeled for one of the organ manufacturers. Can't remember which one at this point, and others. It has reissue tungsol kt120's that I will probably use for now. Anyway, after a couple of lesser tube amps, ss amps, ss pre, tube pre, I am really, really happy the way the SDA's sound.
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Looks like a super nice piece, love seeing those tubes out in the open. And I love tubes, I'm turning into one of those tube w hores that talks about, and annoys everyone about tubes. Congrats on your new purchase.2 channel:
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Theater:
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Many congrats on your new Cronus! I ran the original Magnum version in my rig for over three years, the Cronus and the 1C's are truly a match made in Heaven.
I upped my game a little (or so I thought) and sold the Cronus and replaced it with a pair of M-180 Monoblocks and a Perseus preamp, while this pairing is a very good combo, it's really doesn't better the Cronus by much...at all.
The Cronus has to be one of Audio's best values, you did well! N'joy -
That's a great looking integrated! Congrats man!
If it sounds good as is, I'd let it be, unless something is really gnawing at you / you feel something is missing in the sound. Based on your description, you're a happy camper! Enjoy!Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10 -
When there's tubes, there's always room to up the ante., especially if they are current production tubes. Power tubes are pretty darn good these days and using vintage power tubes is a HUGE expense for not a lot of gain.
Signal tubes on the other hand.............well let's just say in most cases they are transforming when you compare the new to the old.
As an aside this article explains in depth why tubes of today will never equal tubes of yesterday. Starting on pp 14. Really breaks it down.
https://web.archive.org/web/20131122142039/http://www.jumpjet.info/Pioneering-Wireless/eMagazines/VTV/VTV19.pdf
H9
P.s. The above article is a bit older and strides certainly have been made, but in general, what they say is true about materials, costs, craftsmanship and attention to detail and low cost being the driver."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
https://web.archive.org/web/20131122142039/http://www.jumpjet.info/Pioneering-Wireless/eMagazines/VTV/VTV19.pdf
^^^^^^^ Interesting info Brock. I will try some other tubes at some point.I have to say though, this amp coupled to the 1c's is very sweet. Listening to Florence and The Machine Unplugged as I sit working on my computer. I think I am going to be very content for quite some time. -
Faustin, If you want to play with the tone of your Cronus some day, you only need to roll in 1 tube in the preamp slot, it has as much control over the sound as any of the rest of the small signal tubes.
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Mike Reeter wrote: »Faustin, If you want to play with the tone of your Cronus some day, you only need to roll in 1 tube in the preamp slot, it has as much control over the sound as any of the rest of the small signal tubes.
Interesting Mike. Which tube / slot are you referring to? -
Mike Reeter wrote: »Faustin, If you want to play with the tone of your Cronus some day, you only need to roll in 1 tube in the preamp slot, it has as much control over the sound as any of the rest of the small signal tubes.
A. that means all the other tubes also have the same effect
B. meaning you could replace any other single tube.
H9
P.s. Just busting your balls a little
Do tell
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Rolling tubes never did anything for me but when I plugged them in, now that when they really sang!2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
Mike Reeter wrote: »Faustin, If you want to play with the tone of your Cronus some day, you only need to roll in 1 tube in the preamp slot, it has as much control over the sound as any of the rest of the small signal tubes.
Interesting Mike. Which tube / slot are you referring to?
The center AU7 spot, the other two AU7 & AX7 spots are the input/output drivers.
Did you receive a manual with the Cronus?
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Mike Reeter wrote: »Mike Reeter wrote: »Faustin, If you want to play with the tone of your Cronus some day, you only need to roll in 1 tube in the preamp slot, it has as much control over the sound as any of the rest of the small signal tubes.
Interesting Mike. Which tube / slot are you referring to?
The center AU7 spot, the other two AU7 & AX7 spots are the input/output drivers.
Did you receive a manual with the Cronus?
Hey Mike. I did receive a manual with the amp. Thanks for your suggestion! -
Mike Reeter wrote: »Mike Reeter wrote: »Faustin, If you want to play with the tone of your Cronus some day, you only need to roll in 1 tube in the preamp slot, it has as much control over the sound as any of the rest of the small signal tubes.
Interesting Mike. Which tube / slot are you referring to?
The center AU7 spot, the other two AU7 & AX7 spots are the input/output drivers.
Did you receive a manual with the Cronus?
Hey Mike. I did receive a manual with the amp. Thanks for your suggestion!
That's good, I'm pretty sure the preamp spot is mentioned in the manual...the stock small signal tubes are just some Chinese junk, JJ's on something like that.
Once the new wears off them, roll in some good ole NOS tubes! N'joy
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Is it the preamp section or the KT88 to 120 change that you are hearing?HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable
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Hey Faustin are sure you wouldn't want to trade for my MC100B?
Keep me posted on the new Amplifier as you got me smiling for ya! Enjoy.2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
Hey Mike, yes I did check the manual and see that the middle 12au7 is the pre amp tube. Did some research and it does seem that people agree that is the tube to be concerned with. I have a 6 or 7 nos RCA 12au7a's clear top, black plate, side getter from 1963. I will probably roll 3 in, since they are in stock. I have a bunch of 12ax7's to mess with as well.
Dennis. I did not change the power tubes. It came with kt120's. Overall I have to say that the stock tubes in general sound pretty darn good. Especially compared to the Jolida with EL34 tubes. It was just blahhhhhh.
Voltz - Of course I am up for a trade......Rogue for the MC100B. I am in. Oh wait, my wife is looking over my shoulder and she says "Ain't happening". She even spent some time over the weekend explaining the SDA's and the Rogue to an old friend that was by for a visit. Sorry. I tried. But seriously, if you have the opportunity to move up the ladder, you will see what I mean. The MC100B is a nice amp, but SDA's really come to life with the additional power.
