ELAC Uni-Fi - UF5 or UB5?

madmax

My order on amazon still says "Release date: Saturday, April 30, 2016 "

lightman1

txcoastal1 wrote: »

Nightfall wrote: »

codaaudiovideo wrote: »

well when you mix paypal and slush funds in one sentence.... in my own defense. I hope you see where I would be coming from

You can't be serious.

Craig, the delay gives you time to pick out some stands to go with your new cartel funded purchase.

I thought Craig was the upper Manhattan type more like a Bernie Made-Off.

Naah. He lives in a shanty on the beach. Less conspicuous. Yet still funnels his "slush(ie)" fund to an offshore.
But he's a good kid either way.

halo

madmax wrote: »

My order on amazon still says "Release date: Saturday, April 30, 2016 "

I just looked and Amazon has pushed it back to May 30th.

madmax

Yeah, I see it changed. They will get to the states when they get here... I'm anxious to put them up against the KEF LS50s to see how they do.

Polkie2009

I'm seriously interested in how those Uni-Fi UB5's sound compared to Polk LSi9's.

msg

madmax wrote: »

Yeah, I see it changed. They will get to the states when they get here... I'm anxious to put them up against the KEF LS50s to see how they do.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this comparison. I hear good things about those KEF's. Need design, the concentric idea.

dag, guys - so your orders are confirmed to be set back again?

madmax

I really like the KEFs, full of detail and sound absolutely amazing in a small room. They also totally disappear and have a huge soundstage. Well worth the asking price of $1500.

halo

I just got a notice from ELAC that the UC5 is now available for shipping so, of course, I placed my order. If you really want to get your hands on a pair of the UniFi speakers, I suppose you could order two of the UC5 speakers.

madmax

I would if I knew I were going to do an HT setup later, but I doubt I would.

halo

The UC5 early release date was a glitch. May 17th is the official projected release date.

halo

I was listening to the RC10 bookshelf speakers and I decided to play some of the same songs that Andrew Jones played during the UB5 demo at the AXPONA exhibition.

Surprisingly, the RC10 speakers sound pretty darn good.

Then a thought occurred to me; Andrew was clearly playing music that showcases the strengths of the UB5, not its weaknesses.

For example, I played Hotel California (live) by the Eagles and there was a significant difference in the sound between the RC70 floorstanding speakers and the RC10 bookshelf speakers. The RC70 dug a lot deeper but the bass pools up in the farthest corner from the speakers. That said, there's still more impact from the RC70 speakers.

However, when listening to the RC10 speakers, the sound was uniform no matter where I was in the room or the apartment. In other rooms of the apartment, the bass was more noticeable from the RC70 speakers.

In near field listening, the RC10 sound great but they're missing the bottom end and maybe some details in the midrange compared to the RC70. FYI: the RC10 is a two-way bookshelf with a 1" aluminum dome tweeter and a 5 1/4" woofer in a ported cabinet. In contrast, the RC70 is a three-way speaker with the same tweeter as the RC10 but the 5 1/4" woofer is utilized as a midrange driver and two 6 1/2" woofers handle the upper bass and lower bass, respectively.

So, does this mean that the bookshelf speakers are better suited to my listening room or are the floorstanding speakers in need of bass traps?

Going back to my original question of which ELAC speaker would be better I'm wondering if it would be the floorstanding UF5 because they dig deeper than the UB5 but not as deep as the RC70 (on paper anyway).

Also, the drivers on the ELAC UB5 were visibly moving during the demo at just over 80 db. The drivers on the Energy RC10 are hardly moving at all at the same levels while playing the same material. Does that mean that the Energy speakers can play louder?

madmax

Its all a series of tradeoffs until the men in white coats cart you off.

My guess is the driver movement vs output volume is more a function of amplifier damping factor and room size.

I would also guess uniform sound of the bookshelf is telling you something good but I don't know why it would be more uniform.

What size room do you have them in?

halo

@madmax The living room is pretty big. I measured it before we moved in but I've no idea what the measurements are now so I'll have to beak out the tape measure.

The living room opens into a kitchenette on the back left side (this is where the bass from the towers pools up most noticeably).

The front right of the living room opens to a small hallway.

There are no doors in the room, itself.

The ceilings are 8'

The width of the room is 15'. The length of the hallway is 6' and it's 3 1/2' wide.

The depth at the closest wall is 13' before opening into the kitchenette. The depth is 18' at the farthest wall of the kitchenette. However, the back wall of the kitchenette is at an angle, it's built that way so it's 18' at its deepest point and 17' at the most shallow.

The stereo is on the wall that opens to the hallway with the speakers firing in the direction of the kitchenette.

madmax

So 15' x20' or so with some open areas? That is too large for the KEF LS50 which uses a 5" woofer. You may be ok since the bass driver of the elac is a dedicated bass driver. Still, a pretty large room. How does your room size compare with where you auditioned them? If similar I wouldn't worry about it.

My Schiit Ragnarok integrated just got a raving reivew on Stereophile (best sound I've heard in the 21st century) when paired up with the KEFs, I'm hoping it will do the same things with the new ELACs, similar design, just larger.

halo

Are the KEF speakers as inefficient as the ELAC speakers?

The Energy RC10 do a very good job of filling the room with sound but they simply aren't capable of deep bass reproduction; it's a bookshelf after all.

I would need bass traps or acoustic panels to tame the bass put out by the RC70 floorstanding speakers as it pools up in the back of the room but the bookshelf speakers have an even distribution of bass throughout the room (I just want more of it).

The Energy RC10 is rated from 50 Hz - 23 kHz.

The ELAC UB5 is rated from 46 Hz - 25 kHz

The Energy RC70 is rated from 31 Hz - 23 kHz

The ELAC UF5 is rated from 42 Hz - 25 kHz

Based on the measured frequency responses given by the manufacturers, I am wondering if the UF5 will hit the mark in my room without me needing to purchase acoustic treatments for the room. I mean, I'm in an apartment and I can't say how much longer we'll be living here or what the next apartment will be like.

halo

Energy provides a typical "in room response" which has the RC10 going down to 42 Hz and the RC70 going down to 26 Hz.

madmax

One reason I'm liking bookshelfs so much lately: So you have bass response and the response is tweaked by position, then you have soundstage and the soundstage is tweaked by position. Are these two parameters ever tweaked to their finest in the same position? Has never happened for me. If the bass is not tweaked is there much difference between a bookshelf and a floorstander? Not much. To get the best of both worlds a small sub would be in order for me. But I'm usually happy with the bass I do get after tweaking the soundstage.

halo

madmax wrote: »

One reason I'm liking bookshelfs so much lately: So you have bass response and the response is tweaked by position, then you have soundstage and the soundstage is tweaked by position. Are these two parameters ever tweaked to their finest in the same position? Has never happened for me. If the bass is not tweaked is there much difference between a bookshelf and a floorstander? Not much. To get the best of both worlds a small sub would be in order for me. But I'm usually happy with the bass I do get after tweaking the soundstage.

Are you referring to the distance from the back wall to tweak bass response? Toe-in or toe-out for soundstage? Have you ever tried acoustic panels or bass traps?

madmax

Position relative to side and back walls, toe in/out, seating position. I've only tried big fluffy pillows, rugs etc at various positions but plan on trying some real room treatments soon.

msg

When are these janks due to arrive? I'm getting sick of waiting on you guys.

halo

msg wrote: »

When are these janks due to arrive? I'm getting sick of waiting on you guys.

Release date from ELAC is May 17th. Release date from Amazon.com is May 30th.

My preorder is through ELAC. I believe Max is getting his through Amazon.

halo

DSkip wrote: »

Listen to a true full range speaker and it'll be hard to go back to monitors. I can live with a bookie that dives to 40 hz, but I always focus on what I'm missing below that. Problem is that a good monitor requires a good sub... Then you're in the same ballpark as a good floor stander. YMMV

I agree and I've always found that a floorstanding speaker sounds better, to my ears, than trying to get a sub to blend in with the bookshelf speakers.

halo

Discolored Cone on the midrange available for purchase now or there's an 8-week wait for the color to be "UniForm."

msg

Halo - are yours shipping or delivering today?

halo

No. ELAC will be contacting people who placed the preorder through the ELAC website to ascertain whether or not they want the speaker with the discolored mid driver (at a discounted price) or if they want to wait (up to 8 weeks) for speakers with matching drivers.

To me, this does not give me confidence in the quality control department at ELAC.

These speakers shipped out and the mid driver and bass driver clearly don't match.

It's been one postponement after another.

I'm not unhappy with my Energy speakers.

I probably won't be purchasing these mismatched driver speakers unless there is a substantial discount (which I doubt there will be).

I'm sure the projected eight week window to fix the issue will drag out a lot longer, just like the initial release of the speakers.

Maybe something is trying to tell me that I'm good with what I've got and that the ELAC line isn't worth the wait...or maybe it is. I can't say until I have a pair here and see how they sound in my environment and in my set up after a comparison to my current speakers.

msg

I see. I agree, does seem to be one unfortunate disappointment after another.
Yeah, could be. I'd always wonder, as well, and like you, if paying full price, I'd want a proper product. Have to say, this is kinda BS. This stuff should all be QC'd at the factory, not as an afterthought at build/delivery time. Unfortunately, this sort of thing seems to be happening more and more often, and quality hiccups are becoming generally "acceptable", without apology or cost concession. Reminds me of the film Idiocracy.

halo

Well, it's a budget item to some and the most $ some can afford to spend. In the ELAC line, the Debut series is the "budget" speaker. The UniFi is supposed to be a step up from the Debut series. Does anyone know if the Debut series ran into similar issues upon its release?

msg

Sure, in the audio world $500 might be considered "budget", but it's still a good chunk of change, and regardless of price, it's still no excuse for poor quality control. To me, this is the mentality that's making poor quality acceptable - it's affordable so imperfection is to be expected? imho, that's just a lazy mindset, but that's just me. It's bleeding over into higher cost, supposedly higher quality product, too, not just in audio, but all over.

halo

I understand what you're saying guys and you're both right. This is a judgement call on the part of the buyer now.

Given that I'm on a budget and cannot afford super duper high end speakers, these were to be the centerpiece of my set up; grills off, looking sharp. This green driver takes away from that. How did they manage to get it right on the pre-production models and then end up with this? Wasn't there supposed to be someone on the production line looking at the product as it was assembled? How did no one catch this mistake?

Yes, Skip, great way to get good sound for even le$$.

I do, however, question their quality control. How do I know that the crossovers have been assembled properly? With the right parts? In the right order? What else is lacking in their build quality that I can't see? This flub up on the part of ELAC doesn't bolster my confidence in their ability to put out a quality product.

YMMV.

msg

No, of course not, and this doesn't really bother me that much either, but they should have been checked during production and along the way and the process corrected. It's just principle. Maybe they'll be offered as b-stock, but it doesn't sound like there's any concession for that yet, or is there? I may have missed that.

I've got plenty of blemmed stuff, and I freely accept it for the cost savings. Even the 705's I just got aren't perfect, but I got them half off so how can I complain? Just like you say, they work just fine; great, even. If I paid full price I'd be seriously perturbed at some of the fit and finish issues, and the hassle to resolution. Another member had performance problems with his order of same, and it took weeks to resolve.

If I ordered these Elacs I'd be past frustrated with these repeated delays, and now with fit/finish issues, probably at least considering scrapping the purchase. But like Halo, also on the fence, because ultimately, I'd still want to experience them, because they seem like a promising speaker. Given that I listen with grills on, this would be a non-issue, and I'd mostly forget about it after a while if I liked the speakers, but if grills off and at full price after delivery delays - it would probably gnaw at me.

I just had a closer look at the photo. I thought it was the casting mark he was talking about at first, up at the top of the gasket, but I see the discoloration now in the cone. Meh. Not a huge-huge deal to me given the way I'd use them, but may seem that way due to being another frustration in a cumulatively disappointing delivery experience, and that's a valid frustration.

This probably hits me more not so much specific to these speakers, but in general, because I'm becoming less tolerant of a general lack of accountability in poor quality unless you catch it and work for satisfactory resolution. Life's moving too fast. People are too distracted. Work ethic suffering.