No BS pre amp

Realistic

Keep the updates coming Russ and enjoy Dallas. My wife finally got to go see the cowboys, my daughter purchased tickets for her for Christmas.

txcoastal1

The only historical landmark Russ is going to see is Russmans big head

txcoastal1

Or should I say hysterical landmark

tonyb

Git the F outta here.....that's off the charts.

lightman1

Big whompus noggin!

gudnoyez

Hey Russ if your gonna be in the QCA soon, I just got off the phone with one of the guys off audiogon he has this Audio Force site, anyhow come to find out he lives right up.the road from me if you have not got something by then we can go demo some preamps if you like, he kept telling me about those pesky Elacs and that I got to hear them Andrew Jones new stuff from what he was telling me.It will be something to do.

lightman1

Sounds like a plan Steve. I'll be flying into DSM on Tuesday and heading to Davenport/Bettendorf on Wednesday. Looks like another two month gig. Then Dallas and Hawaii. Then back your way for another few weeks. Thanks for the invite!

Realistic

I hear ya Russ I was in a pretty good place after I purchased the p5 and then someone I wont mention any names, SKIP threw in a free power cable and all hell broke loose. Now I have to get one for the parasound amp, plus interconnects and speaker cable. Why wont the voices in my head stop... LOL.

Realistic

I have never seen anything like it, I laid it out on the floor and admired it for awhile like some kind of hot chic calendar. I know what your thinking, I need help...

Realistic

Going to look in the FS section now for used cables.

lightman1

Oh schittts! Bob has the disease already! Good group of Polk Folks here. Never steered me wrong. Gonna meet a couple more when I get back to Iowa.
Micah is coming over tomorrow to drop off the 7's. More good times, haven't seen him in years.
Keep on truckin'!

tonyb

lightman1 wrote: »

Oh schittts! Bob has the disease already! Good group of Polk Folks here. Never steered me wrong. Gonna meet a couple more when I get back to Iowa.
Micah is coming over tomorrow to drop off the 7's. More good times, haven't seen him in years.
Keep on truckin'!

Micah huh ?

Don't turn your back, he's a quick booger with a long reach. That's the word on the street anyway.

megasat16

lightman1 wrote: »

megasat16 wrote: »

Sorry Russ, No such things as No BS preamp!

Fair enough. Just something with less BS.
Where have you been hiding at? Long time no hear.

I am around. I wasn't allowed to retire from the Audio BS yet.

Anyway, I am thinking you might have remembered the name incorrectly because
I have never heard of no BS preamp. It could be a typo.

I have heard (not through my ears unfortunately) Bully Sound Preamp and Bhulley Sound Preamp.

http://sanjannagar.org/bhulley-audio-system/

http://www.bscaudio.com/mk3/productsL5.php

lightman1

Wellllll shoot! Now the DSpeaker sounds great with the 7b's.
Guess I'll keep it for craps ang giggles in a new 2ch set up. It's got a DAC for a streamer.
But still want something better for the big rig. Stay tuned.

heiney9

DSkip wrote: »

Conradicles wrote: »

I would want a remote in that price range!

Why? That's more in the way of the signal. Physical media requires you to get up anyways, and streaming includes volume so you can continue to sit on your lazy butt. Food for thought is all.

One must be careful because a streaming unit with a volume control is many times rudimentary, and in many cases will add noise and have tracking issues, and is not recommended. Better to have a nice remote volume in a preamp that was carefully designed around it, then to use the digital volume control from a streaming device.

Devices such as the Squeeze Touch sound much better with the vol, set to max and left alone and then modulating the sound via a pre-amp (remote or not).

Any volume choice from a computer is usually horrid!

So he is not being foolish wanting a remote pre-amp, as the good ones are very well implemented, much more so than most of the streaming programs/devices, etc.

Food for thought if you are looking for the best possible outcome.

H9

heiney9

DSkip wrote: »

I don't think that is as predominant as it used to be. I can't tell any difference in quality vs. using my preamp volume vs. streaming volume. If I heard a difference, trust me when I say I wouldn't use that method.

Actually many digital volumes are flawed and continue to be flawed. I'm sure Russ can decide for himself, but even on AVR's the digital volumes are hugely flawed, even on the flagship model. Many are very basic and inexpensive I/C circuits that are rife with issues.............of course it depends on what you expectations are and how much compromise you are willing to accept.

Take a look at how BAT implements it's digital volume controls. That's how it needs to be done to be done effectively and it ain't cheap.

H9

lightman1

Alrighty you two. Play nice. Let me just clarify a point for a new pre in the big rig. There will be NO streaming media presented to it. Just the CDP and MAYBE my TT down the road. Will use a TT amp before pre-amp. So no onboard TT pre needed.
Brock, you point on remote volume is noted, but if I get to the point of "I think I heard and small veil of noise when I turned up the volume".....
confiscate my gear and sell it on Craigslist. You keep the money.
It would be at that point I forgot about the music and was more worried about the noise being presented. Not worth it.
I like a remote, but not necessary.

mhardy6647

short of no (active) preamp, the BS-less-est preamp I can think of is probably this one...



Not much gain (6 dB, if memory serves) and the 3S4s tend to be microphonic (sometimes horribly so) and the output impedance is probably borderline astronomical... but there ain't much to go wrong with it.

I've heard one and thought it actually sounded pretty good driving my own amplifier & speakers.

Good enough that I... procured one. Need to build it someday :-P It's been sitting in a drawer for a little over a year, waitin' for the solder to flow...

http://bottlehead.com/product/quickie-1-1-battery-powered-directly-heated-tube-preamplifier-kit/

heiney9

Yes, I have heard it. It's not just "missing information". Like I said read up on how B.A.T and some of the other higher end companies implement their digital volume controls. It makes a difference.

Again, it depends on how much and where you want to compromise. Using a steaming devices digital volume control is a big compromise, IMO.

I'll take an analog, motorized volume control on a well designed pre-amp every time over a digitally controlled volume of a streaming device/computer device.

Everything matters.

H9

P.s you are entitled to your opinion.

heiney9

lightman1 wrote: »

Alrighty you two. Play nice. Let me just clarify a point for a new pre in the big rig. There will be NO streaming media presented to it. Just the CDP and MAYBE my TT down the road. Will use a TT amp before pre-amp. So no onboard TT pre needed.
Brock, you point on remote volume is noted, but if I get to the point of "I think I heard and small veil of noise when I turned up the volume".....
confiscate my gear and sell it on Craigslist. You keep the money.
It would be at that point I forgot about the music and was more worried about the noise being presented. Not worth it.
I like a remote, but not necessary.

We are playing nice, just a difference of experience. I'll also add there are people on here that use their cdp volume control instead of a pre-amp. I would never do that either, talk about a compromise. A cheap little potentiometer or a cheap little I/C for high end audio? No way.

Many people are fine with the switching PS walwarts that comes with some gear these days. I use a regulated linear PS and there is a marked difference to my ears, night and day to me. Same with the digital volume control on the Squeeze and anything I run on my computer, differences are very apparent when compared.

Everything matters and in the end it's a cumulative effect. If you start cutting corners here and there, pretty soon your rig is nothing but compromises. We all deal with compromises. But a rudimentary digital volume is not one I would recommend in a main rig where sound quality matters.

H9

mhardy6647

The dig against volume control in the digital domain is well-documented and makes intuitive sense... but... I must admit -- on the CD player... I do it all the time... because I am one lazy m-o f-o.

heiney9

Dskip, I think we know I'm not talking about $100,000.00 systems here, nor is Russ looking at $100K system. Let's keep this in perspective and not start running to the extreme's to bolster your opinion. I said "many" and "most". Of course there are products and software out there that overcome this issue, but they aren't cheap. I'm talking normal gear that most of us would be considering.

We can agree to disagree here, because I'm not really wanting to start an argument.

Op-amps are a compromise too, but that doesn't get much discussion either. People will argue until the sun comes up that some sound as good as discrete parts, but they don't. Some are less compromised, but they are all a compromised. May even be a compromise many will live with, but there is a difference.

H9

[Deleted User]

Great thread! The only solution is build a direct box with phono inputs as well.
That way, you can control everything bought pots, wire, everything.

heiney9

I wanted remote for my tube pre, but I wasn't willing to pay the extra cost of a unit that had excellent implementation. It's not a huge deal, but it would be nice at times. I am thrilled with the EE Mini Max Pre in my system so I don't plan on changing anytime soon.

In fact once the Dexa discrete op-amps break in inside the EE Mini Max Plus Dac, I'm going to replace the coupling caps with something more musical.

So far the synergy with these two pieces in my rig have been nothing short of phenomenal. I am extremely pleased with the main rig and once the caps are done, I'm done for a long while (I think )

H9

SCompRacer

ESS Sabre admits analog volume can be better, as long as it is lower in noise than their -135dB number (-132dB in stereo). The critical thing about digital volume is it should happen in the DAC. I've used my ESS Sabre DAC (ES9018, 32 bit volume control) before to control volume (before getting a pre amp with remote) and could not tell the difference.

heiney9

Rich, to be fair your dac is pretty much a no compromise, DIY unit. Not the run of the mill mass produced piece of electronics. Just wanted to put that out there for those that didn't know.

H9

lightman1

Curveball...The Jolida DAC/T I have is essentially what is says. A DAC with a built in transport. BUT no volume control. If and only if I do streaming, would I run it through the Jolida or to the DSpeakers pre which also has an onboard DAC and all the necessary inputs on it? Thus having the signal processed by the Jolida into the DSpeakers pre with it's digital volume control.
Room correction off and on bypass to amps.
No potentiometer on that pre.
Weakest link in the chain type of scenario.

lightman1

SCompRacer wrote: »

ESS Sabre admits analog volume can be better, as long as it is lower in noise than their -135dB number (-132dB in stereo). The critical thing about digital volume is it should happen in the DAC. I've used my ESS Sabre DAC (ES9018, 32 bit volume control) before to control volume (before getting a pre amp with remote) and could not tell the difference.

heiney9 wrote: »

Rich, to be fair your dac is pretty much a no compromise, DIY unit. Not the run of the mill mass produced piece of electronics. Just wanted to put that out there for those that didn't know.

H9

Yeah, Rich. Quit showing off!

SCompRacer

DSkip wrote: »

Can you expound on why it should happen in the DAC?

It keeps the data path short.

heiney9 wrote: »

Rich, to be fair your dac is pretty much a no compromise, DIY unit. Not the run of the mill mass produced piece of electronics. Just wanted to put that out there for those that didn't know.

H9

True that. This is one of them things where a one line answer doesn't explain why.

First off the Twisted Pear Buffalo III and IIISE DAC board uses four shunt modules to power the DAC chip alone. I think they were the first to address that level of detail in power. Our own Fred electronics guru has even mentioned that here.

Add high quality power supplies and you provide the lowest noise power. In my case, shunting power supplies, where you set mA output 50 to 100mA over what the DAC needs, which gets turned into heat. The DAC never has to ask for more power, it has it available at all times.

The analog power supply of the DAC chip must be an ultra low-noise design or the chip itself won't exhibit ultra-low noise. Noise degrades dynamic range. Low noise power supplies are expensive to implement and in my case, add much heat. A vented enclosure is a must. Add high quality output with low noise power supplies and the signal leaves the DAC with the quietest and most dynamic signal to be amplified.

txcoastal1

Skip
When I first set up my PC W/Jriver>>>>W4S DAC>>>>Melody pre I could here distortion clicks/static come through the speakers raising and lowering the volume with JRiver

Now if I used the W4S or Melody control there was none
I took this as the PC was the issue with the unfiltered DC currents and USB