What is going on in Flint?

kevhed72 · January 2016

Sounds really bad...and my guess would be all that lead in the river was a result of GM manufacturing cars over all those years. Sad irony.

WilliamM2 · January 2016

Apparently it came from old pipes and fixtures that contain lead, not the river.

The state Department of Environmental Quality has conceded it failed to require needed chemicals to be added to the corrosive Flint River water.

As a result, lead leached from pipes and fixtures into the drinking water.

http://www.wbir.com/news/nation-now/how-water-crisis-in-flint-mich-became-federal-state-of-emergency/19519786

tonyb · January 2016

So then the proper question next is....why didn't they go back to using the water from Lake Huron as they previously were before the cost cutting measures ?

Waiting for a new pipe line is an excuse because nobody cuts off the water supply from the old lines until the new ones are up and running.....nobody. If the old ones were fine before, somebody screwed up big time because they went with even older lead lines which is a disaster.

Here in Chicago, in the city, we still have wood water mains in use. Better than lead and easier to fix a leak....anyone got a cork ? lol I'm not kidding, that's how we fix them.

Dennis Gardner · January 2016

Once the lead started leaching due to the new corrosion, there isn't much they can do, but replace them. $1.5B just to save couple million a year......

F1nut · January 2016

$1.5B just to save couple million a year......

The Mayor is a Democrat, right.

westmassguy · January 2016

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

Once the lead started leaching due to the new corrosion, there isn't much they can do, but replace them. $1.5B just to save couple million a year......

Sounds about right

westmassguy · January 2016

tonyb wrote: »

So then the proper question next is....why didn't they go back to using the water from Lake Huron as they previously were before the cost cutting measures ?

Waiting for a new pipe line is an excuse because nobody cuts off the water supply from the old lines until the new ones are up and running.....nobody. If the old ones were fine before, somebody screwed up big time because they went with even older lead lines which is a disaster.

Here in Chicago, in the city, we still have wood water mains in use. Better than lead and easier to fix a leak....anyone got a cork ? lol I'm not kidding, that's how we fix them.

They have them in Staten Island too

dromunds · January 2016

Both parties have lost the way. Power and greed.

tonyb · January 2016

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

Once the lead started leaching due to the new corrosion, there isn't much they can do, but replace them. $1.5B just to save couple million a year......

NO, they were using water lines previously to all this with no problems and it was treated Lake Huron water. What I'm gathering is, in order to save money, they started using older lines to draw water from the river which are lead lines and didn't properly treat that water either. Though no chemical you add is going to remove all the lead.

They probably had the new pipeline in the works but progress was slow due to the fact they are broke.....and now are using that as the scapegoat. Once you have a water system in place that works and your able to properly treat it, you don't turn it off until a newer one is in place and ready to go. That's basic 101 water municipality. You don't start drawing water from other sources that you know have old lead water pipes...and then don't even treat it properly. This is borderline criminal, incompetence at such a high level. I can't even digest that this could happen in todays world in our country. We have very stringent requirements when it comes to water supplies.

All revolves around money too. Just goes to show the lengths some will go to, to protect their bloated pensions and benefits. Like I keep harping on, sheet rolls downhill and the average Joe citizen is at the bottom of that hill.

So now what ? They'll fix it ? What about all the people who now have an over abundance of lead in their bodies ? Lead doesn't leave your body, it accumulates and effects your brain and motor skills. There's a reason we stopped using lead paint.

Think your safe too because you live in a well to do area ? Think again....I've worked in many very rich neighborhoods where the main water pipes were cast iron, as they should be, but water lines going to some of the houses or businesses are still lead.

Villages only have x amount of money to spend on a project, and if they can't afford to hook up new copper water lines to everyone, they simply hook up the old lead lines to the cast iron mains. Some states have made that practice illegal, some simply don't abide by laws regulating it. Still some, by law, can only replace lead with copper up to the homeowners property line. The rest is on you. Even if you have copper going into the house, it is no guarantee that it's copper all the way to the main.

This subject hits home for me because I've seen first hand how villages, and contractors skirt things for the almighty buck. I used to be pretty vocal about it too. Know the answer I'd get from my superiors ?

What do you care, do you live here ?

tonyb · January 2016

The Gov. is a Republican but the city's mayor a Democrat. I can tell you, a states Governor has zero to do with local water municipalities. The state however sets the guidelines and each municipality is required to conform to them. The state should be doing random checks/tests, but sometimes each municipality does their own tests and forwards the results to the state. Can they be doctored ? You betcha....but usually a state approved outside source is used for testing to avoid that. I say usually because who knows what goes on in Flint.

So the finger pointing begins, but it is the local mayor of that town who has ultimate responsibility to adhere to the states water requirements and regulations. Anything else is simply politics.

Speedskater · January 2016

tonyb wrote: »

The Gov. is a Republican but the city's mayor a Democrat. I can tell you, a states Governor has zero to do with local water municipalities................

Well no, in this case it's the exact opposite. The state took control of the local government, leaving the mayo with no authority. This billion dollar disaster was caused by people directly appointed by the governor.

WilliamM2 · January 2016

tonyb wrote: »

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

Once the lead started leaching due to the new corrosion, there isn't much they can do, but replace them. $1.5B just to save couple million a year......

NO, they were using water lines previously to all this with no problems and it was treated Lake Huron water. What I'm gathering is, in order to save money, they started using older lines to draw water from the river which are lead lines and didn't properly treat that water either. Though no chemical you add is going to remove all the lead.

No, it was the same lines, it's not like they have two sets of water lines running through the city. They were getting water from Detroit, it was treated properly, no issues. Then they started getting water from the river, and failure to add a chemical caused the lead to leach out, because the water is more corrosive. It's not just the pipes, but the fixtures in older homes are not lead free. The chemical makes the water less corrosive, it doesn't remove lead.

dromunds · January 2016

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/as-water-problems-grew-officials-belittled-complaints-from-flint/ar-BBov8NU?li=BBnb7Kz&OCID=msnHomepage

Mikey081057 · January 2016

Keep putting your faith in big government....They are all a bunch of hacks... Now the blame game ... Hilarious.... One note.... If your water is brown and stinks of chemicals and you drink it, bath in it cook with it...???/

BlueMDPicker · January 2016

Check what's on Gov. Scott's desk for signing today, Mikey. We may be in for the same thing soon. Hope not.

motorhead43026 · January 2016

I write a check out to big government for my water bill every 3 months. What am I suppose to do drill a well?

Mikey081057 · January 2016

So as all of the local and other state lawmakers/watchdogs run for cover this Snyder guy stands up and says he takes RESPONSIBILITY.... I guess he should have blamed it on a Youtube video.

If you are surprised that any bureaucrat would cover up a government F 'up you need to figure out a better way to be informed.

Is there any reliable information that talks to what happened to testing and who/how tests didn't work? Please post as I would like to learn more.

I don't drink tap water... haven't for 40 years...and I never get sick. But when I lived in NJ the private water companies there that I received service from always had testing reports published...

I currently have well water that is treated at my own little "plant" we have sulfur in our water. the water straight from the well does smell like sulfur straight from the well. I have R.O. water at my sink for cooking and Ice cubes. The rest is bottled for me. My neighborhood is being converted to "city water" now and won't drink that either.But I do believe that you SHOULD be able to drink the water that you pay for. And if there is a coverup over bad decisions made they should not only be forced to step down, they should be prosecuted.

Mikey081057 · January 2016

motorhead43026 wrote: »

I write a check out to big government for my water bill every 3 months. What am I suppose to do drill a well?

Are there test results published on your water?

I recall the stories and movies and documentaries regarding the water from Toms River NJ... It was a huge problem and cost caused childhood cancers etc. due to a chemical company that was dumping.... People died people were sickened property values were affected the ocean was affected.... It was a real mess... No one went to jail. In many cases government refuses to prosecute and punish the gov. officials who are responsible... Put some of them in jail until they change their ways...

dromunds · January 2016

Sherman would've shot 'em, Lee would've had 'em hung.

Mikey081057 · January 2016

dromunds wrote: »

Sherman would've shot 'em, Lee would've had 'em hung.

Good advice...

sucks2beme · January 2016

Flint. It was a one horse town and the horse left (GM).
So no money. There's a lot more of these kind of things going
to happen as the infrastructure ages. I don't think the Red vs. Blue
thing plays into this. It's all about $$$ or the lack of it.
And Flint doesn't have a pot to #### in.

dromunds · January 2016

It's about corruption

tonyb · January 2016

WilliamM2 wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

Once the lead started leaching due to the new corrosion, there isn't much they can do, but replace them. $1.5B just to save couple million a year......

NO, they were using water lines previously to all this with no problems and it was treated Lake Huron water. What I'm gathering is, in order to save money, they started using older lines to draw water from the river which are lead lines and didn't properly treat that water either. Though no chemical you add is going to remove all the lead.

No, it was the same lines, it's not like they have two sets of water lines running through the city. They were getting water from Detroit, it was treated properly, no issues. Then they started getting water from the river, and failure to add a chemical caused the lead to leach out, because the water is more corrosive. It's not just the pipes, but the fixtures in older homes are not lead free. The chemical makes the water less corrosive, it doesn't remove lead.

Indeed....but the lead gets through anyway. The chemicals are for the pipes benefit, not yours. Which bears to question what else didn't they treat it for ? Lots of other nasty's in there besides lead.
Uh...most towns do have more than one set running through a city. You think when they put in a new set they remove the old ? I'm talking from treatment plants to sources, not to homes as your service lines can't run off 2 different pipe lines. Some towns like to keep the old as a backup should something happen and they simply control it by a valve to switch lines. Not saying for sure that's the case here, just my guess, but it is plausible.

Every village should publish the results of independent H20 testing once a year. You should read it sometimes. There is more to this story that is being said and I imagine to shield those responsible from criminal charges.

What baffles me is everyone under the mayor knows the consequences from doing what they did and nobody said a frickin' word ? All those in charge of the water for any municipality have to be certified and any decision in regards to changes come from the top. I don't care how poor a city is, you have to prioritize and clean drinking water is at the top. I don't care what side of the political spectrum you sit on.

If anything, this should raise awareness as to how vulnerable or drinking supply is much less the importance of it.

tonyb · January 2016

I know I've harped on this before, but.....instead of sinking all those billions into solar and electric cars which in the grand scheme of things means squat, how about sinking it into infrastructure ? Making sure we have the best available, and most, clean water ? Into research to turn sea water into fresh. That would have a more lasting effect on human kind imho.

That's enough common sense for one day....I better stop before the po-lice come a knockin'. lol

westmassguy · January 2016

Preaching to the choir (mostly) Tony.

cnh · January 2016

I'm with you Tony. Don't care what your politics are this is a travesty. Human life or money? Really! This is what we've become. Gov't, what gov't? The bankrupt one? Oh, how about some private company move in and solve this, markets? Oh, sorry, NO PROFIT in Flint, let them drink LEAD! Lots of "compassion" all around! Hard to not abandon the human race! Are we that VILE?

Mikey081057 · January 2016

So what levels of lead are in the water? What is the acceptable threshold. Doesn't this fall under the EPA either state or federal... The EPA if we are to have one should be monitoring and correcting these issues.... I suppose this project had to be permitted and approve.... Who are the people who approved this at the EPA? and what "study" was done to defend the folks from this outcome.... Come on the EPA shuts down coal and other dirty industries to protect the people... When do we hear they don't have enough budget to do what they should be doing instead of being a bunch of ideological political hacks.... M F er's need to do some hard time.

nooshinjohn · January 2016

Corrupt leadership going back for DECADES is why they have the problems they do in Flint and in a thousand other places across this country. Corrupt politicians of both parties are to blame here, and not just the current office holders. but their predecessors as well.

Mikey081057 · January 2016

HA! EPA official responsible for that region just resigned. See what power I yield...lol

rpf65 · January 2016

I think the way it works is the federal government sets the minimum standards, and the states are responsible for conducting the tests. It could be through a state agency or a 3rd party lab.

We have a private company supplying our water, and I've been asked a couple of times to take samples. They are collected, sent to a facility to get tested, and everybody receives a copy of the test results on a yearly basis.

Could be a state regulation as far a yearly goes, or possibly federal, not sure. Surely the issue with Flint should have been caught within the first year, if it's a federal mandate.

Unless of course a private company is held to higher standards than a public utility.

mhardy6647 · January 2016

tonyb wrote: »

I know I've harped on this before, but.....instead of sinking all those billions into solar and electric cars which in the grand scheme of things means squat, how about sinking it into infrastructure ? Making sure we have the best available, and most, clean water ? Into research to turn sea water into fresh. That would have a more lasting effect on human kind imho.

That's enough common sense for one day....I better stop before the po-lice come a knockin'. lol

That's an interesting point -- I think (?) it's because infrastructure isn't sexy; "technology" is. Hard to get folks excited about digging up old pipes and putting in new ones -- or replacing a bridge (work which just mucks up their commutes).

Consequently, as is oft said, our infrastructure is indeed "crumbling".

As an aside -- turning sea water into fresh is straightforward -- just not terribly cost effective in most jurisdictions. I think that the thermodynamics of desalinization will mean it shall ever be thus.

There are places (the Middle East and San Diego being two) where the cost is bearable, it seems.

What is going on in Flint?

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