Lsi9
11tsteve
Posts: 1,166
Well, a couple of months back, I bought a pair of Lsi9 from cstmar01 for a very nice price. They have some cosmetic issues, which I knew about, but sonic-wise are fine for stock. In fact, I put them into the system, and they mesh very well with what I have going on. Everything I have for speakers are updated vintage, and I wanted the Lsi9 to give a more modern speaker design a listen.
Compared to the rest of my stable (all of which I enjoy for differing reasons), the presentation and pinpoint detail of the Lsi9 is quite pleasing. They just slid into my system, and I have done nothing but enjoy my time getting to know them.
So, I have decided to move forward and put some work into them. Crossovers will be modded, and I spent the afternoon removing the side panels. These are second gen and glued on, so it was some work, but nothing horribly difficult.
I feel overwhelmed, more so than previous projects, just because these are not quite as straight forward a project as, say, 5 Jr+.
I will re-veneer the side panels (thinking burled something, or tiger striped maple), and I would like to refinish the cabs. The piano finish has some damage, and needs to be either repaired, or completely redone.
Right now, my main two questions are...
How to remove the glue from the cabs and side panels.
And the best way to remove the original piano black finish?
I think I want these to be my main speaks for a while. They really trip my trigger and work well with my McCormack... so I want to do these right.
Thanks
Steve
I was thinking Sonicap Gen 1's and Mills for the crossovers. Anyone had better luck with others?
Compared to the rest of my stable (all of which I enjoy for differing reasons), the presentation and pinpoint detail of the Lsi9 is quite pleasing. They just slid into my system, and I have done nothing but enjoy my time getting to know them.
So, I have decided to move forward and put some work into them. Crossovers will be modded, and I spent the afternoon removing the side panels. These are second gen and glued on, so it was some work, but nothing horribly difficult.
I feel overwhelmed, more so than previous projects, just because these are not quite as straight forward a project as, say, 5 Jr+.
I will re-veneer the side panels (thinking burled something, or tiger striped maple), and I would like to refinish the cabs. The piano finish has some damage, and needs to be either repaired, or completely redone.
Right now, my main two questions are...
How to remove the glue from the cabs and side panels.
And the best way to remove the original piano black finish?
I think I want these to be my main speaks for a while. They really trip my trigger and work well with my McCormack... so I want to do these right.
Thanks
Steve
I was thinking Sonicap Gen 1's and Mills for the crossovers. Anyone had better luck with others?
Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
Post edited by 11tsteve on
Comments
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This morning, I ordered the veneer for the side panels. I have three sets of speaks done in varying forms of oak, and I wanted something different for the Lsi9... something figured. After spending a few hours at Veneer Supplies, it came down to burled walnut, burled white oaf, and burled maple. I chose the maple.
There is not much paper backed figured veneer, so I bought a lot of 9 sheets of raw veneer. This will be my first foray into using raw veneer, so if anybody has any tips, they will be appreciated.
I still haven't come to a conclusion about the crossovers. By the time I purchase everything I need for a DIY, I am getting close to the cost of fortress level crossovers from VR3.... the thing I am caught on is the low end. I would really rather add the film caps instead of a bypassed electrolytic. I have been studying Ray's thread on his Lsi9 mods, and will most likely go that route.
So many decisions.
This weekend will be spent stripping and prepping the side panels.Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
Been pretty busy of late, but I found some time this weekend to finish stripping the veneer from the side panels. All in all, it went much better than stripping the vinyl from the RTA 11T's or the 5jr+'s.
I have today off due to weather, so I get to start sanding the panels down, and I have applied veneer softener to the sheets I have decided to use.
Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
Also, as a side note, I used Goof Off super glue remover to clean up the residual adhesive from the side panels, and I must say it seems to be an excellent product, dissolving the dried glue in a matter of a couple of minutes. I scraped it off with a sharp putty knife, and it seems to leave nothing behind.
http://www.goofoffproducts.com/product/pro-strenght-super-glue-removerPolk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
Very cool. I've used goof off before with great results, seems to remove any kind of glue residue with ease.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
New sidenote to my audio journey. My McCormack DNA 0.5 will be making the trip to SMc Audio for the Gold Standard upgrade.
When they are finished, about all of the original amp that will be left is the chassis, the transformer, and the output boards. All new everything else, including the main board.
Turnaround should be 3-4 weeks, so hopefully I can get this Lsi9's put back together in that time.
Not to mention, my ears will probably be bleeding by then from listening to my old NAD 2150....
I am experiencing difficulties with the veneer. I believe I didn't initially apply enough of the softener, and so I am going through a second process of trying to get the veneer to be more pliable.Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
anonymouse wrote: »When I did my CRS+ in raw walnut veneer, I used normal wood glue, covered the veneer fully with a thin but adequate layer, let it dry to just tacky, and then ironed it on with a regular clothes iron with a barely damp cloth between the iron and the veneer. This worked really well. I was even able to do rounded corners easily with this technique. Over 4 years later, I have not had any separation problems with the veneer. I would try this technique vs. your softener technique.anonymouse wrote: »Also, for your crossovers, splurge on sonicaps for the highs, go with daytons for the lows. You will be happy with the results.
Thanks very much for the tip! I had reapplied the softener a few days ago, and I had much better success with the sheets being pliable this morning. I barely misted a towel this morning, applied the glue (I have a veneer glue), let it set just a bit, and tried the iron. I worked well in getting the sheet flat and getting the veneer to bend around the curve. The panel is currently in clamps, so well see what happens.
I am starting to wonder if maybe contact cement might be better for this project though. The positioning of the veneer is not critical in this case, so the disadvantages of the cement aren't a big deal.
I did order crossover parts, Sonicap Gen 1 for high/mids, Mills 12v all around, and 2 Solen 130 uF for the low pass. I also ordered some Derlin and Cardas QE solder.
All I need is some good hookup wire, but I don't really know what I want.
I am going to try a mix of DarqueKnight's thread on modding, and attempting building a new crossover using point to point wiring in a VR3 style.
I built entirely new crossovers (with Trey's help) for my Infinity Rsb, and it was very challenging, but the results were very satisfying. The Lsi 9 will be a bigger challenge. With the Rsb, the 10 inch woofer cutout made design and installation was easy.Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
progress. I haven't decided what route to go with finishing though....
Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
I started getting some color into the grain of the panels today, using 2 Minwax products. First a pre-stain treatment, and then I am using a natural stain.
I have a compare picture to start with, and more as I get further along.
The pre-stain went on, was allowed to sit for an hour or so, and then the first application of stain. I got all four done with the first round today, and lightly sanded, ready for the second round tomorrow.
While they were drying, I got a start on the crossovers. I am using Derlin for the boards, which I cut to size using the dimensions of the stock board. I used my Rockwell oscillating multi-tool, which went smoothly. I just had to sand the cut edges a bit, as the tool burrs the plastic a little.
I did a mock up, drilled for my zip ties, and got one about ready for soldering in the morning. Should have put a quarter in for scale to give an idea of those BigBoy 130 uF's. That board will somehow be attached to the bottom of the speaker cab as I did with my Infinity Rsb's. I just don't yet know how.
I drilled and tapped the stand-offs on the stock backplate, and have some 8-32 ReadyRod I am going to use to mount the mid/high boards, a la Fortress mod. I wanted to possibly build a new backplate, using some 1/4" Derlin and 1/8" brushed aluminum plate, and also drop one set of binding posts in that process( I will never bi-amp these), but I am running out of allotted time. That is something I can still do later.
Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
Looking good Steve.
Looking forward to the completed project. Then you can make a matching computer case! (Throwback reference to our time on Extreme Overclocking for the win!)"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
I wish I'd seen this earlier. Since you are not adding color there's no reason to use a pre-stain or clear stain at all. Just finish them with the clear coat of your choice. If you have spray equipment, nitro lacquer would bring the grain out beautifully.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I was going to try adding color at first, and then decided against it. I then decided on using the pre-stain and natural stain in an effort to help "pop" the grain. These were not top rated pieces of veneer, but were the best I could afford for the project. I would say the grain was just a little muted compared to other examples I have seen.I wish I'd seen this earlier. Since you are not adding color there's no reason to use a pre-stain or clear stain at all. Just finish them with the clear coat of your choice. If you have spray equipment, nitro lacquer would bring the grain out beautifully.
Now, in retrospect, I know I should have maybe asked some more questions. Though I am just a poor home hobbyist with little access to nice equipment such as a sprayer, there may have been a better avenue. Using the products I did, with a light polyurethane, has added a reddish hue. For all I know, this may have been a natural aspect of the veneer and unavoidable, but I was seeking something a bit more on the blonde side.
That being said, I am in no way disappointed. I still like the panels immensely, and they are a vast improvement over the grey beat up old veneer.
So they are drying, and I may add another coat or two.
Meanwhile I have about wrapped up my crossovers, nearly ready for install.
I still have to drill, add hurricane nuts, make new gaskets, dynamat the drivers, and I think I probably want to re-attach the side panels before I reinstall the drivers and crossovers.
My plan is to use Loctite PowerGrab, unless there are other suggestions?
Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
No doubt, they look WAY better than the stock ones.
Power Grab needs one surface to be porous otherwise you'll need to use something else.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I mistyped... or I should say, mis-identified the product. I have a small consumer sized tube of Loctite PL Premium 3X. I have used the construction adhesives for work related projects, and knowing how they perform, the only concern I would have is the possible need to remove the panels at some future point.
Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
Try clear double sided 3M tape. With that you would be able to remove the panels in the future.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Try clear double sided 3M tape. With that you would be able to remove the panels in the future.
I took your advise, and I thank you very much. It had crossed my mind to do this, but was not confident with that choice until a more experienced person gave the ok. I bought the heaviest duty, and it seems to be working like a champ. The only downside is the very small gap between the panel and the cab, but it is barely noticeable.
Just finished them up this morning. The piano black finish is not super great, but I tried to buff it up best as I could.
Just Got the system changed back around, and I am loving the combo of the upgraded McCormack and Lsi9 together. some pretty sizable caps in the new crossovers, so I imagine between the amp still needing time, and the speakers needing a lot of break in, things will be changing a bit here and there over the next couple of weeks.
A reminder.....
Some crappy phone pics for now...
Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
Very NiceHome Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
WOW I like it!2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
Very nice!
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Great job.Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
Thank you for the kind words.... as with anything, I put a lot of effort into these, but there are still some imperfections.
Working with burled, raw veneer for my first attempt of not using backed veneer was a lot to bite off. And with the tight cab design, the crossovers were a challenge. The board with the 130uF caps literally has maybe 1-2mm between it and the top of the main crossover.
But overall, I am very pleased with the results.
Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
Let me pick my jaw up off the floor... They are gorgeous!Stan
Main 2ch:
Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.
HT:
Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60
Other stuff:
Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601 -
Yep, gorgeous. Congrats!b]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet -
those LOOK awesome man. Nice job!
Now, how do they sound???Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
those LOOK awesome man. Nice job!
Now, how do they sound???
Last night, I came home from a hard day, everyone was on a surprise outing, so I had some unexpected speaker time.... with some serious sound pressure. And between the "new" amp and the Lsi9... well... I just couldn't get enough. I was overwhelmed by my happiness at what I heard. Everything I put in sounded more in-the-room than I have ever heard... more weight, more dimension, more air.... incredible height, depth... it's new amp, speakers, and cables, and it is all as one.
Then this morning I had a little time. I would not think it will ever sound crappy again, but it was quite the transporting experience. Was it morning? Was it mood? Or is it that I am in the middle of break-in?
This is my fourth set of speakers I have broken down and refurbished as completely as I possibly can, and I know this always happens in the first week or two. So the best I can answer you question is " they are going to sound ****ing awesome, but need a little time".
Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
Looks Great!! Love the finish!
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Looks beautiful! Bring em down to the Quads and I'll break em in for ya.
Enjoy the fruits of your labor. -
Nice job!"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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I just saw this, those are stunning. I love maple and the burl is beautiful.VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
Polk SDA1c modded
Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded)
A/L 1000VA Dreadnought Canare 4s11 SDA cable
SACD Marantz DV8300
Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD
Yamaha YP-D6
Soundcraftsmen PCR800
Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
Vincent MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp
Pho-700 Phono Pre
Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's -
Thanks guys! Couple of months later, everything settled in, and it's all sounding pretty sweet.
Now it's time to start playing The Cable Game.Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
