Harmon Kardons new amps (1510, 1610, 1710s)

Oldskool

Hi there I just ordered a new HK 1710s which claims it has 7 separate 100 watt amplifiers giving 100wpc two channels driven but also 100wpc 7 channels driven.
I was torn between the onkyo 737 and this HK 1710s.
Ive been running the same system for 15 years now.
HK avr 125, polk r50 front, csi30 mid and two Merak rears with 15 inch woofers, 3.25 mids and cone tweeters. Sub been gone for years. My problem is someone broke the chip on my 65" smart 3d samsung tv and it only has one hdmi input now and my current avr barely supports svideo lol (thank god for the optical digital audio inputs that really stretched out its lifespan.
Anyways I want something so I can switch between video sources without having to replace tv.

Last year I acquired a set of rtia9 and have been running them off the avr in stereo only with all the other speakers set to off.

My plan is to run all 5 of the polk speakers in my main room off the avr using the zone 2 for the meraks in the garage (but never running at the same time) or if they are at lower volumes.

I crank music I mean Ive actually upgraded the windows in my stereo room to stop rattles and have the speakers placed perfectly.

Anyways on to my question. The HK website says the 1710s can draw a max of 510 watts AC from the wall. How is it possible to but out 700 watts total??? Hence why im thinking 5 channels is the most it could drive.

How do these new amps compare to a similar amp (looking at onkyo737)

Also I shoukd note the HK 1710s has 2 subwoofer preouts and I ordered two psw 125s so im thinking I wont have to drive the rtiA9 as hard using the subs to compensate the bass.

Anyway has anyone tried this new breed of amp? If so what are the results, all the reveiws on amazon etc seem good but people are not using speakers as hungry as the A9s ....

Any feedback woukd be appreciated thank you

rpf65

No way that avr will drive those A9's to their full potential. That's why people spend well over 1k for an avr with preorder in order to add a high current amplifier. Best guess your output per speaker with 5 driven will be 35-40 watts. Figure half that much usable wattage.

If that avr has preouts, buy a 2 channel, high current amp. Forget the psw 125. Properly driven, the A9's will dig lower than that sub.

F1nut

OP, you're not paying attention to the specs of your AVR. The power rating of 100 wpc is with 2 channels driven, period. It does not have what it takes to properly drive the RTi9's.

Oldskool

@F1nut I understand but if your read the specs on the new 15 16 17 series they say the have (for the 1710s series at least) that it has 7 different 100 watt amp @and not a/b it is digital switching amps. I guess my real questiOn is... how much more watts or power total will I getnoutnof the 1710s than I Am out of my avr 125. Im not trying to max these things out but I want to not fry top halfs under9owering them...

Oldskool

ps first house 6 months ago and money is fairly tight. Need a new avr but just so skeptical wbout new hk way of amping.... although on paper a/b amps are only about 50% efficient and these are pushing 90% so I was hoping about 40% ?more watts given vs watts drawn.
Also my 500 dollar hydro bill last month is playing a factor as my old 125 draws max powsr at 0 volume (0 being -80) and tenants are too dumb to shut it off when done

Oldskool

Basically I hoping the 1710s can power the a9 for excessive (-10 - 0 volume) for music in stereo only with a9, but also be able to crescendo during movies etc at about -20 - -25 formovies, I will also have two psw125 subwoofers helping during both modes meaning I wont have to drive the bottom halfs of the a9s as hard. Thanks for any input haha, I would lov3 to get an avr with front pre outs but is seemsits out of my price range,
Ps Im canadian and our dollar iz **** right now (about 70c us) making foreign purchases too pricey, and I canget the onyko 737 or hk 1710s for about 300 USD each right now in a country where the onkyo 838 is running 1300 canadian $ (900USD)

Oldskool

To clarify I wantit to power a9 for LOUD bassy music, but also be able to get by 5.1 ( on 7 channel amp) for moderafe 5.1 movie/game use) aka -20 and lower on currrent 125.

Oldskool

The a9 on musistepsteroidsereo only with two psw125 subs in opposite corners of 30x15 room (30 being width and 15-12 ft is distance from tv/ front etc, but im hoping the subs willb0 be about 17 ft diagonally and forwards from prime listening position

Oldskool

@nbrowser Thank you very much.... i think my biggest issue honestly is that my avr 125, even though noone will beleive me, drives these things hard, I mean, just "just lol" two rtia9 hooked up to this thing shaked the entire house, the difference between driving the r50 or a3 I think theyre called now and the a9 is not even measurable in words. Turning it to 0db makes human communication impossible and anything by michael bay nearly breaks my windows, im just 2orried im going to upgrade features and lose alot of headroom with the 1710s.... I dont know why its sp powerful for entry level but the r50 distort around -15 in stereo mode (too much power) where the a9 dont distort until about -5 - +5 (too little power)

Oldskool

also I should note both receivers draw about 500ac watts at max but HK rates the 125 at 235 max watts and the 1710 at 700 max watts.....

Oldskool

The r50 vs a9 comparison is on the avr 125 (pure gold in my opinion for music but movies not so much)

Nightfall

You can hear the amplifier stressing out way before you hear audible distortion. Be careful man.

Oldskool

Thank you. I agree that I want/need more power. But have been driving the a9 at close to 0 volume normally-4 for over a year now with everything from full Symphony to hard bass rap music for over a year now with no issues. (Also bought 5 year non conditional warranty so not worried) but I've never had any problems. My dream system obviously requires more power/preouts etc but I am in a bind, to switch from cable to ps4 to xboxone to bluray we are switching hdmi on back of tv and the chip is literally cracked in half, so im worried the continuos plugging/unplugging will break the last remaining jack, how much more power does the 1710s actaully make than the 125, and is the onkyo 737 a big step from 1710s, also is the onkyo 838 worth double thqt of 737 or 1710s... (has pre out other two do not)

Oldskool

And I agree I can feel that my a9 are not working anywhere near their potential on current power levels.

Oldskool

also I've had this receiver at 0 aka cranked at least one or two hours a week (understatement) every single week of its life (15 or so YEARS) and normally driving 5 speakers with centre set to "small" but front and rear set to "large" .. also the subwoofer died about 10 years ago and since the ive had the sub channel set to output to front speakers "L/R+LFE" is what receiver says. No problems ever and after a few posts it seems Im lucky to have not fried the reciever yet

F1nut

Oldskool wrote: »

@F1nut I understand but if your read the specs on the new 15 16 17 series they say the have (for the 1710s series at least) that it has 7 different 100 watt amp @and not a/b it is digital switching amps. I guess my real questiOn is... how much more watts or power total will I getnoutnof the 1710s than I Am out of my avr 125. Im not trying to max these things out but I want to not fry top halfs under9owering them...

That not what HK says. Try reading it again when you're not drunk.

BlueFox

F1nut wrote: »

Oldskool wrote: »

@F1nut I understand but if your read the specs on the new 15 16 17 series they say the have (for the 1710s series at least) that it has 7 different 100 watt amp @and not a/b it is digital switching amps. I guess my real questiOn is... how much more watts or power total will I getnoutnof the 1710s than I Am out of my avr 125. Im not trying to max these things out but I want to not fry top halfs under9owering them...

That not what HK says. Try reading it again when you're not drunk.

Lol. Words of wisdom, or just the grinch taking the fun out of Xmas?

Oldskool

Yes but old hk underrated their watts last time I bought one 15 years ago lol

Oldskool

Since you dont trust my drunken texting I will copy and paste

Features
Seven 100-watt-per-channel amplifiers with high-performance digital power supply
The AVR 1710S high-performance audio/video receiver pumps out 100 watts per channel to power a full seven-channel surround-sound system. It can also connect to two powered subwoofers to provide enhanced low-frequency performance for all your entertainment. While the amplifier retains the time-tested, high-current-capacity (HCC), ultrawide-bandwidth Harman Kardon design to ensure the most accurate, dynamic sound with enhanced clarity and realism – even at the highest listening levels – a digitally based power supply gives the amplifiers all the muscle they need without the weight of traditional power-supply designs and their heavy transformers. The net result is a great-sounding AVR in a small form factor that’s friendly to the environment.

Now there aren't many reveiws on 1710 yet but the 1700 (very similar) was rated by many 3rd party sites as having .... and I quote.... "100 Wpc two channels driven, or 95 wpc 7 channels driven", its not hard to imagine the newest pumping out and extra 5wpc at 7 channels driven....

Oldskool

@xcapri79 lol y8u are right, hence the toyota in my laneway instead of the chevy....
Ps proud owner of 71, 79 and 82 camaros lol... also have an 06 ss impala and a 76 stingray, the above is a list of why money may be tight, dont tell the wife

F1nut

Oldskool wrote: »

Since you dont trust my drunken texting I will copy and paste

Features
Seven 100-watt-per-channel amplifiers with high-performance digital power supply
The AVR 1710S high-performance audio/video receiver pumps out 100 watts per channel to power a full seven-channel surround-sound system. It can also connect to two powered subwoofers to provide enhanced low-frequency performance for all your entertainment. While the amplifier retains the time-tested, high-current-capacity (HCC), ultrawide-bandwidth Harman Kardon design to ensure the most accurate, dynamic sound with enhanced clarity and realism – even at the highest listening levels – a digitally based power supply gives the amplifiers all the muscle they need without the weight of traditional power-supply designs and their heavy transformers. The net result is a great-sounding AVR in a small form factor that’s friendly to the environment.

Now there aren't many reveiws on 1710 yet but the 1700 (very similar) was rated by many 3rd party sites as having .... and I quote.... "100 Wpc two channels driven, or 95 wpc 7 channels driven", its not hard to imagine the newest pumping out and extra 5wpc at 7 channels driven....

Instead of reading the marketing hype look at the Audio Specifications.

Oldskool

Ok @F1nuplaguplayay you're mostly un helpful game... Here are the audio specsGeneral Specifications
Audio Specifications
Input Sensitivity/Impedance 250mV/27k ohms
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (IHF-A) 100dB
Frequency Response (@ 1W) 10Hz – 130kHz (+0dB/–3dB)

Wow youre right @F1nut now if I just spoke korean computer language that would be great... and before you post another utterly useless comment... Here are the other specs

General Specifications
Stereo Power 100 watts per channel, two channels driven @ 6/8 ohms, 20Hz – 20kHz, <0.07% THD
Multichannel Power 100 watts per channel, two channels driven @ 6/8 ohms, 20Hz – 20kHz, <0.07% THD
High Instantaneous-Current Capability (HCC) ±42 amps
Transient Intermodulation Distortion (TIM) Unmeasurable
Slew Rate 40V/sec
Power Requirement 120V AC / 60Hz
Power Consumption <0.5W (standby); 510W maximum

So this is what got me wondering why the 2 channel and 7 channel were similar. ?......
Can't find info on this specifically but like I said above 3rd party company's rate1700 at 100wpc 2 channel and 95 wpc 7 channel.. Since then 1710 and then 1710s came out. Again, feel like a broken record with you @F1nut , but if 1700 rated 95 wpc all driven, that the 1710s? Two models newer.... woukd be capable of 5 extra watts all driven

Nightfall

Oldskool

Ok... going to bed will resume in morning... Can anyone just please compare the overall output power of avr 125 and 1710s, even a comparison between the 838 ands 1710s woukd be amazing.?.. also the hk is using different ( more efficient but less"tried and tried" mode of amplification which I am completely unfamiliar with.

ken brydson

Oldskool wrote: »

Ok... going to bed will resume in morning...

Can't wait....

Oldskool

@ken brydson yet another useless comment with no relevance to the topic... thank you.........

rpf65

Seems that every person commenting on this post has pretty much said the same thing. That avr will cause your speakers to play, but not to the level/sound quality they are designed for.

You've come to the Polk site to ask if an avr can drive the most power hungry speaker that Polk produces, and everybody has told you it can't drive them properly. Everybody is saying that you are in danger of clipping, and destroying speakers, cross overs, avr, or some combination of the 3.

Real simple here. The term watts looks good on the box/spec sheet, but what you need is current. There is no way that an avr drawing 500 watts is going to output 700 high current watts period. It isn't possible.

They avr your looking at is good, for what it's designed for. It isn't designed for the speakers you currently have. As a side note, the Onkyo 838 won't drive those speakers properly either. That's what everybody is trying to tell you.

Don't know who did the 3rd party testing, but the may want to look at H/K website if they're claiming 95 watts all channels driven. They specifically state 100 watts 2 channels driven @ 6/8 ohms. That would be 2 channel and multi-channels driven. I think that is what F1 was referring to.

Finally here is some advise for powering your A9's. Forget about buying those subs. The A9's will destroy them in the bass area. Go to canukaudiomatt and find a used 2 channel amp, or multi-channel amp. This is where watts come in, preferably 200 watts or more. Get an avr with preouts. Most important don't go above -10 bB on the volume knob, ever. Preferably -20, if you don't want the magic smoke to stay where it's supposed to.

tonyb

Oldskool wrote: »

Hi there I just ordered a new HK 1710s which claims it has 7 separate 100 watt amplifiers giving 100wpc two channels driven but also 100wpc 7 channels driven.
I was torn between the onkyo 737 and this HK 1710s.
Ive been running the same system for 15 years now.
HK avr 125, polk r50 front, csi30 mid and two Merak rears with 15 inch woofers, 3.25 mids and cone tweeters. Sub been gone for years. My problem is someone broke the chip on my 65" smart 3d samsung tv and it only has one hdmi input now and my current avr barely supports svideo lol (thank god for the optical digital audio inputs that really stretched out its lifespan.
Anyways I want something so I can switch between video sources without having to replace tv.

Last year I acquired a set of rtia9 and have been running them off the avr in stereo only with all the other speakers set to off.

My plan is to run all 5 of the polk speakers in my main room off the avr using the zone 2 for the meraks in the garage (but never running at the same time) or if they are at lower volumes.

I crank music I mean Ive actually upgraded the windows in my stereo room to stop rattles and have the speakers placed perfectly.

Anyways on to my question. The HK website says the 1710s can draw a max of 510 watts AC from the wall. How is it possible to but out 700 watts total??? Hence why im thinking 5 channels is the most it could drive.

How do these new amps compare to a similar amp (looking at onkyo737)

Also I shoukd note the HK 1710s has 2 subwoofer preouts and I ordered two psw 125s so im thinking I wont have to drive the rtiA9 as hard using the subs to compensate the bass.

Anyway has anyone tried this new breed of amp? If so what are the results, all the reveiws on amazon etc seem good but people are not using speakers as hungry as the A9s ....

Any feedback woukd be appreciated thank you

Because those with A9's are aware that any 100 watt receiver isn't going to cut the mustard. You keep asking the same question, and we keep giving you the same answer.

Those PSW125 subs are not a good match either. They simply won't dig down low enough to make a big improvement over a properly powered set of A9's. You might be better off finding a decent amp for 400 bucks than those 2 subs.

Which btw, the HK's you mentioned are receivers, not amps, big difference.

Maybe we can put this into perspective in a way you can understand, being the car buff you are. Would you throw a 4 cylinder engine in a Vette or Camaro ? You think it would perform the same as a big block 454 ? Of course not, right ? You think with that 4 cylinder engine you can reach the same top end as the big block ? Nope....and if you keep pushing it, what happens ?

What you keep asking us is how you can get the same performance from that 4 cylinder as you can from the 454....on the cheap no less too. We keep telling you, you bought the wrong engine.....and you keep looking at other engines in the same category.

So, while we are trying to be helpful, and you seem adamant about keeping a 4 cylinder engine, maybe you need a different car to drop that engine into.

Oldskool

@tonyb thank you lol that does make much more sense. I will definitely keep searching. The reason I ordered the subs was they were 80% off and I got them for around 110 USD each which I thought was a steal although ive never heard them haha

Oldskool

Also @tonyb In car terms again, so basically what I have now would be and old 305, I feel like the upgrade would be closer to a 350, but youre all saying I need a big block haha. Thank you, does anyone know of a decently priced receiver with pre-outs it seems you have to go up to about the 1000 dollar range to get them?

Oldskool

Also canukaudiomart seems like a great tool thank you