Monitor 10A & SDA-2B: are these worth it?

jdjohn

I am eyeing two pair of vintage Polks. Ok, I actually bought one pair yesterday, the Polk Monitor 10As, for $150, with one of the Peerless tweeters needing replacing (we negotiated). I pulled and tested the tweeter, and there is no continuity at all. Tonight I ordered two NOS Polk-made Peerless-style tweeters (with the little hole in the dome cover) from the bay. That should get the Monitor 10As back in shape. I also plan on getting stands for them. And I found a source for cross-over upgrades that I might do eventually. I really do like the sound of the silk dome tweeter in the one that does work. I like it better than the horn tweeter in the new Klipsch that I will now be returning to Best Buy

Tomorrow I am looking at a pair of Polk SDA-2B, priced at about $400. From the pics, these look immaculate, so I'm betting they work just fine. Side note: it amazes me that sellers act surprised when you tell them you want to hear the speakers first. This seller is concerned about a stranger coming into their home, and I get that, but still. Anyway, I have an open downstairs floor plan with about a 20'X35' space that is a combo living room and den and dining area, so I have convinced myself that the SDA-2Bs aren't overkill for the space. Can I get an amen on that? My amp is a new Onkyo TX-8050 with 100wpc.

Should I just be happy with Monitor 10As and some upgrades, or should I jump on those SDA-2Bs as well? I hate to let them go!

Nightfall

Overkill? That's a big enough space for the real big boys.

Get the 2B's and sell the Monitor 10's. They'll work on your Onkyo but it really isn't enough power to do either pair of speakers justice and unfortunately your Onkyo doesn't have preouts to accommodate an external standalone amplifier. Some electronics upgrades are in your future. Thus begins your tale into the rabbit hole.

Nightfall

Oh, and if they really are immaculate, $400 is okay. Not great, but okay.

jdjohn

Nightfall wrote: »

Overkill? That's a big enough space for the real big boys.

Get the 2B's and sell the Monitor 10's. They'll work on your Onkyo but it really isn't enough power to do either pair of speakers justice and unfortunately your Onkyo doesn't have preouts to accommodate an external standalone amplifier. Some electronics upgrades are in your future. Thus begins your tale into the rabbit hole.

Thanks for your reply. Even with the good-sized space, I do have a shared wall with my neighbors (townhome setup), so 'more' may not be 'better' in this case. My Onkyo has a pre-out...any help there?

Oh, I'm deep in the rabbit hole already with multiple turntable phono carts and now speakers, so nothing new there. I'll probably sell/donate my old CV D-3s before I sell the Monitor 10s, but hey, purging is purging, right? I kind of want to refurb or mod the Monitor 10s just to see/hear how they turn out before letting them go. I already have some appropriately-weathered replacement grills on the way as well.

Nightfall wrote: »

Oh, and if they really are immaculate, $400 is okay. Not great, but okay.

Good feedback, thanks. I'm mainly looking for value coupled with availability, so I think it's a good match. These speakers don't become available just every day.

Faustin

Curious as to where you found nos polk made Peerless tweeters?? Are they the clones from Midwest Speaker? 10's are fine speakers, have a pair myself. SDA's are a step, no a leap up. Welcome to Club Polk. Plenty of great people here to help you out. As Nightfall said, the tale begins into the rabbit hole, hole, hole, hole,,,,,,,,

Nightfall

Right, you have a zone 2 preout but not main preouts.

jdjohn

Faustin wrote: »

Curious as to where you found nos polk made Peerless tweeters?? Are they the clones from Midwest Speaker? 10's are fine speakers, have a pair myself. SDA's are a step, no a leap up. Welcome to Club Polk. Plenty of great people here to help you out. As Nightfall said, the tale begins into the rabbit hole, hole, hole, hole,,,,,,,,

Thanks for the welcome. Here is what I bought...seems legit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/262195350268?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I saw those Midwest Speaker replacements on eBay as well, but they were a few bucks more than these NOS. Do you have any experience with the Midwest Speaker replacements? Here is another option for Peerless parts, although not necessarily what I was looking for.
http://www.audioproz.com/AP.php?Search

Nightfall wrote: »

Right, you have a zone 2 preout but not main preouts.

I figured as much. Thanks for verifying. I'm in no rush to upgrade my amp just yet, though.

pitdogg2

I would of bought a pair from Midwest speaker.

slbenz

I run a set of SDA 2B speakers. You get an "Amen"! They will have no problem filling your space with quality sound.

westmassguy

Welcome to CP. That's a steal on NOS Peerless Tweeters.
On the 2Bs, are they Studio versions with wood grained vinyl and front grills, or the regular 2B with slab top and bottom with wrap-around grills?

Faustin

Good find on those tweeters. I have a pair of the Midwest clones and they are pretty good, but I prefer the Peerless.

Rex81

I think any SDA 2B (studio or real wood) sounds better than all other $400 options, but the market doesn't value these much. Probably because they're not skinny towers and require a lot of power. I'm seeing the Studio version going for about $200, and the wood capped version going for about $300. Maybe a little more if they're in perfect condition. See if you can talk the seller down accordingly. Then spend the money you saved on an amp with at least 200 wpc. I drive my SDAs (2B and SRS 2)with a Crown XLS 1500 (400 wpc into 6 ohms) that I bought brand new for $180 and it sounds fantastic.

StantonZ

You won't get an arguement on the 10B's from me (see sig), but I think you will have trouble driving these (old) Polks with that Onkyo as well.

jdjohn

Thanks for the feedback. These SDA-2Bs are the regular version with the wood slab on top and bottom. As often happens, it seems, one of the side panels had started to come unglued at the top, but I have now glued it back. There is a slight water ring on top of one speaker. One pair has some small disc-shaped, hard plastic feet on the bottom, but the other one has slightly exposed finishing nail heads showing, so I think I'll put felt pads there to protect my hardwood floor. Did these come stock with the plastic feet?

Interestingly, on the back of the speakers, they are labeled as either left or right channel for each speaker. I wonder why? I can't imagine they made one different than the other for left or right. By the way, that interconnect cable is substantial! I was expecting a typical speaker cable girth, but this thing is thick!

The guy I bought these from is a very interesting Korean gentleman. He must be at least 70yrs old, and in his house he probably has $20-30K worth of vintage hi-fi equipment - speakers and amps of all kinds. I took some pics on my phone and will post them later. His wife must be a very patient woman because his living room and dining room are jam-packed! And trust me when I say he likes to listen to his music LOUD. When I got out of my car, I could clearly hear his classical music playing from the driveway. He was not shy in showing-off what his equipment could do. He asked about my equipment, and (like you guys have pointed out) he suggested I get another amp. In fact, he said stay away from Japanese amps period...too much noise, he said. He suggested American or British amps as better choices. There was a slight language barrier, but I think he said Sunfire/Carver amps were his top picks. He also asked about my speaker cable, and let's just that say based on my response, he decided to give me over 35' of Monster cable for free. I'll take it! He said that speaker cable is VERY important...in his opinion. From what I have read, I think interconnects are more important than speaker cable as far as having proper shielding, although a sufficient gauge is critical for the speaker cable. But every part in the chain has an effect, so I'm not going to argue about free speaker cable.

Bottom line is that these speakers sound great! Yes, they are huge and more like a piece of furniture than a speaker, but they are attractive and sound amazing...especially for the price, and compared to brand-new speakers costing hundreds more.

Nightfall

You think those are huge, you should see 1.2's or SRS's in person.

Congrats on the great speakers. Now you need to upgrade them to 2BTL's. Open your wallet wide because there's more after that.

dkfreebird

All sda speakers are right and left specific so it is critical they are placed like that.Also spacing from sidewalks and distance for backwall and no toe in.Here is a pick of the 2b's with a set of 2.3tl's and 3.1tls so you can see the size difference.You picked up a fine pair of speakers.

jdjohn

westmassguy wrote: »

Welcome to CP. That's a steal on NOS Peerless Tweeters.

Faustin wrote: »

Good find on those tweeters. I have a pair of the Midwest clones and they are pretty good, but I prefer the Peerless.

FYI, that eBay seller has posted another pair of the NOS Peerless tweeters. I guess he has multiples. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Polk-Audio-Peerless-type-tweeters-5-7-10-12-mini-monitor-NOS-USA-made-/262198244262?

teekay0007

Congrats to jdjohn on scoring a couple of pairs of sweet speakers! Both are some of my Polk faves.

jdjohn wrote: »

Interestingly, on the back of the speakers, they are labeled as either left or right channel for each speaker. I wonder why? I can't imagine they made one different than the other for left or right.

Just wanted to point out that the "Left" and "Right" are their orientation from the front of the speakers (ie. when you are in your listening position, facing them). If they're set up the opposite way, all kinds of bad juju happens.

Welcome to Club Polk!!

boston1450

Yes. The plastic feet are stock. Get rid of them & spike them & you will notice the difference right off. Your bass will improve & you WILL notice a difference. Lay them down on their backs & pry them off gently. If all you got is the nail/ends-use vice grips & lock them on head & turn as you pull off gently. Should come off easily.... Spikes are fairly cheap & WMG directed me to some that worked perfect. If you decide to do it-we can walk you thru process

boston1450

Forgot to add. You can also get nice disc that the spikes go in. So hardwood floors dont get chewed up

boston1450

jdjohn wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. These SDA-2Bs are the regular version with the wood slab on top and bottom. As often happens, it seems, one of the side panels had started to come unglued at the top, but I have now glued it back. There is a slight water ring on top of one speaker. One pair has some small disc-shaped, hard plastic feet on the bottom, but the other one has slightly exposed finishing nail heads showing, so I think I'll put felt pads there to protect my hardwood floor. Did these come stock with the plastic feet?

Interestingly, on the back of the speakers, they are labeled as either left or right channel for each speaker. I wonder why? I can't imagine they made one different than the other for left or right. By the way, that interconnect cable is substantial! I was expecting a typical speaker cable girth, but this thing is thick!

The guy I bought these from is a very interesting Korean gentleman. He must be at least 70yrs old, and in his house he probably has $20-30K worth of vintage hi-fi equipment - speakers and amps of all kinds. I took some pics on my phone and will post them later. His wife must be a very patient woman because his living room and dining room are jam-packed! And trust me when I say he likes to listen to his music LOUD. When I got out of my car, I could clearly hear his classical music playing from the driveway. He was not shy in showing-off what his equipment could do. He asked about my equipment, and (like you guys have pointed out) he suggested I get another amp. In fact, he said stay away from Japanese amps period...too much noise, he said. He suggested American or British amps as better choices. There was a slight language barrier, but I think he said Sunfire/Carver amps were his top picks. He also asked about my speaker cable, and let's just that say based on my response, he decided to give me over 35' of Monster cable for free. I'll take it! He said that speaker cable is VERY important...in his opinion. From what I have read, I think interconnects are more important than speaker cable as far as having proper shielding, although a sufficient gauge is critical for the speaker cable. But every part in the chain has an effect, so I'm not going to argue about free speaker cable.

Bottom line is that these speakers sound great! Yes, they are huge and more like a piece of furniture than a speaker, but they are attractive and sound amazing...especially for the price, and compared to brand-new speakers costing hundreds more.

jdjohn wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. These SDA-2Bs are the regular version with the wood slab on top and bottom. As often happens, it seems, one of the side panels had started to come unglued at the top, but I have now glued it back. There is a slight water ring on top of one speaker. One pair has some small disc-shaped, hard plastic feet on the bottom, but the other one has slightly exposed finishing nail heads showing, so I think I'll put felt pads there to protect my hardwood floor. Did these come stock with the plastic feet?

Interestingly, on the back of the speakers, they are labeled as either left or right channel for each speaker. I wonder why? I can't imagine they made one different than the other for left or right. By the way, that interconnect cable is substantial! I was expecting a typical speaker cable girth, but this thing is thick!

The guy I bought these from is a very interesting Korean gentleman. He must be at least 70yrs old, and in his house he probably has $20-30K worth of vintage hi-fi equipment - speakers and amps of all kinds. I took some pics on my phone and will post them later. His wife must be a very patient woman because his living room and dining room are jam-packed! And trust me when I say he likes to listen to his music LOUD. When I got out of my car, I could clearly hear his classical music playing from the driveway. He was not shy in showing-off what his equipment could do. He asked about my equipment, and (like you guys have pointed out) he suggested I get another amp. In fact, he said stay away from Japanese amps period...too much noise, he said. He suggested American or British amps as better choices. There was a slight language barrier, but I think he said Sunfire/Carver amps were his top picks. He also asked about my speaker cable, and let's just that say based on my response, he decided to give me over 35' of Monster cable for free. I'll take it! He said that speaker cable is VERY important...in his opinion. From what I have read, I think interconnects are more important than speaker cable as far as having proper shielding, although a sufficient gauge is critical for the speaker cable. But every part in the chain has an effect, so I'm not going to argue about free speaker cable.

Bottom line is that these speakers sound great! Yes, they are huge and more like a piece of furniture than a speaker, but they are attractive and sound amazing...especially for the price, and compared to brand-new speakers costing hundreds more.

jdjohn wrote: »

Interestingly, on the back of the speakers, they are labeled as either left or right channel for each speaker. I wonder why? I can't imagine they made one different than the other for left or right.

.. Each speaker cabinet has 2 woofers. They are different they may look the same-but they are different. They are a directional speaker L&R. Proper placement is very important. Get to know your speaker

jdjohn

teekay0007 wrote: »

Just wanted to point out that the "Left" and "Right" are their orientation from the front of the speakers (ie. when you are in your listening position, facing them). If they're set up the opposite way, all kinds of bad juju happens.

Welcome to Club Polk!!

Thanks for the welcome! Lots of good info here for sure. I have to confess that I had the left and right switched for about a day-and-a-half (gasp) before noticing the labeling. They have been properly switched now, and luckily there doesn't seem to be any permanent damage

boston1450 wrote: »

Yes. The plastic feet are stock. Get rid of them & spike them & you will notice the difference right off. Your bass will improve & you WILL notice a difference. Lay them down on their backs & pry them off gently. If all you got is the nail/ends-use vice grips & lock them on head & turn as you pull off gently. Should come off easily.... Spikes are fairly cheap & WMG directed me to some that worked perfect. If you decide to do it-we can walk you thru process

I thought spikes were for carpet floors in order to 'connect' them to the sub-floor, and no spikes were necessary for hardwood. I suspect this is a hot topic of discussion amongst audiophiles.

As mentioned in my earlier post, I snapped a few pics of the seller's equipment (with permission of course), and I am attaching them here.

This was the view from his sofa. Several speakers on each side, and you see the SDAs in the front.


This is a close-up of the speaker set on the right side. His favorite was the one in lower left corner with fabric covering the front and the top. Language barrier, but I think this brand started with an 'E'... Check out those huge Klipsch speakers near the back; the black grill cloth section is the TOP of those massive speakers.


View of the dining area from the sofa.


Another angle of dining area. I asked him about prices of the amps on the table, and he said they wouldn't be available for sale for another year.

jdjohn

boston1450 wrote: »

Each speaker cabinet has 2 woofers. They are different they may look the same-but they are different. They are a directional speaker L&R. Proper placement is very important. Get to know your speaker.

My ears believe you I have noticed slight differences between the two mid woofers on each side, thinking maybe one was more sensitive than the other or possibly failing, but it makes sense now if you're saying those two mids/woofers are driven slightly differently within each cab. Does this make them 4-way speakers? I know the big woofers are actually passive and merely radiators, but still...

westmassguy

You need to get your learn on about Polk SDAs, the theory and technology behind it.
Download the handbook here: http://www.vr3mods.com/uploads/SDA_Handbook_2011_Rev3.pdf

boston1450

Thanks David. Im designated driver tonight for wife & her long time friend. Wife has tomorrow off & its her 44th birthday tomorrow Gotta laugh its 9:30 & were back home & she just hit the recliner. Lights out in 10mins counting down LOL

jimbo1421

Hi jdjohn,

Glad to see you made it here from vinylengine. Welcome.

Jim

TNHNDYMAN

Those speakers that "were his fav" are probably ESS brand referred to as rock monitors I believe. They have the HEIL tweeter and large 12" driver plus 12" passive. You definitely need to read up on the SDA's. When I got here 5 years ago, I did not know what a dimensional driver was either. Stay awhile, learn a lot, watch money go about the rate of our national treasury.

jdjohn

westmassguy wrote: »

You need to get your learn on about Polk SDAs, the theory and technology behind it.
Download the handbook here: http://www.vr3mods.com/uploads/SDA_Handbook_2011_Rev3.pdf

Ha, yes I saw that PDF, but hesitated on downloading/printing all 106 pages. However, I did glean enough of a 'feeling' that I should go ahead and purchase the SDAs without hesitation. Lots of good info there, though.

DSkip wrote: »

You also need to forget throwing $$$ at the M10's and focus on those SDA's. The SDA 2B's are prime candidates for beginning your modding journey.

Ah come on, bro. I have to practice my soldering skills on something, right? The Monitors are prime candidates for tweeter replacement experience.

jimbo1421 wrote: »

Hi jdjohn,

Glad to see you made it here from vinylengine. Welcome.

Jim

!!!

westmassguy

Print it out? Jeeze, just keep it in PDF on your hard drive

jdjohn

I received the NOS Peerless tweeters and replaced the faulty one in the 10A. I guess a good soldering job is one that works, right? Anyway, it works now.

I also spent some time today reading through that SDA PDF document, so now I have a better understanding of the technology. Thanks for prodding me to do that. I saw near the end of the document all of the mods that people do. A bit overwhelming, but one step at a time. For now I am just enjoying them as they are.

I have also seen information about modding the Monitor 10s. One thing in particular I noticed was using epoxy to adhere the magnets to the frame baskets in the mids. Was that not a problem with the SDAs?

Nightfall

It is a problem with every single midwoofer from that era of Polk. From the Monitor 4 up to the SDA 1.2TL's.