No bass on SACD with 2900

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  • therockman
    therockman Posts: 349
    edited March 2004
    Tour2ma, Thank you, sometimes my enthusiasim gets the better of me.
    kelley, I sure hope you get this thing figured out, because we all want to know what the problem is.
    Rocky
    Rocky Bennett
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2004
    You're welcome... Not all that long ago there was a thread about "Passion" waning in our discussions...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited March 2004
    TheRockman,

    Yours was one of the most easy to understand posts I have ever seen on this board. I just got a better understanding of this whole subject thanks to your post!

    Thank you.:)
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited March 2004
    Originally posted by therockman
    But keeping up with all of the posts on this thread has actually saddened me because of the lack of understanding regarding SACD and DSD technology.

    There is nothing to be sad about Bro rockman... you helped a lot of us so really you should be very proud! Its what makes the forum strong.

    Thanks

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • therockman
    therockman Posts: 349
    edited March 2004
    You guys are too kind!!! I guess that I don't have to hide my head in shame. Thanks!!!
    Rocky Bennett
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2004
    We keep this up and it'll be too big to hide in shame or otherwise... :D
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • John K.
    John K. Posts: 822
    edited March 2004
    Kelley, Doc Spec's description of the bass management the 2900 does with SACDs is the correct one. Both your 2 channel and multi - channel SACDs will output bass below the fixed 80Hz crossover which the 2900 has through its sub out; no further bass processing(even if additional conversions would do no audible harm) is necessary for this. Since the direct connection from the 2900 analog sub out to the sub didn't work, the Ref 50 doesn't appear to be the problem. Assuming that the 2900 setup is in fact correct(including of course setting the speakers "small" on the 2900), then as you and some of the others mentioned, it appears that the sub out part of the 6 analog outputs may be defective. It'll be interesting to learn the results when you take them in.
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited March 2004
    Look at John bringin' it to the table!

    rockman - the 2900 does all digital BM and the D/A conversion right inside the player. The output is strictly analog.

    I process the 2900 through the External Inputs of the 3803 AVR. The External Inputs are essentially routed directly directly to the amplifier stage for the surround channels. The subwoofer signal is simply passed to the sub out of the 3803.

    In high rez mode for SACD and DVD-A, the 2900 does not output any signal from the digital coax jack. It's strictly an analog path the entire way, as intended.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • therockman
    therockman Posts: 349
    edited March 2004
    OK Doc, I understand that the 2900 has complete bass management for high rez, but the post by John states that the 2900 can re-route the sub 80hz bass to the sub-woofer on 2 channel SACD, is this true? I guess it would work if you set the front right/left to "small" and the sub to "yes," but is this really the optimum mode to play high rez audio? Wouldn't this entail more than just bass mangement, wouldn't this involve digital processing within the 2900? I'm asking you Doc. so that I can learn from the man with the stuff.


    Rocky
    Rocky Bennett
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited March 2004
    Yes, you can listen to 2 channel with the BM circuit.

    You have to enable the "bass enhancer", which is a stupid name for retaining BM on 2 channel sources.

    The BM is done in the digital domain, and really is no different than any other type of digital data management. I mean the 2900 has to digitally decode the SACD and DVD-A stuff anyway, so digital processing of the signal inside the player is a requisite for operation, and in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing.

    If you have a great subwoofer, I wouldn't dream of not using it for SACD and DVD-A.

    Yes, it requires you to set all the speaks to small and the xo is defaulted at 80 Hz.

    The slopes are 6/12 for SACD, 12/24 for DVD-A, and 12/24 for 2 channel if you enable the "bass enhancer".
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • Loud & Clear
    Loud & Clear Posts: 1,538
    edited March 2004
    edited out.

    Two Channel Setup:

    Speakers: Wharfedale Opus 2-3
    Integrated Amp: Krell S-300i
    DAC: Arcam irDac
    Source: iMac
    Remote Control: iPad Mini

    3.2 Home Theater Setup:

    Fronts: Klipsch RP-160M
    Center: Klipsch RP-160M
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12NSD (X 2)
    AVR: Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030
    Blu Ray: Sony BDP-S790
    TV Source: DirecTV Genie
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2004
    Originally posted by Dr. Spec
    If you have a great subwoofer...
    Have you decided whether or not you have one yet?:(
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • debussyj
    debussyj Posts: 198
    edited March 2004
    Doc Spec,

    I know this might sound crazy, but with my DVD-5900, I have bass management set to on, the crossover at 80, and all speakers set to small, except my fronts.
    As you probably remember i have the entire LSI line with the rears being the LSI/FX. I have a nice hefty Earthquake sub. But when listening to SACD's, CD's, and DVD-A's in 2 channel, I find that I'm getting better detail and imaging from the LSI-15's with them set to large. When I set them to small, they sound choked and restrained. Am I losing my mind here??

    DebussyJ
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited March 2004
    I find that I'm getting better detail and imaging from the LSI-15's with them set to large. When I set them to small, they sound choked and restrained. Am I losing my mind here??

    Imaging and detail is a function of midrange and treble. I don't think it would have too much to do with whether or not the speaker was high passed at 80 Hz. If anything, high passing improves mids by reducing IM distortion.

    It's possible the Earthquake is affecting the overall sound presentation vs. the LSi15 alone on large. The EQ could emphasize mid bass and drown out details in the mids whereas the LSi-15 doesn't in comparison.

    I suppose you'll never know unless you ran a response sweep in both configs. Failing that, go with whatever sounds best!
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited March 2004
    Have you decided whether or not you have one yet?

    Not sure what you're getting at here, BET?
    :confused:
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2004
    The evaluation of the PB2-U...

    You knew it wasn't anything malicious.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited March 2004
    Yeah, that review will be a little while yet. I just finished a $600 sub shoot-out over at HTF that took a lot of time.

    The subs weren't Polk, so I can't mention their names here.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • therockman
    therockman Posts: 349
    edited March 2004
    Hey kelley,
    What was ever the deal with this? Do you have bass pumping out of that sub now?

    Rocky Bennett
    Rocky Bennett
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  • kelley
    kelley Posts: 287
    edited March 2004
    Actually no. I have to go down to Tweeter Friday night and we're going to figure out what's wrong. All of the setups seem to be right, at least over the phone. I've been occupying my time with trying to get the boat ready so it hasn't bothered me too much
    SDS-400, SDA-1B, SVS 20-39pc+, B&K Ref 50, Denon 2900
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  • debussyj
    debussyj Posts: 198
    edited March 2004
    Kelley,

    Did you ever read the private message I sent you regarding your no bass problem?

    DebussyJ
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  • kelley
    kelley Posts: 287
    edited March 2004
    DebussyJ, I just found it over in my junk email folder. Cool, thanks for the tip. Are those normal hours I need to call?
    SDS-400, SDA-1B, SVS 20-39pc+, B&K Ref 50, Denon 2900
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  • debussyj
    debussyj Posts: 198
    edited March 2004
    Hi Kelley

    Yes, they are normal hours. I gave you a private message because I didn't think it was right posting the guys, name, etc. for general viewing. Anyway, they fixed my problem, can probably fix yours. Hope I helped.

    Good luck.

    Deb
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  • kelley
    kelley Posts: 287
    edited March 2004
    I guess we can close this out. I wasn't able to make any contact with your lead debussyj but my work hours may have made it next to impossible. Anyway. I'm supposed to head down to Tweeter tomorrow night with my gear and see if we can figure out what's wrong. They've already gone over the setup with me on the phone and everything looks to be set up right. I decide this afternoon that I will turn everything up one more time and see if I can figure it out. The minute the music started I could tell I had sub output. Damn I don't know why because I haven't changed anything or even turned it on in over a week. I'm not going to complain though as it saved me a 180 mile round trip. Thanks for all of the help. Wish I could say what had been wrong.
    SDS-400, SDA-1B, SVS 20-39pc+, B&K Ref 50, Denon 2900
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  • debussyj
    debussyj Posts: 198
    edited March 2004
    Hi Kelley,
    I wish I could have been of more help. My 5900 in the beginning was giving me the weirds also, and then it just disappeared as mysteriously as it happened. Hey I'm glad it works now, but I'll be darned if I know how it got fixed. Are there ghosts in these machines??

    Happy Listening!

    DebussyJ
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2004
    Hell no we can't close it out. We want to know what the final finding is...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • therockman
    therockman Posts: 349
    edited March 2004
    I'm real curious about this myself, since I don't believe in audiophile gremlins.

    Rocky
    Rocky Bennett
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  • kelley
    kelley Posts: 287
    edited March 2004
    Bought the Eagles on DVD-A and bass works on that one too. Very strange. I did nothing to the setup and it has started to work. Guess I'll keep my fingers crossed that it will keep working. Mitch
    SDS-400, SDA-1B, SVS 20-39pc+, B&K Ref 50, Denon 2900
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