surround for RTiA5 and CSI A4

French_guy

Right now, I'm only running 3.1....I guess it's time to install surround speakers
I'm trying to find the best compromise SQ/Size/Price
I was thinking OWM3 or 5 (small and cheap) but not sure if it's the right choice....
There is also the Rti A1 (cherry, like my RTiA5) for $220/pair or the FxiA4 (but black) for $255...and maybe a little bit bigger
Since I have nothing right now, i would imagine whatever I get, it will be obviously better...But I don't want to have to upgrade in a few months
What would you recommend?

honestaquarian

What do you have for the front three channels?This information would help greatly to find a match for the rears.

honestaquarian

nbrowser wrote: »

honestaquarian wrote: »

What do you have for the front three channels?This information would help greatly to find a match for the rears.

He's got the RTi A5 towers and a CSiA4 in the middle.

French Guy, the A1s would be a good fit in any situation that said however the FXi speakers are great but do have requirements for mounting that need to be met as they are bi-pole/dipole (with a switch to set the mode). To be truthful a bit on the room layout would be helpful as in positioning of the seating area in relation to side walls/rear wall and how much distance to the front stage also.

YEAH
What HE said!

honestaquarian

The bass capabilities of all of Polk's speakers which use the power port still amazes me daily!! Even the small,vintage computer speakers that I use.We're not talking low bass for such small drivers.However the extension that can be had from such small drivers is amazing.
I have a pair of RT-35i's that I got robust 31.5 hz extension in my bedroom system once using a Pierre Verany test CD!!
Now I use one of them as a back surround in my living room theater. The hole in the top of power port plate is designed for wall mounting.

French_guy

The seating position (3 seat couch - left and right seats recline) is against the backwall. I have pretty large coffee tables on both side, were i could put speakers such as the RtiA1 or the FxiA4

honestaquarian

NOOOOOOO!!!!

NEVER,EVER,EVER put your surround speakers on a table or stand at or below ear level!!!!
When you walk into a movie theater and you see the surround speakers on the side walls.Where are they located?

Above the head.

Movie soundtracks are designed for this standard mounting position.

Each EVERY system where I came in and saw the surrounds at or below ear level.I told the owner to move them up.Every single person who followed my advice has told me they heard a LARGE difference for the better when they moved them above ear level.

honestaquarian

P.S. I've been in and out of the audio business for years.I still do it on the side.

French_guy

honestaquarian wrote: »

NOOOOOOO!!!!

NEVER,EVER,EVER put your surround speakers on a table or stand at or below ear level!!!!
When you walk into a movie theater and you see the surround speakers on the side walls.Where are they located?

Above the head.

Movie soundtracks are designed for this standard mounting position.

Each EVERY system where I came in and saw the surrounds at or below ear level.I told the owner to move them up.Every single person who followed my advice has told me they heard a LARGE difference for the better when they moved them above ear level.

You/I can't compare my family room with a theater....I think we all have to do some compromises at some point!
If the best option is on the wall over my head, I should probably go with OWM3 or 5 then....

honestaquarian

French_guy wrote: »

honestaquarian wrote: »

You/I can't compare my family room with a theater....I think we all have to do some compromises at some point!
If the best option is on the wall over my head, I should probably go with OWM3 or 5 then....

French
My living room is not to be compared to a movie theater either.However you seem to be missing my point. The very same movies that you will be watching with your home theater system were first released in a movie theater. The soundtracks of those movies were designed for systems that have surround speakers above the heads of the audience in every single movie theater that they play in. This is 100% standard around the world (*they actually have written, published standards for ALL of this stuff*) So therefore when playing those movies at home it is best IF possible (and it isn't always possible admittedly) to raise the surround speakers above ear level to get the sound intended for the audience to hear by the sound engineers. This no different than putting the center channel as close to the video screen as possible to lock the dialog where it belongs.
ON THE SCREEN.
Would you put the center channel on the left wall because your wife says it doesn't look good under the screen?
Of course not!!
The whole purpose of the design of a multi-channel system is to pull you into the movie and suspend disbelief for two hours. When the system is set up properly it works each and every time. Unfortunately a LOT of home theater systems are not.Largely because the owners do not know anything about how to do it properly. The speakers are in the wrong positions,the levels are off,the subs are set too high,etc,etc,etc. Since I do this and have been doing this on and off for over a decade,I see it all the time. The feedback that I have gotten from a lot of people when they followed the advice I give them about placement and levels is always the same.

They thank me

A lot of the changes are subtle,depending on the room.

Some of them cannot be properly implemented or the owner is unwilling to make the changes for any number of reasons. Aesthetics,WAF(Wife Acceptance Factor)physical dimensions of the room,etc.

However when one CAN make such a small change as moving the surround speakers above the head they ALWAYS tell me that suddenly the entire surround soundtrack opens up BIG TIME

French_guy

I get your point....no problem
But I'm not sure I could place the RTiA1 or FXiA4 on the wall over my head...So now big question:
What is best: getting not ideal speakers (OWM3) on the right spot (wall and overhead) or get better speakers (RTIA1 or FXiA4) on a not so good spot (ear level)

honestaquarian

French
You keep saying the owm3 or 5.
Do you mean this speaker?

http://web.polkaudio.com/products/awm3ii

honestaquarian

OOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW
I GET IT AWCHIE!!

Those would work perfectly,especially when mounted above ear level.

gudnoyez

Got my fxia6s as side surrounds on stands slighty above ear level no complaints here.

honestaquarian

The RTiA1's would be a better match for what you have in the front.Why do you say you cannot mount them up on a wall? They have the keyhole slot at the top of the power port plate just for that purpose.

This is my RT35i that I use for the back surround channel up on the wall above the couch.I used the keyhole at the top of the power port plate to do this.

trj

OP, you and I have very similar setup.
Living room/media room, 3 seat reclining couch almost against the wall. I am using RTi8s (older RTiA5s), CSi5 (older CSiA6) and RTi4s(older RTiA1) as surrounds in my living room. Using a set of DIY stands, RTi4's are resting just about a foot above ear level when sitting.

If you want a picture, let me know, I will take one tomorrow and post it. I was between FXi's and RTi's for surrounds as well, but my seating situation in my apartment doesn't really help much for speaker mounting on the walls, so RTi4s were my choice. And I am happy with them.

French_guy

trj wrote: »

OP, you and I have very similar setup.
Living room/media room, 3 seat reclining couch almost against the wall. I am using RTi8s (older RTiA5s), CSi5 (older CSiA6) and RTi4s(older RTiA1) as surrounds in my living room. Using a set of DIY stands, RTi4's are resting just about a foot above ear level when sitting.

If you want a picture, let me know, I will take one tomorrow and post it. I was between FXi's and RTi's for surrounds as well, but my seating situation in my apartment doesn't really help much for speaker mounting on the walls, so RTi4s were my choice. And I am happy with them.

Yes please, I would like to see a picture...Thanks
And I will post one of my family room

trj

French_guy wrote: »

Yes please, I would like to see a picture...Thanks
And I will post one of my family room

Here you go. Its not the cleanest setup and yes I am using books as stands for my RTi8s temporarily as I am doing some painting on my DIY stands soon. I am sure everyone is going to shout that there will tons of sound reflection. I know, but I have to make do with what I can realistically change in the apartment. Yah, I am getting the curtains, that will help a lot I am sure.

For a one bedroom apartment, I think I have a decent setup. I have no option of wall mounting the speakers since its an old house made of concrete and I am not going to drill concrete to mount the speakers.

I hope you get the idea.

French_guy

thanks for the pictures....Didn't have time to do mine
So your speakers are very slightly above ear level, but not that much, right?

honestaquarian

Trj
Get the surrounds up another two feet and I PROMISE you will hear a HUGE DIFFERENCE!

trj

French_guy wrote: »

thanks for the pictures....Didn't have time to do mine
So your speakers are very slightly above ear level, but not that much, right?

Correct. While sitting the tweeters are about a foot high. However, when I recline the surrounds tweeters are about 3 ft high. Not much choice because of the room layout.

trj

honestaquarian wrote: »

Trj
Get the surrounds up another two feet and I PROMISE you will hear a HUGE DIFFERENCE!

Trust me I would if I had a choice. If I make another DIY stand to add 2 ft, the speakers may topple and also the room would look super awkward.

honestaquarian

I too live in a one bedroom apartment and have gone WAYYY too far with my system admittedly.Of course I've been here 19 years and have been doing this for a living on and off for over a decade!
RT-35i Back surround
Monitor 5jr's left and right surrounds.All held on the walls with anchor bolts drilled into the plaster,concrete and brick behind it in one case (*depending on which wall we're talking about*)
This is the rear of an 8.2 channel system.
All Polk
I have been told by many who have heard it that it is the best system they have ever heard.
Not bragging,but speaking the benefits of proper setup,loudspeaker locations and control of room acoustics.
YES that is a curtain on the ceiling (*same heavy IKEA curtain that you see on the windows*) to control reflections and slap echo.AMAZING the difference that it made!!
And YES that is a 30 year old Radio Shack Archer FM Stereo Supreme antenna on top of the left surround speaker pulling in HDRadio

trj

^Thats some impressive stuff you have going on there.
For me, this is just a temporary place so don't want to put up that kind of effort. Plus WAF plays a big role too. She already puts up a lot with my different hobby stuff crammed into our apartment.
Planning on going full atmos when I move (soon). So, this setup will have to do while in an apartment. I have pondered many times to go with OWM3 as front heights because rear surrounds are not possible in the current layout. Probably raise the surrounds a little with some DIY blocks and OWM3 as front heights will be the maximum I will do here.
OP, you should have got a general idea by now about how and what will work for you.

French_guy

Here are some pictures of my family room - TV is a 64.5" Samsung plasma

honestaquarian

French
What are those stand mounted speakers next to your floor standers?

French_guy

These are Jamo Alto Signature bookshelf speakers, from my 1st home theater when I was still in France (yes, I'm French...)
I used to have 4 of them, but sold 2 and kept 2. They are not connected to anything for now......As you can see, my wife uses them for her Christmas decoration and a lamp
Maybe I should give then a try as surround speakers?

I just found this about them on a forum:
"I have been using a pair of Jamo Alto Signature book shelves for many years. They were made in Denmark, won an audiophile award in France in 1999, they sound lovely with sufficient bass for jazz and classical music. I really love the sound from those Jamo speakers, but just wonder if replacing them with a pair of modern high-end bookshelves would make it even better. Bearing in mind those Jamo speakers were award winning and were made in Denmark, I don't want to waste my time and money ending up with something worse. Also I don't need big floorstanding speakers as those Jamo book shelves already sound big enough for me"

trj

I can see you and I have similar layouts. I think you should try those Jamos as surrounds first, raising their height if the stands are adjustable or heck, pile some books to get it higher than ear level. It will help you decide whether you should go with RTiAs or OWMs. I feel, in your current layout, FXis are not feasible.

honestaquarian

I remember Jamo(*pronounced yahmo if memory serves*) Good stuff that.
So there's your answer French.Question is how and where?
Keeping them on the stands and putting the stands on top of the coffee tables next to the couch???
(*HORRORS*)

rpf65

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000VRREPG/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1450202226&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=tall+speaker+stands&dpPl=1&dpID=31CeDW6jIQL&ref=plSrch

These would be able to get those speakers high enough for surround duty

honestaquarian

Looks like both French and TRJ could use those stands!

French_guy

Should I orient them to have the speakers towards the ears, or should they face the opposite wall (TV wall)?