An honest review

Mike Reeter

Hey Tony, we just installed the same TV a couple of weeks ago. I haven't taken the time to perform any detailed calibrations.

I've been out of the HT loop for quite a while, where do you find your calibrations online?

Your observations on the Sony models are spot on, very pleased so far but I'm sure the picture "could" be a little better with some proper tweeking

heiney9

I dread the day I need to shop for a new TV. I love my Panny plasma and I don't want to use a week up training myself how to calibrate something new. I understand technology moves at a break neck pace, but honestly trying to keep up with a new phone, new media player, Windows 10, new smart TV's, intelligent cars, is a daunting task and I am very quick learner, but I just don't have or want to put in the time.

H9

Emlyn

One of the issues with these new sets is the number of tweaking options just within the user control menus, let alone the service menus. On my one generation earlier B model of the Sony there are 25 separate controls for the picture! Too much tweaking can actually put someone further away from what they want because of too many variables.

Most of those picture controls are off or on types. What I did with mine was selected Cinema 1 and adjusted the backlight down to 4 in my bright room. I also turned off or set to low all of the "enhancer" settings. The settings adjustable with a slider I left pretty close to 50 all round.

It is not a plasma quality but it is bright and the color is very good with no motion control issues. Viewing on this set is entirely in HD.

EndersShadow

I've honestly just considered paying the money for someone to come in that is ISF certified and calibrate my plasma TV for me.

The Bedroom LCD, couldn't care less about lol. But the HT, well thats a different story.

I've also debated having someone else come in and help me dial things in with XT32 as its acting funky with my setup so I'm obviously missing something....

tonyb

Mike Reeter wrote: »

Hey Tony, we just installed the same TV a couple of weeks ago. I haven't taken the time to perform any detailed calibrations.

I've been out of the HT loop for quite a while, where do you find your calibrations online?

Your observations on the Sony models are spot on, very pleased so far but I'm sure the picture "could" be a little better with some proper tweeking

Just google calibration settings followed by your model. AVS has some model specific threads with links also.

tonyb

Emlyn wrote: »

One of the issues with these new sets is the number of tweaking options just within the user control menus, let alone the service menus. On my one generation earlier B model of the Sony there are 25 separate controls for the picture! Too much tweaking can actually put someone further away from what they want because of too many variables.

Most of those picture controls are off or on types. What I did with mine was selected Cinema 1 and adjusted the backlight down to 4 in my bright room. I also turned off or set to low all of the "enhancer" settings. The settings adjustable with a slider I left pretty close to 50 all round.

It is not a plasma quality but it is bright and the color is very good with no motion control issues. Viewing on this set is entirely in HD.

Absolutely, and that's the aggravating part....too much tweaking available. The problem for me is the wife and I differ on what we want in a picture so I have to find that middle ground.

With these new sets compared to the old is kinda like how we describe audio. The new sets have more detail in the pic which can be a double edged sword. On good signals/material....it's better than plasma, but on bad it just shows you more of why it's bad. Cable channels, even in HD have a varying degree of quality, which makes it hard to adjust a pic for.

So just like audio, the more refined and detailed your system sounds, the more it's weaknesses become apparent. UHD TV's are in some aspects the same thing. Only difference is, is that you have no control over the quality of the signals your cable provider gives you. I don't see that changing anytime soon as they have yet to display 1080p on a consistent basis.

So you have the pro's and con's....from one animated flying squirrel chasing Dago.

tonyb

I should also mention that different models within brands come with obviously different features. Pick the features you want or that are important to you and then pick models that come with it.

For me, I don't need 3d, nor will I probably use any android features, heck I could do without a smart tv altogether. I wanted the triluminous display though and that lowest model came with features I'll never use. Kinda like buying a piece of audio gear with a million features you'll never use but the sound quality is heads and shoulders above the rest.

That's how I look at buying audio/video gear anyway. Have your priorities in check, and find who does them the best regardless of the bells and whistles that may come along for the ride.

WagnerRC

sounds like a real PITA, life should be more simple. Thanks Tony

cnh

Me, I'm waiting for 5D, that's where you get to watch your life in reverse, return to the womb and it's as though YOU never existed. It erases your personal history and solves the problem of death in ONE viewing! Can't beat that!! lol

erniejade

You all are making me afraid to change tv's !!!!

tonyb

erniejade wrote: »

You all are making me afraid to change tv's !!!!

LOL.....sorry if that's what I'm accomplishing here. I just want some to know the pro's and cons, things to look out for so they are prepared to make the best decisions that suits their needs.

To some, most of this will be nothing new if your used to LCD/LED sets. Those coming off a Plasma though, might pull their hair out a bit.

Like I said, these new 4k sets, like a good piece of audio gear, will exaggerate your cable providers strengths and weaknesses. Couple that with the weaknesses of LCD/LED'S technology and it can get quite aggravating.

For instance, we all know about different channels and the different volume levels they all play. This problem is amplified by the small speakers they have to put in thin TV's. On a scale of 0-100 for my TV's volume, I have to go above 70 to get decent sound and that's not loud at all. Then a commercial hits and your running for the volume control. So an added expense of a sound bar might be up your alley.

Doesn't bother the wife with the volume at 40 but then she has hearing like she spent 20 years in the jungle.

Speaking of sound, not all TV's pass a 5.1 signal either on their digital outputs, if your inclined to use that. Something else to pay attention to.

Also, don't forget the viewing angles. It's roughly 30 degrees to either side and the colors start fading.

erniejade

"Like I said, these new 4k sets, like a good piece of audio gear, will exaggerate your cable providers strengths and weaknesses."


When I first went to HD back in .. 06 or 07, I replaced my flat tube Samsung @130 lbs tv with a lcd, I was sooo disappointed with the cable quality picture. I called the TV manufacture's help line and they asked how was it hooked up? I said with the coax just like the other tv. They said that's your problem so, on the phone with the cable company and to get a box with hdmi and HD service in the house, I had to pay more. 1st it was a entire home HD service fee ( Comcast) and the box fee. I at first said this is a stupid charge for the whole house HD fee since without the cable box, I cant watch TV anyway and now I have to pay more money to get a picture like I had with the flat 130 lb Samsung tv I had. Because the new to me back in 06 or 07 TV resolution was much better, it showed every flaw and make non HD tv unwatchable.

So I fully agree with your quote above.

tonyb

Ha, now take that to the next level Ern. Same thing is happening and your being set up for it. You need a 4k media player now, but even then all 4k material isn't free, you have to pay for it. 4K Blu-ray disks will cost more money too. You gonna buy your video library...again ? Not this cowboy.

It's almost next to impossible to think that regular cable providers will be offering 4k anytime soon. Simply isn't enough bandwidth for it, let alone 1080p which we only see trickles of.

So that nice crisp 4k picture you see in the store while picking out your tv, don't expect that picture for regular broadcast viewing, not gonna happen.

tophatjohnny

Tony, yes it is like a computer so having your set tied in Ethernet and maintaining at least a 15 on the speed will insure great viewing, especially in footage that is shot in 4K and there's a ton of at your fingertips now. I'm sure you already know this.

tonyb

I'm thinking this is like Higher rez audio, you need to buy additional gear and pay more money for the material.

Technology is surpassing our ability to deliver both higher forms of audio and video for cheap to the masses.

....or maybe that's the way they want to keep it. After all, the goals aren't to bring anything better to the masses as cheaply as possible. You have to pay up the wazoo for quality anything these days.

tonyb

I keep finding, little things that jerk my chain.

With the TV wi-fi on, my sonos system wouldn't play my lossless files. It would play MP3 files from Rhapsody, but as soon as I went to play my lossless files I get the buffering issues.

Did the normal stuff, reset router, change channels....all to no avail. Turn the wi-fi off on the tv, all is in harmony again. This leads me to some conclusions.

These new smart TV's will prompt you during setup to share information with the likes of Google and Sony. You have that option to say no/yes. I of course chose no. However, during my trouble shooting process, it became apparent that the TV is using bandwidth even when your not using the wi-fi for content. Which is why my higher rez files wouldn't work but the lower rez files did....and my service is an upgraded one from Comcast, not the low rung stuff. Kinda like leaving multiple apps open and running on your phone, slows it down right ? Same thing with these TV's.

Interesting I thought, I'm wondering if, even though I chose no to share my info, if it still is anyway ? Like I said though, not really a big issue for me since I won't be using the wi-fi portion much at all on the tv, but for some I can see this being a problem.

Exactly how much bandwidth it uses I don't know. Obviously more if your actually streaming in from the apps or Netflix/Amazon. So if your already somewhat connected by other devices, laptops/tablets/numerous PC's, media/music servers, adding another smart device may reek havoc on your bandwidth feeding all.

erniejade

What kind of router do you have? Does it have a split network or a guest network? If your not doing any streaming to your TV, put it on your guest network so it keeps the bandwidth free for your lossless. In general, the guest wifi accounts on a lot of newer routers is a little slower vs the normal.

tonyb

No Ern, no options to do that so I'm guessing it's not. Who wants a slower guest option anyway ? Slow means buffering issues are likely to pop up.

erniejade

I thought you said you wouldn't be using the wifi on it much. I might have misread that. What brand is your router? For me when I went to an Asus dual band router from my old Belkin router, the difference was huge. We can stream HD to the living room sony blue ray, up stairs to the amazon fire, all 4 cell phones at the same time without a hiccup.

erniejade

My Asus is around 2 years old. The newer version looks even faster

Wireless AC2400
Ultra-fast 802.11ac Wi-Fi router with a combined dual-band data rate of 2334 Mbps for smooth up to 4K/UHD video playback, ultra-fast file-sharing of large files and low-latency online gaming.
World’s first 4x4 MU-MIMO antenna design with AiRadar universal beamforming for unrivaled multi-device performance and wireless signal coverage up to 465 m² (around 5,000ft²)1

or Tri-Band Wireless-AC3200 Ultra-fast 802.11ac Wi-Fi router with a combined tri-band data rate of 3200Mbit/s for smooth up to 4K/UHD

tonyb

erniejade wrote: »

I thought you said you wouldn't be using the wifi on it much. I might have misread that. What brand is your router? For me when I went to an Asus dual band router from my old Belkin router, the difference was huge. We can stream HD to the living room sony blue ray, up stairs to the amazon fire, all 4 cell phones at the same time without a hiccup.

It's Comcasts top router, if there is such a thing. You didn't get it wrong, I'm not streaming which is why turning it off isn't an issue for me, but for some it might be. That's why I brought it up, just an FYI in general.

Little things start adding up, and some may not be aware. You might have to upgrade your router in some cases, buying the brands media server for 4k viewing if that's your thing, buying a NEW hdmi cable too. My hdmi cable that worked fine on the Plasma, would not do so on the 4k set....even for just broadcast viewing.

A lot of these little things I was aware of before hand, some may not be. I knew what I could work around, do without, and what would cause me to throw rocks at it.

kevhed72

tonyb wrote: »

What it is really, is a marriage between TV's and computers. For the average Joe not into audio/video, these things are a bear to set up. Heck, I know I thing or 2 and it's still a pain in the balls.

What if I don't want a TV that has to connect to the internet ? You have to, that's how you upgrade software to fix bugs. Which I should have also stated, the tv will prompt you to do upgrades as soon as you turn it on from the initial setup. Do not skip this step, very important. It may take 10 minutes or 30 minutes, depending.

I dunno man, I just hate having to be "connected" for everything.

Tony, I just upgraded our secondary TV to a 60hz, 1080p Sony R510C, a much lesser TV than you have....but I agree on the internet connection. I paused quite a while before hitting YES on the setup, as Im not too hip on having my watching habits being tracked for marketing purposes. As far as the motion blur goes, I have really never noticed it with an LCD....mainly watching football or hockey. What I do notice is the 120hz processing, which looks terrible. I found the setup for my TV actually quite pleasant and the color right out of the box pretty darn good. But again, we are comparing apples and oranges here. I will say some of the movie content via DTV looked.....meh, as I still have to dive into adjusting the settings. The more I do watch this TV at night....I do have to dial down the brightness a bit. What I cant remember is if this should be via the backlighting or the actuall brightness setting (??)

tonyb

Depends on the tech in your TV's screen. Brightness, on Sony 4k TV's anyway, doesn't really control brightness. Backlighting, motion control/Gamma or a combination will, along with a bunch of other settings.

Just be careful about setting to the extremes. Edge lit TV's can be a bear when set too low or too high in any of the settings.

tonyb

Update.....don't know how I missed it, but there is audio settings for equalizing volume between program material and commercials. Actually works pretty good too. Also settings to bring voices more forward, but I found that to work only so-so.

The picture continues to impress though. Sports is simply top notch, though I could do without now seeing Phillip Rivers nasal hairs. Better than my plasma guys, don't be afraid to make the jump.

I can now see how some bad reviews come about. Aside from real issues in hardware/software, most problems are set-up issues, failures to update the software on start-up, or calibration issues. Certainly takes some monkeying around to get them to your preferences, but well worth it in the end.

Willow

I completely agree with you. After a week and a half of playing with my 4kSamsung, (its not their top of the line either) but when watching an HD show or BR it's like looking out of a window. If my Panny plasma didn't weigh so much I would put them side by side to compare, but new one is simply amazing.

tonyb

Glad your digging it Willow. Samsung and Sony have the best upscalers right now. Like I keep saying, buy a 4k tv not for 4k viewing, but for better 1080 upscaling which is 2160 for most program material.

Take the 4k marketing out of the equation, wouldn't you be interested in a 2160 set over a 1080 ?

They really did a good job this year fixing bugs from previous years. A fine job too in what appears to be a good marriage of LCD/Plasma technologies. If your in the market for a new tv, go grab one. Just bring some knowledge with you to buy it, and coffee and patience when you get it home.

Gatecrasher

I don't miss plasma. The new LCDs are awesome in their own right.

tonyb

I know this sounds crazy, almost impossible, but I could swear this thing has gotten better over time. Almost like it needed a few weeks to settle in.

The first couple days I was really on the fence about returning it. I have no problem doing so either as I bought local anyway. After monkeying with it, and simply giving it a chance to do it's thing, I don't notice as big a gap as the first few days between channel quality. Watching Zombieland on Scify last night and the pic was almost 3d-ish. Definitely a jump up from my plasma.

I should also mention the screens on these things are pretty fragile. Think twice if you have little ones who throw things around them. Think also about handling it too once you buy it and have to get it home and in the door. Can't imagine shipping these puppies and the risk involved. Treat them like egg shells and you'll be OK.

txcoastal1

Halen and I went to screw with Russman this weekend up at Best Buy, Russ has become quite the TV guru. I was surprised at the number of new 4K sets with edge light bleed. 30% of their floor models had it. Russ explained that it gets worse over time. Samsung sets seem to have it the worst but they weren't the only ones.

Keep on eye out for the edge light bleed.

The biggest surprise were the OLED's. LG has definitely been pounding the rock with this technology. Russ ran some demo's for us on these sets and wow. I've jacked with 3D for several years now with absolutely no interest nor have I ever been impressed, until now. The OLED 65" 3D was crazy good at every angle.

tonyb

Yeah, the Oleds are very nice, but they suffer from longevity issues so I'm told. About half of what a Plasma has....hour wise, and the price makes them out of touch for most buyers. Also hard to calibrate as the colors keep drifting due to the tech, so who knows down the road. Only time will tell.

Haven't experienced the light bleed yet, knock on wood. This set has been pretty uniform. I have noticed a slight darkening in the corners on certain material during certain scenes but if you weren't looking for it you'd never notice.

I pretty much look at every review, professionally and consumer related. Weed out the junk and look for the issues some say they have had. Light bleed on edge lit TV's certainly comes up a lot....as does clouding, and no brand is immune completely.

In audio, some of us listen carefully, pay attention to minute details in the sound and constantly dissect it, sometime to a fault.

Video is almost the same, you really have to look for something to discern a difference...OR it really has to stand out to the untrained eye. Some of these quibbles you read about under normal viewing circumstances will go unnoticed. Some may bother the heck out of you, all depends.

For me anyway, it's the obviously viewable things that concern me with video. Motion blur, color rendition, light bleed, or real bad clouding. If any of that pasts your viewing tests, you should do well.