An honest review

tonyb

I pretty much don't care about name plates on gear. A good product or bad is just that regardless. After spending some time with my 55-4k xbr850c from Sony, I thought I might put down some thoughts for those looking to make the jump.

Coming from a Kuro Plasma, my expectations are high. However seeing that most if not all TV's these days are lcd/led, you have no choice. The wife liked a brighter picture that an LED set has, I liked a tad warmer pic of a Plasma. So the search was on for a set to bridge those likes.

When you go look at TV's, they all have them setup in retail mode with 4k video playing. Wow, looks fantastic....too bad the majority of what you'll be watching is 720p and little 1080p from your cable provider. Now different sets handle that differently, but you'll never know that looking at them in the store. Samsung 7000 series and up and Sony seems to handle that lower quality better with their upscale engines better than most other brands.

Out of the box, immediate disappointment....no manual to tell you anything about what stuff does aside from hooking it up. Since most TV's these days are "smart", I figured it would be like setting up a computer. It was indeed, you are prompted for cable providers, wifi access, and a host of things. Everything connected easily, and fast so have that info ready and on hand. Tv came with 2 remotes, the smaller voice activated one has a learning curve to it but a short one. Has many options I'll probably never use, but they lowered the price on this to 1200 from 1600 so I grabbed it.

Out of the box, the pic is good but not great. Certain preset pic modes all need to be adjusted. Remote has a football mode which is good for sports but regular cable viewing is going to take you days to get the pic right. Btw....the screen is less reflective than Samsungs, which works for me given my lighting and windows. Also the viewing angle while poor on all lcd/led sets, is better than most.

To this day I'm still monkeying around with settings. I've gone online to get all the best calibration settings too and some are better than others but the bottom line is you still have to tweak it to your preferences. I've never had to tweak this much for a tv in my life so that's a pain in the arse. It was becoming obvious gone are the days of plug and play gear, audio or video.

The 4k upscaling engine is always on, however some program material looks good, some doesn't. Which to me is aggravating. You have different pic modes for sports, cable tv, animation, film based material. Who wants to keep fiddling with pic modes all the time ? So I'm looking for settings that will accommodate anything I watch, not so easy.

LCD/LED sets in general have the pro's and con's compared to plasma and those become readily apparent. Led's are brighter, sharper....more crisp. Plasma has better color rendition, no angle viewing to worry about, not as reflective, motion control isn't an issue. The sony has many adjustments and you can pretty much get rid of most motion blurr, but not all. Color rendition with the triluminous display of the Sony competes with plasma.

Gripes....mostly due to technology and not brand. I hate when viewing different channels I get different pictures, different pic quality. It was never so apparent on plasma. That's my biggest gripe. Pic on some material looks great but background can look somewhat fuzzy.

Incidently, the android software worked fine and fast. 4K video from Youtube looked fantastic even though I'm told that it's still 1080p.

Bottom line, I think I still preferred the plasma over all. I could just turn it on and not be so critical. However the wife likes it for the brighter pic. For me, watching tv shouldn't be a choir nor should I have to constantly want to change pic settings depending on material. Hopefully in the future TV's will evolve into a more pleasant experience.

Oh, one more thing. If your hooking up other gear like a BDP, make sure your settings on that gear is in tune with the change of TV. My Pioneer wouldn't work and went into protect mode. Silly me thinking I can just hook it up to an input and away I go. Did a hard reset on the BDP and in the BDP's menu had to change the video settings from Plasma to LCD, then the TV saw it.

BTW....the pic was very uniform, saw no clouding issues, light bleed, and very little banding.

tonyb

I might also add, that my gripes are mostly due to the technology differences between plasma and led. The Sony performs as it should. Good pic, Android worked fast and flawless, and suited my needs. Those needs may not reflect yours though.

The only area I can say the Sony fails in, is the "upscale everything" claim. It clearly doesn't and in some cases looks worse than a regular 1080P LCD/LED. You notice it more on channels that already have a good HD picture like ESPNHD.....looks spectacular.

steveinaz

I'm hoping my Panasonic 58" plasma hangs in there, I love it.

tonyb

What it is really, is a marriage between TV's and computers. For the average Joe not into audio/video, these things are a bear to set up. Heck, I know I thing or 2 and it's still a pain in the balls.

What if I don't want a TV that has to connect to the internet ? You have to, that's how you upgrade software to fix bugs. Which I should have also stated, the tv will prompt you to do upgrades as soon as you turn it on from the initial setup. Do not skip this step, very important. It may take 10 minutes or 30 minutes, depending.

I dunno man, I just hate having to be "connected" for everything.

gce

I dread the day my plasma's have to be replaced. Good review Tony, we need more of these as the plasma's fade into the gray.

gudnoyez

I only use my Sony XBR and my Oppo 105D as a pretty much a movie only combo, I rarely watch cable TV on it, however a friend of mines son works at a audio expressions and he calibrated my set for me for a 12 pack of warsteiners, the picture to me looks amazing, and I don't mess with any settings. Perhaps you should have it calibrated by someone familiar with the XBR series.

tonyb

gudnoyez wrote: »

I only use my Sony XBR and my Oppo 105D as a pretty much a movie only combo, I rarely watch cable TV on it, however a friend of mines son works at a audio expressions and he calibrated my set for me for a 12 pack of warsteiners, the picture to me looks amazing, and I don't mess with any settings. Perhaps you should have it calibrated by someone familiar with the XBR series.

If you don't mind, PM me those settings. It's not rocket science, just a matter of finding the right combination.

gudnoyez

He was going off settings he had written down on a sheet a paper I will get a hold of him and have him make me a copy.

EndersShadow

@tonyb

Where did the Kuro go?

I too have a Panasonic Plasma and WILL NOT be replacing it until it dies and actually will probably look for another used Plasma.

I hate gaming in LCD as I always seem to get lag and the soap opera effect.

For my bedroom LCD is fine and same with the loft. But the HT is going to stay plasma as long as possible!

ZLTFUL

I can't say that I had the same gripes or calibration/setup issues as you did Tony.
My Vizio, after the basic AVSForum calibration, has performed rather flawlessly.
In fact, everyone who has seen it (this was the 60 or so people who came through my old house during our home theater crawl and Chris Seymour of SeymourAV/Screen Excellence) have all been very surprised at the quality of picture from this budget set and only a quick and dirty calibration.

When switching from input to input, the only noticeable difference is when going from an HD source (DirecTV, BDP, HD streaming) to an up-scaled SD source.
Even 720P content from some early Blu-Ray rips I have has been solid.

WagnerRC

thanks for the info Tony. I appreciate it

cnh

Nice review, Tony!

I've seen some of those NEW "menus"! And there are all kinds of settings. Things you wouldn't even know are possible. The problem? A lot of things are on AUTO, and that may need to be turned OFF if possible because they can do things you might NOT want them to do. I pity the "average" consumer. Some items might require an internet search just to see what it is they are doing, unless you're a certified TV Tech. Because, as you point out, there is no longer any real documentation that comes with the set.

I've wondered some about the 4K upscaling and have thought that that might present a problem with some programming. Shame you can't turn that off when it's necessary!

In any case, looks like you have good sports viewing, so that's a plus.

Enjoy!

tonyb

gudnoyez wrote: »

He was going off settings he had written down on a sheet a paper I will get a hold of him and have him make me a copy.

Thanks man, I appreciate it.


Dan,
With these new sets, you can eliminate that soap opera effect entirely. Thing is finding a balance because eliminating it totally deprives the clarity. If you have a plasma now, I'd say wait. Unfortunately mine has an issue that will cost near 1k to fix.

CNH,

Yeah man, sports is a delight to watch. Thing is, you have such a variety of material even in just cable viewing. Different channels have different quality even in HD. On demand stuff is yet another or recorded shows. Then blu-ray and streamed material too. How do you calibrate one pic for all that ? You can't...which makes me believe the upscale engines in the older sets are actually better when it comes to 1080p or less material. Which is the majority of what people will watch anyway.

I know I'm sounding a tad harsh, but it's the tech, not the brand I have a bug up my arse about. The upscaling works fantastic, and is very noticeable on quality channels, or Blu-ray, but how many do we really have ?

erniejade

My tv is from 07. When I change channels, it takes the TV a few seconds to figure out what the display is so it stays black for 1-3 seconds. How fast does yours figure it out or convert?

Great review BTW. It does sound like a pain just to be able to watch different TV shows.

tonyb

Ern, it's fast....immediately. Changing to Android and looking up online stuff....fast. No delay when switching channels at all.

tonyb

Haven't tried Google cast yet as none of my phones have it. Another thing noteworthy is the IR blaster worked perfectly, picked up my cable box pronto. Thinking I could use just one remote, sounded like a good idea.

Nay nay....you get the cable guide, but no way to adjust it or tweak it like the regular cable remote does for on screen stuff. You can add favorite channels but there's too many steps to take by using the Sony remote to watch cable tv. Bummer....so I just programed the cable remote to control the TV and back in business.

tonyb

Well, I'm happy to report I think I finally nailed it. Took a couple different calibrations and combined the best of them. So far I get a great pic in any channel now, some are still better than others though but that's cable related.

Thing with online calibrations is they are adjusting to their tastes and viewing conditions so what works for one won't necessarily work for all. Tell ya what, now that I have this puppy dialed in about 90% to my satisfaction....it's better than my plasma. Yeah, I said it....take me off your Christmas card list if you will.

EndersShadow

Tony just for that I am sending you a glitter bomb... Just so you know....

And I'm not gonna say when lol...:

tonyb

EndersShadow wrote: »

Tony just for that I am sending you a glitter bomb... Just so you know....

And I'm not gonna say when lol...:

Ha....you know buddy boy, ya can't say "bomb" on the forum, might offend those Jihadist who love Polk speakers. lol

Gudnoyez,
Still want those cal. settings from you though, who knows, may even be better.

ken brydson

tonyb wrote: »

EndersShadow wrote: »

Tony just for that I am sending you a glitter bomb... Just so you know....

And I'm not gonna say when lol...:

Ha....you know buddy boy, ya can't say "bomb" on the forum, might offend those Jihadist who love Polk speakers. lol

Gudnoyez,
Still want those cal. settings from you though, who knows, may even be better.

Or on an airplane...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcK5gSRti4g

mantis

You know for years I keep looking at the NEW models from everyone. For years and years I have not seen a set best my Pioneer Elite Kuro 60 inch. I have however been wanting a better set like a 65-75 inch range.
The Last gen Panasonic was probably the closest thing I saw that almost made me pull the trigger but there was just something about the way Panasonic displayed video slightly different then the way I'm use to with the Kuro I decided not to get the new set.
The New Sony XBR's are damn nice. I'm no fan of LED what so ever as I calibrate ISF and over the years LED Tv's SUCK BUTT to calibrate and get right. You have to give to get that and so on and so forth.
I have not Calibrated a New 4k Sony yet but I from studying the picture, I'm thinking they might have what it takes to replace my Kuro. I have came close to picking up the 75 inch 900 as I'm way into that set but something inside keeps telling me I'm gonna miss my Kuro.
So for now I'm gonna sit tight and when the Kuro starts acting up, then I'll get a new one. For now I'll be cool if I can.

Nice write up my man, love honest from the heart words, I find them to have more meaning.

tonyb

Your right Dan, they are a pain in the arse to calibrate. Oled is even worse I hear because the colors keep drifting due to the technology.

Now that I have it dialed in fairly well, the pic is fantastic. Still, the led technology has it's drawbacks and you need to pay attention to those to see if it will fit your needs or not.

For instance, the viewing angles. Mine is setup in a corner, and opposite is a couch and loveseat set up in an "L" configuration. The center of the tv points right at the middle of that "L". Because of this, the viewing angles didn't seem like they'd be a problem for me. However sitting at the last seat on the 3 seater couch, you do notice a slight fading, but not too bad and probably not even noticeable to the untrained eye.

....and this TV is one of the better ones at viewing angles. Also, if your going to mount them on a wall, you better get an adjustable wall bracket. The viewing angles left to right work the same for height also.

Reflections....Samsung screens are highly reflective the 8000-9000 series are better. This can be a big distraction given the lighting in your room or windows. This is the reason I went with the triluminous display, less reflective but comes at the cost of a tad less clarity over other screens. The colors though are very plasma like, which is my draw.

I also happened to notice when setting mine up, theirs an option for "retail display". Being the curious guy I am, I had to see. Fully over blown colors but looked awesome on 4k Youtube stuff, which as you know is what is displayed in stores. That's why so many look alike when you go shopping, and also means the kid at bestbuy no longer has to calibrate anything. Turn it on and put on retail mode and your done. When asked to play regular cable channels though, they look like garbage because they still have it in retail mode. I walked away from many other sets seeing that garbage not knowing what was happening.

Other than that, the wifi connected right up and hasn't dropped since, about 40 feet from my router in another room. Android works fast and smooth.

Reading reviews, especially customer reviews, will have you scratching your head at the different varying reviews. Most are user faults, not brand specific faults. You have to read between the lines, like with anything, to decipher.

Just some general FYI for those shopping for a TV this time of year.

tonyb

Ya know I forgot to cover another thing....sound. All lcd/leds these days have terrible sound.....well, less than what your used to from older sets. Thinner the set thinner the sound it appears.

With this Sony, you need to turn off the "Clear audio" selection, and put it on cinema. The sound becomes more what your used to, but still doesn't go as loud or as full.

deronb1

Tony, the IPS panels are fantastic for off axis viewing. LG 4k uses primarily IPS. If you decide to change, check em out. I would go with an 8000 series or higher as the lower models contrast and black levels arent the best.

gudnoyez

Ok Tony he called me this morning and read to me over the phone I will go to my settings and see if they match what I wrote down so I will PM you in a bit. I need a couple of mountain dews in me first.

erniejade

I have learned a lot in this thread. I had no idea on the retail setting or how much you had to calibrate them.

nooshinjohn

gudnoyez wrote: »

He was going off settings he had written down on a sheet a paper I will get a hold of him and have him make me a copy.

i could use those as well. I have the 70 inch model of the same tv.

gudnoyez

I just sent them to Tony I can send them if you like, lets see if Tony has something similar to what I sent him. I also have a 105D in play with the Darby set at 30%. Tony let us know how you end up, I wont touch mine settings as I think the calibration mine was set at looks fine.

EndersShadow

gudnoyez wrote: »

Ok Tony he called me this morning and read to me over the phone I will go to my settings and see if they match what I wrote down so I will PM you in a bit. I need a couple of mountain dews in me first.

Cmon man, you don't already have at least 3 downed by 10? Slacker

BlueFox

tonyb wrote: »

gudnoyez wrote: »

I only use my Sony XBR and my Oppo 105D as a pretty much a movie only combo, I rarely watch cable TV on it, however a friend of mines son works at a audio expressions and he calibrated my set for me for a 12 pack of warsteiners, the picture to me looks amazing, and I don't mess with any settings. Perhaps you should have it calibrated by someone familiar with the XBR series.

If you don't mind, PM me those settings. It's not rocket science, just a matter of finding the right combination.

Do TVs still have a 'service mode' area where a trained individual with test equipment tweaks the TV to get the optimum calibration out of it? If so then that is what you need to do. It is money well spent.

tonyb

BlueFox wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

gudnoyez wrote: »

I only use my Sony XBR and my Oppo 105D as a pretty much a movie only combo, I rarely watch cable TV on it, however a friend of mines son works at a audio expressions and he calibrated my set for me for a 12 pack of warsteiners, the picture to me looks amazing, and I don't mess with any settings. Perhaps you should have it calibrated by someone familiar with the XBR series.

If you don't mind, PM me those settings. It's not rocket science, just a matter of finding the right combination.

Do TVs still have a 'service mode' area where a trained individual with test equipment tweaks the TV to get the optimum calibration out of it? If so then that is what you need to do. It is money well spent.

Those adjustments are available to the average user now, so anyone can tweak. Except we don't have the equipment to tell us what is visually correct. Then again, just like audio, what is correct to your eyes may not be to mine and we are playing preferences. Also one set of calibrations is not universal, and what I mean by that aside from preferences, is screen technology varies between brands and model numbers. Even the quality of that that screen within the same model number can vary depending on when it's made.

Different settings do different things to the picture and that varies with brand and models.

Also of note to you shoppers out there this week. Something I learned along the way, was try to stay away from the off numbered models. Those are made for places like Walmart/Costco but they use inferior screens to the brands main models. Which btw...is why they are cheaper. That's part of the reason you see a lot of negative reviews for certain brands.

Sony doesn't partake in that game, which is why you rarely find them outside the big box stores. Some sets to keep an eye on are anything Samsung in the 8000 or 9000 series, look for sales on those great all around TV's with fantastic pics also.

On a Budget....the Vizio M series C3....if it didn't say Vizio on the front, you'd think it was an LG or Samsung 6000 series. It really did have a good pic.

Last years model Sony 850b's, some still have them. The 850c is this years model of that TV and the Android system from what I'm told works better and faster.

The Sony 800b and 810c, 2014/2015 models are minus the 3d and triluminous display but not shy on a great pic either. To my eyes, the models with the triluminous display had a more plasma like color rendition which was what I was looking for.

I liken TV shopping today to a 2 channel stereo receiver and a HT processor of today. You now have an infinite about of adjustments but that also gets aggravating because user manuals are non existent or scarcely provided with limited info. You eventually figure it out, but don't be under the idea your going to take one of these home and plug it in and start watching TV in 10 minutes.