Disappointed in my new RTI-12-Help?!
Options
I have been the more then happy owner of a Yaqin MC30 tube amp powering Klipsch 4.5's for well over a year. I just loved the sound! Then I found the RTi-12 on sale for a crazy price and went for them. After a week of good listening, all I can say is I'm disappointed. The sound is best described as muddy and lacking clarity. The Kilpsch's sounded so musical, warm, and natural. They filled the room with color and 3-dimentional sound. The rti's sound meaty yes, but I don't hear the musical clarity I would have assumed. They sound very flat with no dynamics to me right now like its all low end and mids.
They are very loud even at low levels so I do not think it's that the amp isn't driving them (50w/per). Any ideas, suggestions? Do they maybe need some break in time? Thanks in advance.
They are very loud even at low levels so I do not think it's that the amp isn't driving them (50w/per). Any ideas, suggestions? Do they maybe need some break in time? Thanks in advance.
Comments
-
It's the amp. The Klipsch are very easy to drive which is why they sound great on a 50 watter. The RTI12'S need current to sound good and lots of it. A ss amp in the neighborhood of 200 watts per channel will wake them up. Look for a used Parasound 1200 or 1500 which can be had for 4-500 clams.
Make sure the jumper plates are intact on the rear too between top and bottom posts if your using a single run of cable.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
It's called "listening preference" you obviously like your Klipsch better---nothing wrong with that.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
-
ok let me see if i could help here.
You have a 50wpc integrated correct? you went from a very efficient 95 db two way speaker to a much more power hungry and complex 3 way speaker with a 90db efficiency.
Those will wake right up and sound better with a amp that has much more power and the current to match to get better control over all those woofers. -
I haven't owned the 12s, but I have owned the rti6s and while they are nice home theater speakers, especially to the money, they are just not the best two channel line, and weren't intended to be.
Otherwise I think the previous posts addressed the two main issues:
1. Lots of people love higher end or older klipsch with tube amps. You are clearly in this camp, so rock on.
2. The 12s are much more difficult to power, so you need a ballsy amp to really them. But they are still going to sound very different than the klipsch, so you may want to cut your losses rather than invest in a higher powered ss amp.
Good luck!Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
This is basically what I was thinking. If you got a crazy deal on them, just re sell them they are loved in here by many so I don't see you having an issue reclaiming your funds.It's called "listening preference" you obviously like your Klipsch better---nothing wrong with that.
Or simply return them as they are not for you.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Klipsch are going to sound more dynamic, up-front, and driven. Some people prefer this sort of "punchy" presentation because it adds a layer of realism with its "in-your-face" flavor. I'd love to have a pair of Hereseys (sp?) for my garage rig.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
-
It's called "listening preference" you obviously like your Klipsch better---nothing wrong with that.
It's not a preference thing yet, i just honestly don' t think these sound the way they are supposed to. Lack of highs and just do not sound "musical" for lack of better term. No Dynamics in the sound. -
missing highs? as Tony mentioned above, are you sure those jumper straps are in place and tight? if anything those things should be ALL highs if you don't have an amp.I disabled signatures.
-
2. The 12s are much more difficult to power, so you need a ballsy amp to really them. But they are still going to sound very different than the klipsch, so you may want to cut your losses rather than invest in a higher powered ss amp.
Good luck!
Ok thanks! I guess it's the amp from what youre all saying. Like i said, the amp gets them so loud i would never need to go past 11:00 on it. The speakers are rated starting at 50w so i thought the amp would do the job quality-wise. -
missing highs? as Tony mentioned above, are you sure those jumper straps are in place and tight? if anything those things should be ALL highs if you don't have an amp.
Ok I will check that when i get home. Are you talking the metal piece behind the speaker posts? -
Yes. As an aside, replace the cheap jumpers with some quality wire for even better results.
-
If you put your ear up to the tweeter, is it working on both speakers?
If not maybe unscrew the binding post plate and make sure all the wires are secured. I doubt that would be the issue but it's a base to cover.
Also pull the tweeter and make sure the tweeter is connected correctly, proper polarity. Never know if someone had been inside there before. -
missing highs? as Tony mentioned above, are you sure those jumper straps are in place and tight? if anything those things should be ALL highs if you don't have an amp.
Checked the jumpers and they're good. Tweeters are working on both speakers. They just sound flat, like every instrument sounds the same. No dynamics. -
I didn't like my twelves at all when I got them, now they sound absolutely awesome. Matter of placement, quality power, and source, maybe a little time to break in too. Once you get it right you'll know and you'll have a big grin on your face.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
-
My a9's took about 400 watts of Sunfire power to wake them up. But 200 will work too. I powered them with an xpa3 and they did just fine. Definitely didn't sound flat.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
I had RTi10's. +1 for some break-in time.
Flat sound may be a tough one to figure out. Sorry man, the jumpers thing and an amp was all I had.Post edited by msg onI disabled signatures. -
The speakers sound flat because they are not artificially boosting the highs and lows like the klipsch. The rti has a flat frequency response, therefore the speakers need some power to wake up and become more dynamic. When this happens you will be enjoying an incredibly accurate loudspeaker that recreates the music as intended.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
-
jeremymarcinko wrote: »The rti has a flat frequency response, therefore the speakers need some power to wake up and become more dynamic.
So long story short, is that tube amp with 50w per isn't enough to really "hear" these as intended. That's really unfortunate. I thought I'd be set for life! -
You might consider getting a SS amp to run the lowers and use your tube amp for the highs. The first 2 orders are sucking most of your power leaving very little for the third.
-
"Muddiness" can be reduced by moving the speakers farther from back/side wall boundries. Try to get at least 18" from the back of the speaker to the back wall, and avoid corners as much as reasonably possible. You may also want to toe them in more for more top end. If they are sitting on carpet, try putting them on clay tiles. The idea is to "tighten" things up a bit.
There's a BIG tonal difference between Klipsch and Polk.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
I agree with Steve here in that they need to be away from corners and walls. However, I find that with the 12's the top end is more pronounced and greater presence when the towers are only toed in a very little bit, to not at all. I would try different positions to determine which way sounds best to you.
Here is a video of my 12's in action...I realize the recording is crappy and you are listening through your own speakers, but you can tell the the RTI's are very capable and have the ability to be dynamic and balanced.
https://youtu.be/4VvDRLJaYZM Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
How far are yours away from the wall in that video? They are so darn deep I'm not sure how far out I can come!
-
12-15 inches and toed in about a half inch. My room is 22x24 and I sit roughly 11 ft away.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
-
Very nice @jeremymarcinko2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.
