How many of you are running dual front center speakers?

trubluluc · March 2004

Hey guys-

I've been thinking about a dual setup,
hoping to be able to widen the sweetspot
and increase the amount of center channel output.
If you're running a dual rig, did you notice a decent gain?

-Luc

mantis · March 2004

What s the size of your room?

Why do you feel you need this?

Whats your current centerchannel not doing correctly?

Most center if not all center channels are designed to run independent.I have never found a need for dual center channels.I have configured systems in very large rooms with only one center channel.I believe your problem might not lie in the center channel but in overall placement and setup of your current system.

You also might not have the correct amount of power to drive your system.

Dual mains/center channels I feel is a waste.Better quality speakers of amps or a combo of both can cure this......unless your room is extremely wide I feel no need in this.

My opnion

RSTERN · March 2004

With a 32 in. tv one center was enough for me. When we went to the 65 w.s., The center was on top of the tv and for me if was easy to tell where all the sound was coming from. Ran across a deal on close out csi40 and hooked 2 up to the yamaha and the center disappeared. The sound seemed to blend alot better.
My centers set on top of the entertainment center about 12in. above the t.v.

Rob

Tour2ma · March 2004

scottvamp has long championed the dual center idea 'round here... search on "steroids".

I can defintiely see the advantage if placed above and below the screen. Even on my 36" tube I can hear the conversation coming from above the picture at times.

This arrangement would also pull off-axis viewers back to the center, whereas side by side centers would pull to the side the viewer was sitting.

trubluluc · March 2004

The room is not very big, 14x18.
I'm running a polk CS1000 run by a
yamaha RX-V1 receiver used as a preamp into a big Sony amp pushing 150 w/c.
The center sits atop of a mits 55" rp.
(pic in showcase)
I am running dual mains and at times I think the dialog is a little overwhelmed.
I don't have the subs on the cs1000 hooked up, nor do I feel I need to, as I'm running dual subs.

My plan is to replace the cs1000 with
two cs400i, figuring 4 midrange drivers and two tweeters will give me a crisper center stage.

I'll check out Scottvamp's rig.

-Luc

mantis · March 2004

hook up the sub on the cs1000p and the problem is solved.The center chaneel is designed to work with the sub working.It's not support to be an LFE sub but a way to reproduce deeper bass from the centerchannel.

This center channel is quite capable of filling your small to medium size room.Don't waste your money on buying 2 centers,recalibrate the system and find out what you have been missing out on.

Powered speakers are designed to use the sub,it's part of that speakers make up.

Blend the sub......

Dan

Tour2ma · March 2004

Might help if actors have a really deep voice... He's essentially running a CS400 high passed at 150 Hz.

Originally posted by trubluluc
I am running dual mains and at times I think the dialog is a little overwhelmed.

Is your system calibrated?

warviper · March 2004

If you are going to get rid of the cs1000p I think that Loud and Clear would like to purchase one.

kelley · March 2004

I run 2 cs400's due to the fact that my room is smaller and if I use one center I can pick out the sound whether it is coming from above or below the tv. I'm only sitting about 7 feet from the tube.

Tour2ma · March 2004

So kelley, you're running one above and one below? Picture?

Early B. · March 2004

Kelley -- I sit about 9 feet from the TV. You could try using a single center channel and tilting it to ear position. I have my center channel (Csi40) underneath the TV, but it is tilted upwards with a $3 door stop from Office Depot. The sound seems like it's coming directly from the TV.

kelley · March 2004

I used to have a single center under the tv angled up but I guess I just started to focus on it and finally couldn't take it anymore. I cleared the pic from my computer but I had posted it before on this topic. Here's a link. They actually blend in well when viewed from directly in front as the pic was taken to the side because of flash on the screen. I know it's a little cluttered also. It's even worse now!
http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16282

VR3 · March 2004

My................. does, Two KEF bookshelfs, ran together with an Adcom GFA-535...

When I get my own house, you won't be seeing me with a conventional center channel. That is all I have to say. There is NO comparison.

Thank you Scottvamp for the idea!

trubluluc · March 2004

Originally posted by mantis
hook up the sub on the cs1000p and the problem is solved.The center chaneel is designed to work with the sub working.It's not support to be an LFE sub but a way to reproduce deeper bass from the centerchannel.

I will try this, though it appears that the cs1000p is really a cs400i on steroids, (with an additional two 6.5 subs.)
I would think the crossover would be no higher than 80 and thereby no real voice info would be lost by not hooking up the sub.
But, as I have never hooked them up I can't say that for sure.

-Luc

trubluluc · March 2004

Originally posted by Tour2ma He's essentially running a CS400 high passed at 150 Hz.

Is your system calibrated?

Tour2ma-

You think the crossover is set that high?
I would think around 80Hz or so.

Calibrated? Yes and No.
Yes I originally calibrated it, but it had the mains set too low, and since I listen to alot more music than watch movies, I turned them back up .

-Luc

Tour2ma · March 2004

The comment on the high passing is straight out of the specs... pretty much surprised me as well.

150Hz 2nd order electrical HPF on both drivers,

http://www.polkaudio.com/home/specs.php?recent=1&category=5&speaker=40

As for the calibration, your reply pretty much states your problem, i.e., you juiced the mains. I assume the Yammie AVR can't remember individualized speaker cal settings for its various modes. Can't you simply up the master volume to taste in the 2 ch mode?

trubluluc · March 2004

Wow, I had no idea I was missing out on that much info (everything below 150Hz).

Next question:

My receiver only has one mono jack, which I split into two to run both stand alone subs.
But it does have a couple of "split sub-outs" (red and white).
Could I use these together and run them into the center channel sub jack?
Or should I split the mono again, (in to thirds) and connect that to the center subs?

Thanks,

-Luc

trubluluc · March 2004

Polkdoctors

Yeah I'm kind of anxious to try it out, wondering way to go so I know which connector to get.

scottvamp · March 2004

Thanks for the props guys!!!!!!!!
70% of your HT frontstage is ALL center channel. I am currently running 3 CS400's. Works very well..........

trubluluc · March 2004

How do you have it wired?
I think two will suffice for my setup.

-Luc

PolkWannabie · March 2004

Originally posted by scottvamp
TI am currently running 3 CS400's. Works very well..........

Over, under and ?

mantis · March 2004

I'm only gonna leave my opnion then I won't post here anymor.

Take it for what it is.

I feel your over thinking it.There is no need for 2 center channels.None.When a system is properly setup,speakers are placed as well as can be for the given room,seating is as good as the room will allow,the proper quality of wire is used,the proper amount of power for the given speakers is used,you will find no need for a second center channel speaker.

Youo all can do whatever you like,not my system but I know from experience that this line of thinking is over thought.

Don't take offence as this is my opnion as a professional and as a hobbist.

Dan

VR3 · March 2004

Originally posted by trubluluc
How do you have it wired?
I think two will suffice for my setup.

-Luc

For two center channels -

Center preout on receiver/preamp - run one cable, at the amp run a y splitter to both inputs from the cable. If this isn't possible, use a patch cable (2), with a y splitter at the receiver/preamp. Then run speaker wire to the centers, right or left channel - dosn't make a difference.

For 3 centers likes Scott, plug one center into the receiver via speaker wire, then do the above steps for the other 2 centers.

Dan,
Have you tried dual centers before? (if you havnt, you MIGHT be surprised

)

Tour2ma · March 2004

Originally posted by trubluluc
My receiver only has one mono jack, which I split into two to run both stand alone subs.
But it does have a couple of "split sub-outs" (red and white).
Could I use these together and run them into the center channel sub jack?
Or should I split the mono again, (in to thirds) and connect that to the center subs?

First, I don't understand your use of mono out for feeding your sub's... Then again I don't understand what the mono out is... Front channels only, i.e., L + R?

The problem is that with the 1000's "sub" covering as high as 150 Hz, it's sound will be locatable (sp?). Ideally you'd feed it the same signal the center is being feed. Surprised that does not seem to be an option here.

I would consider trying the split sub outs to the subs and the mono to the center's line level input. And see how that does. Strikes me that the sub out could have a little bass info from the surrounds that you've not been getting from the mono. You'd want this info going to you subs, but not your center (or its "sub").

warlocks1 · March 2004

trubluluc, do not run your LFE into the center. It cannot handle it. I think the center is only rated down to 45 or so Hz. If you don't have a pre out for the center, just use speaker cable from you center binding post on your receiver and leave the metal connecting straps on speaker and plug in the power cable. If you have a preout for the center, run the speaker wires to the top binding post and remove the metal straps. Run a rca cable from your center preout into the input on the back of the 1000p. The hard part is calibrating the subwoofer level. You really need a test disc to get it right. Youi can download the manual fro the Polk website. I would set the crossover in your receiver to small and 80 Hz unless you have a 60 Hz option. I have a CS1000 in a 20 X 30 room running 280 watts into it and I couldn't imagine needing another center.

scottvamp · March 2004

Thanks for the help sid even though I have explained this many of times.
I use the center preout on my Onkyo reciever which feeds into my Onkyo two channel amp with same exact power/specs as the reciever. One center is powered by the reciever the other two are powered buy the TWO channel Onkyo. Simply calibrate as normal.
One of my BIGGEST improvments since 6/7 channel.

Tour2ma · March 2004

Originally posted by warlocks1
Youi can download the manual fro the Polk website.

Duh... took a look and it does help. Did not stop to think it's one of those pseudo bi-amp capable arrangements ala some of the "p" series and other mains... Good stuff wl1.

Would you at least recommend trying the 1000 on large? Two things I'm thinking here:
1. The dual mains
2. Waste of a 1000's capabilities...

Just a few more thoughts...

warlocks1 · March 2004

I would try running it large if you are not using SACD or DVD-A. Some of those discs seem to send a lot of bass to the center and I have bottomed out the subs a couple of times. If you have a good subwoofer, let it do the work it was made to do. I went through the same conflict when I first got the cs1000. You want to justify the large amount of money you just spent. It is a great center, but it really isn't made to handle low freqs. I have tried both ways and decided to leave it set on 80. Try it both ways and see which you prefer.

ohskigod · March 2004

i use a mair of monitor 5's for my front channel. as i have mentioned before, it works like a charm.

trubluluc · March 2004

The "sub split" thing, (from the manual) is to give a degree of (stereoesque) nuance, if running dual subs. I remember trying this and being somewhat dissapointed with their performance, so I used a Y connector to split the "mono" signal out to both subs, and it works well.
I thought the imput on the back of the cs1000p was for a direct LFE imput, so I again used a Y connector from the "sub split out" jacks to the center channels imput.
As per Warlocks, this is probably too much info for the cs1000p subs.
So for now I have put back the little gold connectors (polk) and turned up the volume control of the subs on the cs1000p.
I think I'd like to try bi-wiring at some point.
But would also like to hook up a couple of cs400's and compare.
I'll keep you posted.

-Luc

How many of you are running dual front center speakers?

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