My next speaker help please. Long post.

erniejade

Over the years, my taste in sound has changed a little bit. When i was younger it was volume and bass. Early 20's Infinity and late 20's I got into the JBL sound and like a lot in my age range had a set of L100 and moved up to the L150. From memory, that was one of my favorite speakers. In my 30's I wanted huge monsters and I had more money to play with and then came the carver amazing, SDA 2.3, 1.2, in the basement rig in a nice big room, Vandersteen 3a in my living room rig. I was quite content going between all of them. Then I heard the Legacy Focus and got a pair of them.They had the open sound of the amazing but the bass of the sda. Actually after I got the focus, I found the sda hollow sounding. I am sure if I would have done the crossover upgrade and tweeter change it would have changed my mind about them since they were stock and original.

As a lot of you know I got marred in the last few years, now 47 and in a small room that has issues since i converted the basement into bedrooms and a den. Since I have had the den, I have gone through more speakers then people go through in a lifetime and some of them were very good in one way or another in other peoples rooms but not my room. I changed amps, preamps, cables, but I still could not get the sound I wanted due to the room. Along comes corner traps a mini dps unit and that helps quite a bit with some of the room corrections but it's still not right.

So, what am I looking for? I want something thats not fatiguing, easy on the ears at higher volume but, still shines at low volume. I find a LOT of speakers might sound good kicked up but, for lower listening sound lifeless. Something that images well but, doesn't sound like it came from an echo chamber. Something that is not picky on room placement since this room is not good, its limited on where I can place speakers. Right now I can either get the image ok an no bass or great bass an no image at all. To combat this I added the velodyne spl1200 back into the mix.

Right now I am going between the Polk SLI9 and Mythos STS. I know a lot of people say the polks have a bass hump and when I brought them to a local dealer Holm Audio I definitely heard it but, in my room, they do not. Actually at holm I thought the bass on them was huge and bigger then the speaker looks and did not need a sub but here in this room I have to run the sub. The lsi9 are easy to listen to for a long time kicked up but, at lower volume, they are not exciting. The sound in my room does not expand much beyond the speakers and I cannot make them disappear in the room. I can get them to sound good but,no where near what I heard at the store without a sub. While the top is pleasing, in my room I would like a little more excitement on this end. The SLI9 are very coherent at near field listening.

The mythos sts have amazing imaging! The sound extends well beyond the speaker. The mids are solid and they don't sound bad at lower volume. The top end is good but, it can get a little bit too hot on some music when pushed for my taste. A few friends I have heard them did not think this at all. They could hot hear what I heard and thought I was crazy. They were shocked on the sound of them actually and 2 or 3 of them are now looking into them or Goldenear. Even though they have built in subs an can go deep, in my room to get them to sound right I am still using the velodyne! To get the bass suck out on the bookshelf that's built into the wall ( 18" deep 6+ feet long) I am basically almost over energizing the room to combat it so, in a 10X11 room, 2 300 watt subs built into the speaker and the velodyne spl1200 crossed-over at 40 hz and 3 on the volume. Now I could just put in my 3mica 5751 to tame the top down but, because I am basically 67-69 inches from the speaker, there is a little bit of a disconnect where I can hear where the top is coming from instead of it being more together. The speakers are 4-4.5 feet between.

So I have come to the conclusion as long as I am in this room, I need a thicker sounding speaker that can image like they mythos, coherent at near field, not too hot on top but, still clear and mids that are close to the mythos. I also want something detailed but, forgiving on lesser recordings. I feel like I am basically describing Vandersteen, Legacy, Carver Amazg and SDA all rolled up into something that will sound like them in this bad room.

BTW the mythos sts really are a solid speaker and I feel if I had another 2 feet to play with or the bookshelf was not the huge suckout, they would stay. They are that good.

So, am I describing what the Brystons might do for me? Or LSIM 705? Or the PSB Imagine T2.

tonyb

It's hard to say Ern, what these speakers will do for you. Especially given that room, which as you already know most speakers will sound different in there.

You might have to do a lot of trial and error to hit your huckleberry. We can suggest things all day that sound good in a proper room, then you'll get it and put it in that small room and the sound will totally change.

I might suggest to keep the Mythos if you like them that much and maybe tinker with some cables or gear to see if you can get them to fit your sound requirements a tad better. Finding perfection in just a speaker alone will have you constantly swapping and shipping and never achieving your goal. I know that doesn't help much, but you seem darn close with the Mythos, why not keep them and tinker with other things ?

erniejade

Thanks Tony, now im kicking myself for not getting the mit s1 when they were on clearance! . I am bouncing between dougs alpha's ( purple not the black and white bi) and the dh labs. Because the mythos have a deep recessed speaker input, I cannot use dougs without changing the spades. I can barely get them in and they are not secure. The dh labs spades are smaller and easier to fit but still a little difficult. I need to change to bananas.
the ic's are all air matrix dh labs. Maybe its time to change them. Or I can try another preamp. The mini dsp I picked up from enders is fun and has helped quite a bit to dial things in. I sometimes take it out of line to hear the difference. Right now I don't have it in so I can just hear the speaker.

Some people say the goldenear has a smoother top but I worry about coherent and localized on the drivers since I am 67" away.

Anyway I did have a set of mit s3 for a bit and I liked the dh labs a litle better and wound up returning them. Maybe the s1 would have givenme more bass?

erniejade

Hopefully the vi tube dac wont be too much longer. They got the ss non vi versions shipped out already. When I do testing, I mainly use the cayin with sacd.

mantis

The Mythos STS are a pretty damn good speaker. I almost purchased them myself. i went back and forth with them as they have some serious magic to them.
I ended up getting the Bigger Mythos ST's. They are just a tad bit cleaner, deep a bit deeper and fill larger rooms better.
In your description of what your looking for, the Mythos STS is an awesome choice. I say go for it man. You do need good clean power to drive them correctly. Poor electronic show poorly with them.

msg

you know, I didn't catch your mention of the LSiM's in my first read, but did catch it on the second. I was wondering whether you'd tried/considered them.

Since you like the LSi9's, have you considered the 703's? I'm between speakers right now and have been using my 703's in my main space, sometimes with sub, sometimes without. I'm really enjoying them both ways, depending on the material. they were just so-so at first, kind harsh, I thought, but really seemed to smooth out after significant use. they're nice at lower to mid/modest listening levels, and do okay at higher, but do seem to get a little congested when way up there in volume. probably a combination of things, with placement and my room being the biggest offenders.

I'm also told there's a frequency void/skip, though; I can't remember specifically how it was described to me by a senior member, and then backed up by another, both of whom have much more experience than I. anyway, may be worth considering if you can get some in there to check out. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts if you were to try a set of 703's and 705's. I've been so pleased with the 703's that I'd like to try 705's.

erniejade

soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=18
Right here will show the curve or measurments of several speakers.
I own the sts right now and currently selling the lsi9.
I was thinking 703 or 705 also. It seems like the 705 don't take up too much more floor space vs the 703 on stands.

The Bryston still has my curiosity peaked. The off axis response looks smooth and even - all the way out to 75 degrees off axis so I keep thinking it would do well in the room depending on how they sound or the house signature sound.

I am also going to do what Tony and Skip both have suggested and try different cables. Now to email Doug LOL.

tonyb

Ern, I also tried the MIT S3 and didn't care for the lower bass, However, the MIT guru, F1NUT,assures me the S1's are way better. The MIT clearance center still has them for a little over 3 bones. I'd give them a try again, but I am pretty happy with the Acoustic zens I'm running now.

Which dac you using ?

erniejade

Thanks Tony. I have a set of pnf coming to try out for speaker cable. I do have a set of dougs alpha's but, because the sts has a deep recessed speaker connection, the spades will not fit on them so I have been using the dh labs q10 ( non sig version much older)

steveinaz

One of the easiest, and most straight-up satisfying (not to be confused with accurate) speakers I have owned were the Fritz Carbon 7's. They play clean and loud for their size, have incredible bass for a bookshelf, and the only caveat is that you want them a bit away from boundries, or they can sound a bit thick. THis doesn't mean they have to be out in the middle or anything, just a good 18" or more off the back wall. If I ever got rid of my Harbeth's, I would go back to the Fritz speakers. This is a speaker that you can listen to all day long, and while it adds some character, it's all in a good way giving music body and a visceral feel. Hang the lab coat up, and prepare to love music again.

http://fritzspeakers.com/

tonyb

Steve, the man already sits 3-4 feet from the speaks, 18 inches while doesn't seem like a lot, in his room it would be. The room is really his main problem, but from my understanding, all he has to work with for now.

Ern, from my experiences with DH labs, they can sound a bit sterile and harsh on the top end as volume rises. Their newer revolution series is suppose to address some of that but I haven't had an ear on them yet.

What other gear are you running so I have an idea of sound signatures ?

erniejade

Mcintosh mc402 amp, audio research sp16, cayin tube sacd. Technics 1200 running into a jolida d9 phono pre and for now w4s dac2. With a tube buffer on the back of it.

erniejade

Definitely looking into different ic's.

tonyb

Ern,
Looks like a lot of warmth there, is that the sound you like ? I'd suggest trying one pair of IC's between the pre and amp. Sometimes if you find one you like, more of them don't necessarily equate to better sound. Sometimes a mix to offset some unpleasant characteristics is needed. Some will also work better in a certain spot than others.

Now tell me what it is about the sound you don't like.

erniejade

That's the problem. With all that warmth, its not even close to being warm! Even speakers that are "warm" sound comes up sounding harsh or ringy or thin. By all rights, everything I have had in this room should have been either booming or blow you out of the room but, it comes out sounding thin or tinny. So far the best thing is 10000000% overkill and should almost sound like car bass but, it actually makes it sound normal and that is the mythos sts ( 3 x 300 watt subs built in) the velodyne spl1200 sub combo. that warms it up enough to make me not want to run out of the room.
Anyone in the area is more then welcome to come take a look!

tonyb

Have you tube rolled in anything to warm it up ? That W4S isn't doing you any favors either for warmth. I would think between the Mac-AR-tubed cdp-and a tube buffer....you'd have an over abundance of warmth.

We're gonna meet up tomorrow for lunch, first thing I want you to try is the Satori speaker cables and jumpers along with the Acoustic zen matrix IC's between the amp and pre. Take the tube buffer out of the mix too. See how it sounds, then for more warmth, from the dac to the pre, insert the AP crystal ovals and see how that sounds.

I might also try removing the dac and tube buffer from the mix. Just use the cdp into the pre and see whats what.

erniejade

When I do testing, I usually just do sacd right from the cayin to the preamp. Tony that sounds like a good plan to me.

For tubes I am still running the tung sol from 1959. I also have a set of telefunken and rca 3mica 5751 for the preamp. In the cd player, I am running a set of BB but I also have a set of vintage mullard and some sylvania and the stock EH.that came with the unit. I have tried both the ss and tube outputs on it.

erniejade

Skip, one wall faces outside with a good 3-3.5 feet of a sliding window. ( regular not patio) the next wall is on the side of the garage. The next wall faces the neighbor its a townhouse and there is cement between the townhomes. The next wall is the 18+ cutout into the wall that starts right at the same wall as the cement barrier ans it backs up to the kitchen. I do have hardwood floor and its on a slab i also have a big area rug.

erniejade

Maybe this weeken I will snap some room pics. That might work. I have never had a room this difficult before

tonyb

That small room doesn't need monster power to play loud. I'm thinking lower class A amps with high efficiency speaks will get you all the volume you can stand. Plus you have subs in the mix.

The Mythos with their built in subs and the Velo's....can't see how that room is not overloaded with bass. Something just doesn't sound right. I might suggest to simplify things. Is cd's your main source for listening or do you also do digital downloads ?

erniejade

Tony, I agree is shouldn't but for whatever reason its not. I tried a set of Kef ls50 and a prima luna integrated from Holm. No dice. I brought my speakers, amp ( my back still hurts from that LOL ) and preamp to holm to try it there and it sounded great. Got it home and horrible. I brought it down stairs to the den the kids use and it sounded wonderful with no sub needed. Actually with the lsi9 no sub and it had more bass then in the upstairs den with a sub. It is crazy.

CD / sacd is the main source for listening. I have ripped a lot of my cd's to flac ( still have a few hundred to go) but, I don't use it much since I have some noise issues I am working on. After I finally get the room or whatever figured out, I need to ditch the noisy laptop and go a different route.

By all rights, this rig should be warm, lush but, its not.

tonyb

Lets play it by ear, small changes a bit at a time.

Met up with Ern for lunch today to hand off some cables to try. Nice dude, not deserving of a horrible room. We found some similarities in the sound we like and the wine we drink. I may just have to make him an honorary Dago if he keeps it up. Let us know if anything works out for the positive big guy.

erniejade

Thanks again Tony. I am almost ready for a nap after that lunch!! I am grateful it is a slow day.

Small changes? Outside of moving or moving people out of the townhouse... I don't consider that small LOL. If I make it to the honorary Dago club, I will have to give you a bottle of Palazzolo Barolo.

I am all for trying whatever it takes. I am not married to any piece I have in the chain.
Looks like I have plans tonight to try the cables! I might need to pick up some Bloody Mary mix first... I will see what the mood hits me in a few hours after the hour + in traffic on the way home.

tonyb

Met up with Ern again for lunch and some chat. I was missing my cables bad, sort of a separation anxiety, lol.

Glad neither of us snapped any selfies either, we looked more like Burt and Ernie from Sesame Street sitting at the bar drinking wine and sucking down Calamari.

One of the nicest dudes your ever gonna want to meet. His Brystons are sounding better, and I think he and that room have come to terms in the short haul. Whether your buying gear from him, or just hangin' and chewing the fat, Ernie is a good man for both.

Good luck on the 705's you have coming, let us know how it all turns out.

erniejade

Thanks Tony! I appreciate the opportunity to check out the cables. On my rig each piece made a difference for the positive including the digital cable. Tony is really is a great person and Bert and Ernie is right on the money! That is hysterical! ! (But true lol) My wallet however has a few choice derogatory words for you.........

I will need to write a review of the bryston and the lsim705 after I get them next week and the rest of the cables in place.

For thoes that are following, I did pick up a set of bryston mini t and have the lsim705 on the way next week. The bryston dont suck. They are warm but detailed and they are NOT forgiving. They have shown every flaw in the rig and each change I did with Tony's cables I could the difference right away. There was no going between 2 cables over and over again to try to pick out the difference. Usually a warm speaker has some forgiving qualities to them but again in my rig and this room, they would make a well recorded sacd sound great but an ok sacd for me just picked it apart and showed a lot of flaws. The sound of them is different. There is a lot of bass but its not boomy and its fast to the point where the person that blught my lsi9 thought the 9's had more bass. Its a different kind of bass thats all. Are they for me? Not sure yet.

Anyway I still love the bigger polk sound so, the answer to the original post... Both!!! For years I have a second set of speakers or a second rig depending on my mood that day was. Since I don't have the room to keep doing that, I am trying to get the best of both on one speaker in this room without breaking the bank.

EndersShadow

So you snagged those 705's you mentioned then I take it...

erniejade

Yep. I pick them up Tuesday. Even if I go to a shop to hear something, because of the room, I have no idea how its gonna sound until its home so..... lol

EndersShadow

erniejade wrote: »

Yep. I pick them up Tuesday. Even if I go to a shop to hear something, because of the room, I have no idea how its gonna sound until its home so..... lol

Understand.... I'm about to pull the trigger on something myself.....

txcoastal1

I think you will be happy with the 705's, especially in the smaller room with the close rear wall issue. A front or a down firing port speaker will likely perform better.

Oh yeah I forgot....congrats

tonyb

erniejade wrote: »

I am trying to get the best of both on one speaker in this room without breaking the bank.

I dunno Ern, seems to me the Humpty Dumpty bank of Ernie was already pushed over the ledge.

erniejade

@txcoastal1 I actually called polk to see if that speaker would be overkill in my room. What you just said is exactly what they said!.