Break in: what do you folks think?
afterburnt
Posts: 7,892
in Electronics
I read this somewhere and think it's a bunch of hooey. What says yooz?
"Many people leave the gear on all day, for weeks even. I am very much against this. What do we mean when we say a part like a capacitor must "break in"? It's just wound metal impregnated with some kind of oil usually, what "breaks" in. Obviously the metal. From having some blacksmith knowledge, I know metal breaks in by tempering, but it can be tempered 2 ways. If it is hot all the time and then suddenly cold it makes it hard and brittle. If you get it hot then cold then hot then cold etc... repeatedly (in other words a middle range) it tempers it softer. If you play it no stop all you have is heat, and then suddenly it gets cold. I have heard too many people who do this complain that their systems sound strident and never "broke in" properly and I believe this is why. What's more it seems to lengthen the time required to break it in once they start cycling it properly. All gear is different but most electronics seem to take about 300 to 400 hours to fully break in"
"Many people leave the gear on all day, for weeks even. I am very much against this. What do we mean when we say a part like a capacitor must "break in"? It's just wound metal impregnated with some kind of oil usually, what "breaks" in. Obviously the metal. From having some blacksmith knowledge, I know metal breaks in by tempering, but it can be tempered 2 ways. If it is hot all the time and then suddenly cold it makes it hard and brittle. If you get it hot then cold then hot then cold etc... repeatedly (in other words a middle range) it tempers it softer. If you play it no stop all you have is heat, and then suddenly it gets cold. I have heard too many people who do this complain that their systems sound strident and never "broke in" properly and I believe this is why. What's more it seems to lengthen the time required to break it in once they start cycling it properly. All gear is different but most electronics seem to take about 300 to 400 hours to fully break in"
Comments
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There is not enough heat generated in a piece of consumer SS electronic equipment to temper any metal.The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
Except maybe an older Onkyo AVR.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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"From having some blacksmith knowledge..."
LOL.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
jeremymarcinko wrote: »Except maybe an older Onkyo AVR.
still no those just "tempered" the HDMI inputs and outputs......into TOAST....:)
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In another thread Ken gave the best answer I ever heard, to lazy to dig it up and find it but maybe he will re-post it.
When I was burning in my Monitor 10 crossover that Dave (westmassguy) rebuilt for me, I heard the biggest difference in the Mid's to upper end. And was nice to hear the sound evolve as I would listen to them every Sunday after 70+ more hours of burn in.2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
Yawnafterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
These are simply people with OCD, cause they just don't bother taking their medication which would let them put the system together, then throw on some music or a movie and enjoy it.
Are there differences? Of course, I noticed a real big difference between a 120wpc receiver driving my speakers and a brand new 205wpc Parasound 1500A amp driving my speakers.
Was the amp breaking in during this time? I have no idea, I was too busy going through all of my cd's finally hearing all the details that I was missing when I just used my receiver.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
There many electrical components that "break-in" due to heating and cooling cycles. This isn't "voo-doo" it's well known and documented. Now, wether or not an audible difference can be noted, may be arguable.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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My take on break-in.....don't frickin' worry about it. If it happens and you do hear a difference, cool....if you don't, cool too. Just listen to your music and don't fret over it.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Pretty much anyone with ears and experience with vintage audio gear of new caps in thier xovers ( including myself) have documented bteak in and warm up changes in the sound thier system produces! Im not a blacksmith, metalergist, or eletronics engineer so i cant explain the phenomena in detail but i have ears and have heard and can hear the difference in the sound all of my vintage systems sound after warm up and the sound my speakers make after rcap and breaking them in. If yours dont or you cant hear it i dont know what to tell you except listen closer.Main Rig:
Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
MIT exp 1 ic's
Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
AQ kingcobra ic's
OPPO 83 CDP
Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
ADS L1590/2 Biamped
MIT exps2 speaker cable -
Burn in is real, at least in components I've had over the years. Nothing to fret over though - just play the rig. I've often had an "aha!" moment when I notice a sudden increase in sq after some hours of use."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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Note, speaking for myself and only myself, my perception of sound is mostly due to the many factors of psychoacoustic phenomena and is greatly influenced by expectation bias.
Corrected because you shouldn't speak for everyone else.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I have no doubt about break in it,s the blacksmith carp that I think is bs
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There you go again, speaking for others.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
LmaoMain Rig:
Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
MIT exp 1 ic's
Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
AQ kingcobra ic's
OPPO 83 CDP
Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
ADS L1590/2 Biamped
MIT exps2 speaker cable -
So it's not a myth?
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here we go....2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
here we go....
I'm ready. Just back from a conference and fired up the "tubes". Glad to see everything is back to normal here. lol
I did give those tubes 30 minutes or more before I put on the music though!
Who are the PsychoAcoustics, you ask?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNGb0okOPfo Post edited by cnh onCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
Break-in and get caught, better plan your breakout.The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
all equipment is the same. If it is quality built, there is no break-in.
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What do I think? The OP and Xcapri are showing their trolling techniques are just as effective as ever.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
To my ears ClassA and tube gear along with speakers with complicated crossover circuits definitely require a breakin/or warm up.
Keep in mind that results may not be positive.2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
What is with this trolling garbage? Asking a question is trolling?nooshinjohn wrote: »What do I think? The OP and Xcapri are showing their trolling techniques are just as effective as ever.
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afterburnt wrote: »
What is with this trolling garbage? Asking a question is trolling?nooshinjohn wrote: »What do I think? The OP and Xcapri are showing their trolling techniques are just as effective as ever.
You didn't start this thread because you knew it was going to garner attention and controversy? Truly? If you were really just searching for info there are a ton of threads on the subject you could have read, all of which end the same way this one is.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
No I did not. The excerpt that I posted was the first time that I had seen such a theory expressed so I ask for you guys thoughts. I don't post questions about cables even if I have a legitimate question because I have seen how those question usually end up. Now I know not to ask about break in either. At any rate I don't see why anyone here should have to self censor their questions just because some people are going to freak out about them. I would hope that people could ask a question without fear of kicking a hornets nest.
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afterburnt wrote: »No I did not. The excerpt that I posted was the first time that I had seen such a theory expressed, so I asked for your guys thoughts.
Fair enough.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
besides, a little trepanning is good for the forum.
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afterburnt wrote: »No I did not. The excerpt that I posted was the first time that I had seen such a theory expressed, so I asked for your guys thoughts.
Fair enough.
Afterburnt did not write that -
As I said, the cooling and heating up of some electrical components changes their properties. AGAIN this isn't voo-doo, look it up yourself on the net.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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