Audioquest Ethernet cables

mantis

Hello all,
Has anyone messed around with Ethernet cables? Audioquest claims some strong gains when using higher quality ethernet cable for audio and video streaming.
I have a Apple TV and a Sonos connect I'm gonna test this theory on. I have an array of brands of Ethernet cables I can test to see if they make any noticeable difference.
I'm wired up with Audioquest ethernet now but I picked up a few higher end cables in the Cinnamon models.

tonyb

I don't see why not, though I'd imagine those gains won't be as pronounced as in RCA cables or speaker cables. You also might want to try other higher end brands for comparison sake.

[Deleted User]

I can't see it, but if you experience a difference I'd be interested in hearing what you think. IEEE is very forgiving in there specs.

mantis

rednedtugent wrote: »

I can't see it, but if you experience a difference I'd be interested in hearing what you think. IEEE is very forgiving in there specs.

I think for non live streaming stuff I'm sure there is no difference over a properly built Ethernet cable of correct length and gauge with proper bandwidth for given network. A 10/100 network will never need any more then Cat 5e cables which can fully support such network no matter what you want to do with it.
That is also said about 10/100/1000 networks, Cat 6 is the standard for this style network and according to network engineers , this cable can fully support everything you throw at it.
I huge homes with Control systems , Cat 6 cables don't bottle neck the network. We get all kinds of stuff going on on the network with no signs of slow downs or perceived packet loss due to poor quality cables. I'm not a network engineer or even a IT guy but I do network setups every day. I do pretty high end network in the multiple thousand dollar range. We use Cat 6 bulk Audioquest and Monoprice patch cables with usually no failure. We test all the cables that go into our networks and they always perform well.
Our network gear come from Pakedge, Luxul and Araknis. We use Snap av Battery Back up's at the head end followed by a Network reboot unit. So if the network doesn't see the internet , it will power cycle the Modem and then the router. It goes through a ping test every so often to test this and then auto corrects as needed.
Most of the time we use unmanaged switches as we really have no reason to use Managed.
In my home my Modem is a Quantum Verizon router that also distrubutes the Moca network for my cable boxes. I have a sub net with Apple using a 3T Time Machine AC ability and a Apple Airport Extreme for Airplay into add that to my Sonos house system. My Switches are Araknis at the head end and a D Link at my Family Room head end.
When I wired my house 13 years ago, I used Liberity Cat 5e cabling.
My Network is laid out as the following.
In my basement , this is where my network head end is. Over by the Fuse Panel I have a Distribution Can for Cat and Phone. Underneath I have a Shelf that I built for my Rotuer/ Modem combo and the 8 port Araknis switch. Underneath that is a Snap AV Battery Back up with also has Voltage Regulation. I don't use a Auto reboot unit as in all the years I lived here , we only lost power 2 times. All of our services are underground.
My Upgrades so far for wiring is from the Verizon Router/ Modem I'm using Audioquest Bulk Cat 6. This is wired between the Apple Airport Time Capsule and the Basement House 8 port switch. I have to upgrade the cat 5e Liberity cable that's ran to my family room to Bulk Audioquest cat 6. I plan on doing that sometime this week or next week end.
Currently the Family Room entire system is wired from the wall plate in Bulk Audioquest Cat 6. All terminated in 568B. When I did my house all those years ago, It was all T568A. I switched that a few years ago.
In my system there I replaced 2 of the bulk Audioquest Cat 6 cables with Audioquest Prebuilt 1.5m Cinnamon Network cables. I put one on my Apple TV and the other on my Sonos Connect.They look awesome and have high quality terminations. I plan on replacing all the Ethernet cables there that need be for streaming reasons. I don't think I'll do the game systems but the SC-68 will get one as I will Airplay to it from time to time for music off my iPhone or iPad Mini when I'm working in the Dining room and don't have the house system on. My Dining room is open to the family room so this is ideal in this case. I don't however use the SC-68 multi zone abilities as I have Sonos and a Sherbourn Multichannel amp running the speakers around the house. That does 6 of my rooms by itself and then I have a Integra DTM40.4 running my Basement Gym and Guitar playing area.
That location is also going to get re wired in Audioquest Bulk cat 6 For it's Sonos zone.
Since I have Installed them, I'm letting them break in before I listen to the system. I have went from Liberity and Monster cable Cat 5e to bulk Audioquest Cat 6 to Premade Cinnamon Ethernet cables so we shall see if anything is noticeable.
If anything I'll have a nicely upgrade whole house network with rock solid brand new wiring. If I don't get any gains in audio clarity or dynamics as claimed, I don't think I'm gonna be pissed or anything. I like my system wired in high quality cables and it makes it nice to work with as I change out things in my system a lot.
I'm kinda nutty like that.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the background. I'd still be interested if your listening pleasure improves as a result.

RamZet

I am somewhat of a Sonos and Apple TV master.
No the cables wont improve your experience. Apple TV is a $99 POS and Sonos is only as good as the DAC you connect it too.

However high end cables are always fun. post some pictures of your setup.
What router are you using, what switch are you using?
Are you using cat6a or 7 to get the most out of you connection speeds?

Sonos can also be very chatty, if youre not using the wifi or sonosnet then kill it by doing the following steps.
Goto the sonos app on your PC, go to help, about my sonos, and get the IP of the player.
then enter this: http://<sonosip>:1400/wifictrl?wifi=persist-off
delete <sonosip> and enter the sonos IP. So if your sonos ip is 192.168.1.100 it would look like this http://192.168.1.100:1400/wifictrl?wifi=persist-off.
you will know it worked by the browser screen, it will say "wifictrl request succeeded HTTP 200 OK".
to undo this for any reason you can factory default the sonos or enter this http://<sonosip>:1400/wifictrl?wifi=on.


If you have other sonos players in the house using sonosnet and this wired unit is their hub back to the internet then don't do this.

mantis

RamZet wrote: »

I am somewhat of a Sonos and Apple TV master.
No the cables wont improve your experience. Apple TV is a $99 POS and Sonos is only as good as the DAC you connect it too.

However high end cables are always fun. post some pictures of your setup.
What router are you using, what switch are you using?
Are you using cat6a or 7 to get the most out of you connection speeds?

Sonos can also be very chatty, if youre not using the wifi or sonosnet then kill it by doing the following steps.
Goto the sonos app on your PC, go to help, about my sonos, and get the IP of the player.
then enter this: http://<sonosip>:1400/wifictrl?wifi=persist-off
delete <sonosip> and enter the sonos IP. So if your sonos ip is 192.168.1.100 it would look like this http://192.168.1.100:1400/wifictrl?wifi=persist-off.
you will know it worked by the browser screen, it will say "wifictrl request succeeded HTTP 200 OK".
to undo this for any reason you can factory default the sonos or enter this http://<sonosip>:1400/wifictrl?wifi=on.


If you have other sonos players in the house using sonosnet and this wired unit is their hub back to the internet then don't do this.

I don't agree with your POS about the Apple TV. I find it to be a wonderful device. I use it just about every day and I have 2 of them. One in the family room and the other in the Master Bed.
Sonos is a toy for me as I basically use it for house music. I have 10 Audio Zones in my home and my speakers are all Polk in 9 of them. They consist of In ceiling and in wall models. I use Sherbourn Mltichannel amp and a Integra DTM40.4 with Sonos being a Preamp for 8 of the zones. I use the Integra as a receiver in my basement with a feed out of the Sherbourn if I want to listen to what the rest of the house is.It's an independent zone as well with CD and iPod ability along with Radio which I rarely never use as Sonos has Streaming Radio for most local channels.
I'm a Sonos Installer and have been since 2006. I know everything about Sonos including turning off the Wifi. On some networks Sonos can cause some chatty issues and I'll even put a managed switch in the mix and turn off al wifi on all Sonos wired units. I run all non wired units in Wifi as that seems to be the best setup. Sonosnet does cause some WAP's or AP's to slow down due to interference.
Thanks anyway for bring up those tips as I'm sure many Sonos users can benefit from it.
Router I'm using I have 2, a Verizon Fios Quantum and a 3T Apple Time Capsule AC. This router is only used for Moca to the Cable boxes and as a Modem for my main router. The Apple is my main router for my home network.
Routing to me as I do high end routers in Pakedge Fortinet, Luxul and for more common I'll use Apple and Asus. Cisco I used years ago.
My house is slowly being wired in all Audioquest Cat 6. When the house was built 12 years ago, I wired it in Liberity Cat 5e.
So far I haven't noticed anything different using the Audioquest cinnamon Ethernet cables. Probably because I replaced Audioquest Cat 6 Bulk wire that I build myself in T568B. I'm completely anal about my terminations.
My switches I use Araknis. I find them to be built very solid and I haven't had any issues with them failing ports or slowing down anything. I speed test with and without and they are transparent on my network. I'm all hard wired. I have used D link , Linksys , Cisco , Pakedge , Luxul etc but I find the best value in Araknis.
My wireless network consist of the Time capsule and 2 Airport Express units. I also use them for Airplay for house music.
I'm not a Network engineer or even an IT guy but I do networks for a living and I know a lot about them. Probably enough to get in trouble LOL.
In my line of work ( Audio Video Installer, Designer , Programmer, Service Tech , Business owner) I had to learn networks but in 2003 when devices started to use it and our industry moved in that direction. Yamaha was a very early adapter with Musicast which was a very cool device along with Elan Via Dj.

I'll get some pics up this weekend of the network and the Audioquest Cinnamon Interconnects.

mantis

Here are some pic's

RamZet

mantis wrote: »

RamZet wrote: »

I am somewhat of a Sonos and Apple TV master.
No the cables wont improve your experience. Apple TV is a $99 POS and Sonos is only as good as the DAC you connect it too.

However high end cables are always fun. post some pictures of your setup.
What router are you using, what switch are you using?
Are you using cat6a or 7 to get the most out of you connection speeds?

Sonos can also be very chatty, if youre not using the wifi or sonosnet then kill it by doing the following steps.
Goto the sonos app on your PC, go to help, about my sonos, and get the IP of the player.
then enter this: http://<sonosip>:1400/wifictrl?wifi=persist-off
delete <sonosip> and enter the sonos IP. So if your sonos ip is 192.168.1.100 it would look like this http://192.168.1.100:1400/wifictrl?wifi=persist-off.
you will know it worked by the browser screen, it will say "wifictrl request succeeded HTTP 200 OK".
to undo this for any reason you can factory default the sonos or enter this http://<sonosip>:1400/wifictrl?wifi=on.


If you have other sonos players in the house using sonosnet and this wired unit is their hub back to the internet then don't do this.

I don't agree with your POS about the Apple TV. I find it to be a wonderful device. I use it just about every day and I have 2 of them. One in the family room and the other in the Master Bed.
Sonos is a toy for me as I basically use it for house music. I have 10 Audio Zones in my home and my speakers are all Polk in 9 of them. They consist of In ceiling and in wall models. I use Sherbourn Mltichannel amp and a Integra DTM40.4 with Sonos being a Preamp for 8 of the zones. I use the Integra as a receiver in my basement with a feed out of the Sherbourn if I want to listen to what the rest of the house is.It's an independent zone as well with CD and iPod ability along with Radio which I rarely never use as Sonos has Streaming Radio for most local channels.
I'm a Sonos Installer and have been since 2006. I know everything about Sonos including turning off the Wifi. On some networks Sonos can cause some chatty issues and I'll even put a managed switch in the mix and turn off al wifi on all Sonos wired units. I run all non wired units in Wifi as that seems to be the best setup. Sonosnet does cause some WAP's or AP's to slow down due to interference.
Thanks anyway for bring up those tips as I'm sure many Sonos users can benefit from it.
Router I'm using I have 2, a Verizon Fios Quantum and a 3T Apple Time Capsule AC. This router is only used for Moca to the Cable boxes and as a Modem for my main router. The Apple is my main router for my home network.
Routing to me as I do high end routers in Pakedge Fortinet, Luxul and for more common I'll use Apple and Asus. Cisco I used years ago.
My house is slowly being wired in all Audioquest Cat 6. When the house was built 12 years ago, I wired it in Liberity Cat 5e.
So far I haven't noticed anything different using the Audioquest cinnamon Ethernet cables. Probably because I replaced Audioquest Cat 6 Bulk wire that I build myself in T568B. I'm completely anal about my terminations.
My switches I use Araknis. I find them to be built very solid and I haven't had any issues with them failing ports or slowing down anything. I speed test with and without and they are transparent on my network. I'm all hard wired. I have used D link , Linksys , Cisco , Pakedge , Luxul etc but I find the best value in Araknis.
My wireless network consist of the Time capsule and 2 Airport Express units. I also use them for Airplay for house music.
I'm not a Network engineer or even an IT guy but I do networks for a living and I know a lot about them. Probably enough to get in trouble LOL.
In my line of work ( Audio Video Installer, Designer , Programmer, Service Tech , Business owner) I had to learn networks but in 2003 when devices started to use it and our industry moved in that direction. Yamaha was a very early adapter with Musicast which was a very cool device along with Elan Via Dj.

I'll get some pics up this weekend of the network and the Audioquest Cinnamon Interconnects.

I use Apple TV too, I almost exclusively use it at home ( b/c it has the best apps). Apple TV is a POS, its just the best of the streaming $99 boxes.
But my point wasn't about Apple tv being good or bad, just that the high end Audio-Quest wire will not make a difference in audio/video quality with Apple TV, especially b/c its 10/100 based.

Have you used the Pakedge RE-1 (or 2)? (I was using the better Netgear routers and even the Apple router but they cant deal with the large size networks we install.)
I'm just interested in what you have found with larger (5players -to- 32players) Sonos installs on other routers. I only use Pakedge gear and I have to enable UPnP, STP, and IGMP on the RE-1 and enable STP on managed switches (I really like the SX24P). Same deal with the Pakedge WAPs (W6,W7,WK-1, and the WX-1) they need STP enabled.

What stands out about Araknis? I know they will be at Cedia this year so it could be worth a stop. I have heard of them and I have seen their product being compared to Pakedge (the RE gear not the ForteNet).

mantis

[/quote]

I use Apple TV too, I almost exclusively use it at home ( b/c it has the best apps). Apple TV is a POS, its just the best of the streaming $99 boxes.
But my point wasn't about Apple tv being good or bad, just that the high end Audio-Quest wire will not make a difference in audio/video quality with Apple TV, especially b/c its 10/100 based.

Have you used the Pakedge RE-1 (or 2)? (I was using the better Netgear routers and even the Apple router but they cant deal with the large size networks we install.)
I'm just interested in what you have found with larger (5players -to- 32players) Sonos installs on other routers. I only use Pakedge gear and I have to enable UPnP, STP, and IGMP on the RE-1 and enable STP on managed switches (I really like the SX24P). Same deal with the Pakedge WAPs (W6,W7,WK-1, and the WX-1) they need STP enabled.

What stands out about Araknis? I know they will be at Cedia this year so it could be worth a stop. I have heard of them and I have seen their product being compared to Pakedge (the RE gear not the ForteNet).
[/quote]
Spamming Tree is only used on Pakedge gear and it's the only gear I have worked with that doesn't play nice with Home electronics. Look at he current issues with the Apple TV, you have to build now permissions on the K6 Routers Fortinet fi you will or D whatever just so it can get online and get it's updates. Also look at the crap with Xbox, you can only use one Xbox on those routers. The RE1 is a more or less a Router not a Pure firewall like the stupid Fortinet is.
When I first learned about Pakedge , I had a very bad experience with them. Years ago I did a huge 600k Savant job with Pakedge WAP's in the 3gs and they all failed within a week. We replaced them all with Apple Extremes and used them and the system rocks.
No Streaming issues , no Wifi Issues of any kind and this is in a house that is 12k square feet with Stone and very heavy building materials used very high end.
When I moved to the company I work for now, They have been using Pakedge for a few years with many issues. The 3gs WAP's where a huge issue and they/ We replaced all of them where where in the field. Last firmware version was 2.02 I believe.
Then came the W6 which seemed to be awesome. A little behind as it was a 2.4g only WAP but it's coverage was amazing and really seemed to do it's job well, and then they started to fail. Up date after Update which our company started to get annoyed with this.
The W7 came out and that was supposed to be the Be all end all 2.4 and 5g WAP. Again behind the times with no AC but hey if 5g works good I was very cool with this move. Then they started to fail and now the firmware is up to 1.17 which is madness.
Switch after switch we had fail from the 5 ports up to the POE 24 port models.
This is when as a company we decided after countless meetings with Pakedge it was time for a different network company to take their place.

I personally Hate Pakedge with a Passion and will never own their gear. I will not sell it ever again

The Araknis is a Snap AV company I believe. I think they own them or designed them in house. They stand out due to so far they have been rock solid. The WAP's work wonderfully , the new Router is a nice well built unit and the Switches are built like tanks.
I have had no issues at all with Apple TV or Sonos no matter how many units I have and I didn't even turn off Wifi on some jobs as I have to with Pakedge. I think Araknis is better built for our industry and Pakedge is more a commercial product that belongs in the business world where companies have on staff IT guys who can fix them on demand. They fail more then any other company I have worked with in my 17 years I've been in the field.
Honestly dude I have no issues with any other Network equipment with Sonos other then Pakedge. I have done very large Sonos job with Apple Extremes and not one hiccup.
If you haven't noticed , I'm a huge Audioquest guy. It's all I use and they proved themselves to me many years ago. As an Installer , as a Hobbiest, their cables work with no failures. I have never had one single bad cable or one that didn't perform exactly as spec'd.
Quality of materials I feel are the best in the business Period. They are the best wire company Period. I have used just about everything under the Sun and I don't feel that way about any other company.
I'm also a realist with wire, I have learned the hard way about super high end cables and the non returns they yield once you get to a certain level. Even with Audioquest they have cables that far exceed spec and I find that to be a waste as you also probably leaned in your time in the field. I have conducted more tests then any normal human being should have. I have also met with the top engineers of many high end companies and really learned a lot about conductors and the importance of correct spec and quality of materials used.
My Apple TV is way over kill wired but I'm completely ok with that as I know it will perform it's best and it does. It looks and sound great and I'm completely happy with it. I'm not sure about the new one coming out and how we are going to integrate with it but I'll be the first to test this and uncover it's limitations.

MrRoboT

Mantis is there any way you can test it for gaming lag? I would love to know if this can improve things. Even if the diff was so small I would pay top dollar to have it.

mantis

MrRoboT wrote: »

Mantis is there any way you can test it for gaming lag? I would love to know if this can improve things. Even if the diff was so small I would pay top dollar to have it.

Anytime you use a properly built cable, you will increase your ability to retain what is with minimum loss. This also applies to Network cables.
It's not the cables that make a system it's the system that makes the system. The cables are there to support the system you build.
So with that being said, a network is only as strong as it's weakest link. If you want to do online or network gaming. You must first start with a good outside world connection.Pay for the best service you can afford and have the biggest pipe you can. Then you need a good quality modem.I strongly suggest the Motorola Surfboard. It's still one of if not the best Modem available today. From this point you need a high quality Cat 6 cable to go from the Modem to your router. This router should be of high quality. Now you can game very well on a budget with Asus Routers. Your looking at about 200- 250 and you got one solid Gaming router.
At this location you NEED a battery back up surge protector with Voltage Regulation. This is very important so if your area has brown outs and power issues, your network will be blind to them. Again do not cheap out here. Buy the best one your money will allow.
At this point your going to need a hard wire to go from your Router to your gaming machine. I suggest Cat 6 Properly terminated of high quality. This will assure that the signal ability out of your Modem to your Router to your gaming system is at it's best. No hard bends in the cable always use soft bends.
With this network all wires in the home must be home run to where the Router is going to live. At this point you purchase the best quality network un managed switch you can. Do not cheap out here or anywhere in your network or suffer it will.
If your gaming machine is a Xbox or PS4 , and it lives with your home theater equipment, you should put a network unmanaged switch of equal quality in this location with enough ports to hard wire everything. use high quality cat 6 interconnects or have them built by a professional and tested. Believe it or not most network interconnects suck. They are cheaply built and of low quality. They can hinder your network from running it's best.
My house I wired it when I built it with Cat 5e. It was of good quality in Liberity Wire and cable. Once Audioquest started building Network cable in Cat 6 and now Cat 7, I had to learn more about the importance of higher quality network cabling as I always felt that the Cat 5e of even todays more demanding network should work just fine. And for the most part that is very true as long as it's good quality, twisted pairs are even over long distances and each cable is terminated properly and passes spec.
But With using higher quality materials and more care to the perfection of cables being built as Audioquest does, I feel confident that spending money on their network cables should at minimum meet all factory standards. I'm not so sure that if you keep climbing the ladder of higher and higher quality cables here will yield any results.
In my system my network runs to perfection. I have no issues ever as my network is carefully constructed and precision went into every single termination.
This I believe will always yield the best results. I do not have any gaming lag or any communication issues.

mantis

Ok so I replaced the run that goes from the D marc in my basement to the Family Room Head end location.It goes through a Araknis 8 port unmanaged 1/100/1000 switch.The Switch is plugged into a Snap AV Wattbox 825 Battery Backup and Voltage regulator. The original cable was a Liberity Cat 5e which is of good quality and served me for 12 years strong with no issues.
I just replaced it with a Audioquest Cat 6 run and I'm gonna see if there is any noticeable difference when streaming music or Movies. So the Circle is now complete. The entire Chain from the Modem / Router combo to the switch to the Family Room 8 port Araknis Switch to all equipment is all Audioquest Ethernet cabling.

mantis

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4768229392
After the Audioquest Wiring upgrade I'm absolutely getting faster speeds. I averaged before the Audioquest Ethernet upgrades to my network around 75-80 down and 75-81 up. This was very consistent and now after the upgrade , well look for yourself.
Another thing I have noticed is my streaming movies load faster. It seems like wait time is now basically gone. I press to watch a movie and it starts playing. Thats real world testing and some solid results that better Ethernet cables yield better results over standard models. Maybe it's because I had a Cat 5e run to my equipment and now it's a Cat 6 that made the difference along with a run to my WAP in my master Bed Which provides Wireless access for most of the house. I can be wireless or hard wired and get the same results. Thats impressive.

ZLTFUL

If you want to do a REALLY fun test, play with some lengths of CCA Cat6 cable and then compare it to standard solid copper Cat6 and then some "upgraded" Cat6.

The funny part is that they all meet spec so they all should work but I'll be danged if the extra money spent for better cable doesn't result in better performance.

Bear in mind that CCA is all but illegal in most locations for in wall use. It also has horrible signal attenuation.

RamZet

Sorry too hear about the bad experience with Pakedge. I love the stuff. (I did not like the Fortinet routers either, nobody did).
Well if you find yourself infront of a RE-1 or 2 by default they have most of the standard stuff off (STP,UPnP, and IGMP). Switch these on and you get a great AV router.

I like the good feedback on the AudioQuest. We're doing a B&W/Classé bundled theater kit (CT800s speakers) and I was looking at different wire companies to use. AudioQuest keeps coming up.
What AQ interconnects would you use on 88k of speakers and AMPs? We set a budget of 5K for interconnects.

RamZet

RamZet wrote: »

Sorry too hear about the bad experience with Pakedge. I love the stuff. (I did not like the Fortinet routers either, nobody did).
Well if you find yourself infront of a RE-1 or 2 by default they have most of the standard stuff off (STP,UPnP, and IGMP). Switch these on and you get a great AV router.

I like the good feedback on the AudioQuest. We're doing a B&W/Classé bundled theater kit (CT800s speakers) and I was looking at different wire companies to use. AudioQuest keeps coming up.
What AQ interconnects would you use on 88k of speakers and AMPs? We set a budget of 5K for interconnects.

What router from Araknis should I try? (We use Snap AV.)

mantis

RamZet wrote: »

Sorry too hear about the bad experience with Pakedge. I love the stuff. (I did not like the Fortinet routers either, nobody did).
Well if you find yourself infront of a RE-1 or 2 by default they have most of the standard stuff off (STP,UPnP, and IGMP). Switch these on and you get a great AV router.

I like the good feedback on the AudioQuest. We're doing a B&W/Classé bundled theater kit (CT800s speakers) and I was looking at different wire companies to use. AudioQuest keeps coming up.
What AQ interconnects would you use on 88k of speakers and AMPs? We set a budget of 5K for interconnects.

We have used the RE-1 and 2 but it's to late for us with Pakedge. They caused so many issues with failures it's not even funny. I'm personally done with them. We use Luxul now and they are awesome. Even the Snap AV Arakvis stuff is fantastic. No issues at all. I believe they only make 1 router right now so go check that out.
Let me fill you in on something with Audioquest. You can use from their budget stuff to their top of the line. They all perform and perform well.
I would spend that budget on the highest level it will bring you. There is no bad choice with Audioquest. They make high end in wall cables and all of their interconnects are fantastic.
But if you want something to consider consider using The River series is a more affordable line and offer fantastic solutions. The Element series is the top of the line and IMO the prices get out of hand for little return. Reason I say that is that the River series performs so well I don't see a huge need to keep going up the ladder. But thats something you gotta figure out in your designs. High end stuff like your putting together there won't be out of place using Element series IC's.
Speaker wire for In wall use the Flx series is fantastic. I use it in my own system for my Center channel and surround speakers. I also have built my left and right channels out of FLX but currently I'm using Rocket 44's. You can get the Rocket series in bulk and would be an Ideal solution for the CT line of B&W speaker. Also the FLX series in the 14-4 is not a bad choice. You would be amazed how well they perform. For the money they almost make no sense as I have compared the FLX series to much higher end speaker cable and was shocked how good the FLX is.

RamZet

Cool, thanks!
Im having that 300 series router ordered on Monday, cant wait to check it out.
I also just shot an email out to get some AQ and Wireworld interconnects.

Thanks for the advice, its always nice to talk to other people in our line of work.

mantis

Absolutely good luck with Router