Intel NUC vs ITX Mini PC vs Chromebox Hacks
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With the bit of talk lately re: HTPC projects, Media PC's and such, I was wondering how you guys go about deciding on which form factor to go with in your builds. I realize some of this may be somewhat dictated for some of you who need larger storage repositories for libraries, but where would the Intel NUC be a good fit?
Had some discussion with @billbillw and apparently even Chromeboxes can be hacked to run different OSes and such. How do you guys choose? What are some areas where each of these excels over the other?
Would like to hear from any of you who've done some of these projects, which platform you've chosen and how you're using the device/machine/appliance.
Had some discussion with @billbillw and apparently even Chromeboxes can be hacked to run different OSes and such. How do you guys choose? What are some areas where each of these excels over the other?
Would like to hear from any of you who've done some of these projects, which platform you've chosen and how you're using the device/machine/appliance.
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For me, it was driven by what I wanted to do with the setup. If you want to have optical disc capability, have large internal drive for DVR function, or add a gaming video card, then the NUC and other tiny form factor systems are not much good IMO.
Nothing against NUC, but I think they are overpriced compared to what you can get from an ASUS Vivo or similar.
Between ATX/mATX and the tiny NUC style, there are some small form factors like Mini ITX that allow you to build a full system (with video card, optical drive, and extra drives), but they can be pricey to build and have some tradeoffs.
After I decided to go back to Tivo, it greatly reduced the need I had for a full PC system. I still needed Kodi to stream my media collection from the NAS though. Lots of options, but I was drawn to the hacked Chromebox idea because I like the idea of having full x86 hardware with solid integrated graphics to run Kodi and the legwork was already done for me. It was as simple as following a quick online guide. Within 1hr, I had OpenElec running with no issues. It was also one of the cheapest options too. I found the Chromeboxes on sale for $120 each.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
Hey thanks, BillBill - right now I'm looking for something to play around with to add a Daphile box to integrate with LMS and the other SBT's I run. Kinda on the fence right now as to direction.
For my planned implementation of Daphile, I won't be using any local storage in the unit, so the box can be really lightweight. I just want it to be small and quiet, mostly, I think. Secondary consideration, though, is that I don't know that this will be a permanent installation, so I'm thinking I might want something more capable in case I want to re-purpose the unit.
Yeah, after you first mentioned the Chromeboxes, I've been thinking quite a bit on finding a used one to mess with. Seems it might be the fastest/cheapest route for my lightweight use requirement, and in a nice clean chassis and presentation, and quiet.
Agreed, the Intel NUCs sure look sweet and are neat and clean, but do seem a little pricey. I'll have a look at some mini ITX chassis.I disabled signatures. -
With the bit of talk lately re: HTPC projects, Media PC's and such, I was wondering how you guys go about deciding on which form factor to go with in your builds. I realize some of this may be somewhat dictated for some of you who need larger storage repositories for libraries, but where would the Intel NUC be a good fit?
Had some discussion with @billbillw and apparently even Chromeboxes can be hacked to run different OSes and such. How do you guys choose? What are some areas where each of these excels over the other?
Would like to hear from any of you who've done some of these projects, which platform you've chosen and how you're using the device/machine/appliance.
Form follows function. The need you have decides the size and type of device you need.
Media Player ONLY to stream from NAS: Chromebox hacked for Kodi, WD Live TV, Roku, Fire TV, etc, Mini-ITX HTPC (not used as much as Chromebox is cheaper and better to JUST stream)
Media Player AND NAS: Micro-ATX/ATX HTPC
The type of HTPC you build (case size and type) depends on what motherboard you need, which is decided by the functions and features you need from the motherboard.
I'd need to know more about what functions YOU need it to fill. MediaServer, Source only, combination, etc......
As you know @ZLTFUL (Ryan) and I are using ours to both store the media and also the dish it up to our main system, and others devices (PLEX Server) hence the bigger size.
If I needed something to JUST stream the video from a NAS or Server or another device on which its stored, I'd likely use the ChromeBox's hacked to run Kodi, WD Live TV, Fire TV, or a smaller device. Each of these devices have different pro's and con's. Mainly the Chromebox and WD Live TV are the ONLY devices to handle lossless audio AND 1080p."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
This is very helpful so far, guys, thanks.
I think for now all I'm really looking for is a streamer, as this piece will be going in the home office area in a small system I'm pulling together with some extra stuff I have laying around. I just want to integrate something with the main and secondary systems, and not run audio through the computer anymore.
I kinda wanted to build something, but it's looking like from what you guys have mentioned so far, that a Chromebox may offer fastest implementation and best bang for buck.
Any particular preference on the available Chromeboxes?I disabled signatures. -
This is very helpful so far, guys, thanks.
I think for now all I'm really looking for is a streamer, as this piece will be going in the home office area in a small system I'm pulling together with some extra stuff I have laying around. I just want to integrate something with the main and secondary systems, and not run audio through the computer anymore.
I kinda wanted to build something, but it's looking like from what you guys have mentioned so far, that a Chromebox may offer fastest implementation and best bang for buck.
Any particular preference on the available Chromeboxes?
Streamer of what? Music, Movies?
If you want to use Kodi, read this: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=94268
If you just want a streamer without having to hack anything, the WD Live can be had for like 60 bucks and has all you need including a app to control it via wireless...
So stream what
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
music. specifically, at least for now, something to integrate/sync with Logitech Media Server and the other SBT's. I could use another computer I have laying around, but I'd like something small and neat and out of the way.
Man, you guys are insane
Billbill's got me loaded up with a ton of homework on apps I need to bone up on, and Kodi's in that list. I've played with Plex some, and would like to check out JRiver at some point, as well. For now though, primary use will be something I can load Daphile on, and probably connect a USB DAC. MAYbe. This is shaping up to be pretty low-fi right now, though, possibly using a vintage receiver with some modest bookshelf speakers. It'll be a work in progress. Right now, I just wanna get some synced tunes. I've been enjoying having the same stream in different areas of the house. I disabled signatures. -
If your going to use a USB DAC you need a device that can load the drivers on it and Kodi on Chromebox is NOT the device for you unless your tech savvy..."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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yeah, that could be a roadblock. I don't think I'll be using Kodi right now, but I haven't even touched it yet, so who knows.
I'll mess with getting Daphile running on an old computer first to see whether it picks up a USB DAC at all. I haven't read enough into it yet to see how they typically recommend connecting a DAC. I imagine it's either digital or USB, but I don't have anything with a sound card supporting optical or coax audio so...I disabled signatures. -
Most folks are using hdmi TBH, or have optical or coaxial out of the board....
Any device using a Linux OS will be work to use a USB DAC. You'd be better off with a raspberry pi w windows and then your good with any USB DAC. Run whatever you want program wise for music and your probably be good...
If this is just for music why not just another squeezebox like a classic v2 or v3?"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Because I want to build something, man
I don't really want to buy another SB.
I don't think Daphile runs on Raspberry Pi, iirc? (no ARM devices?) Do you know of anything else that integrates with Logitech Media Server that might? Seems like there may be other Squeezeplay or Squeezelite projects out there.
I had a thought earlier, and I thought I'd give a shot to trying to setup Daphile as a Linux VM in VMware Workstation, which I have running on a Windows 7 box. I can't believe it, but it's actually working. I can't really call it synced, because there's a slight delay I need to figure out; I have a couple of ideas, but kinda neat for now that it's even working this way. If the office volume is loud enough, I don't hear that it's delayed from the other systems
This could kill two birds here for now - hardware for the streamer maybe be covered, and also possibly a way to skirt any potential USB DAC issues with Linux. And really, taking a step back, all I really wanted was a way to sync music in the office with the other systems, so maybe I just skip the office system altogether for now and just use the computer speakers. It's a little Bose 2.1 that sounds good enough for working in here.
A work in progress...
I can see this getting pretty deep. I did have a thought a while back that I'd like to mount a 32" tv above the the computer desk, and build in shelving around it. I'd probably want to integrate a tuner card at some point, for HTPC or Tivo Mini, these tuner cards something I learn'ded from Billbill.
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Because I want to build something, man
I don't really want to buy another SB.
As long as you understand the headaches to get it working and the fact your likely going to be paying a lot more for a product that does about the same thing.
I am using my Media Server AS a HTPC until I wire my house, then it likely goes to my office to become a NAS mostly to serve up the files.....
If I had my druthers I'd have built it as a straight server to run the programs and bought a streamer for the rest... but thats too expensive out the box, hence my one box solution for now, and then add the other on later...I can see this getting pretty deep. I did have a thought a while back that I'd like to mount a 32" tv above the the computer desk, and build in shelving around it. I'd probably want to integrate a tuner card at some point, for HTPC or Tivo Mini, these tuner cards something I learn'ded from Billbill.
Tuner cards can be a PITA TBH..... I used a Hauppauge 2250 which I still have in a box. It recorded decent but ANY issue with signal and it resulted in issues with the picture on the recording, which could sometimes be a PAIN when your streaming and then half a show is all blurry and pixelated due to signal issues with OTA HDTV....
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Okay, think I figured out the delay problem. I think it's due to the fact that the Daphile VM is running through a few hoops. One of those is apparently a potential delay between analog and digital processing - all SBT's are connected by coax or optical. The PC is just analog outed to some computer speakers. Also, the Daphile VM was originally on the network natted through VMware Workstation's virtual networking. I set that to Bridge mode now, and let it pull its own IP through DHCP, and that helped quite a bit, but it was still noticeably, annoyingly off. There are a few different settings to control synchronization in LMS, though, and I played with a few things there. There's a bunch of stuff in Daphile Audio Device config you can mess with, but none of that really seemed to do much for sync, so I left it all to default again. Back to LMS, it's the Player Audio Delay configuration adjustment that seemed to close the sync gap. I tested this a few times zeroed and then with about 200ms, and it seems pretty close now at that setting.
Pretty cool that this is working well enough to get the music going in here at least. If nothing else it's familiarizing me more with LMS and Daphile. Kinda funny, the Daphile VM is running in VMware on the same machine that runs LMS, so it's essentially just connecting to itself over the "network".
I'll play with the DAC some this weekend to see if the VM can detect it. If it can, then I should be able to get the Daphile VM to see it as an audio device it can connect to, and then I could connect it to a receiver and use real speakers and stuff. There's an option in the VM settings to explicitly specify the audio device, or to simply use the host's default sound card, which would become the DAC once connected and detected in Windows.
Who knows what this virtual handoff is doing to the audio signal haha - it may just better to skip the DAC altogether. Really, this isn't a critical listening system or space, anyway.
Here's where you spec the player delay and other stuff in LMS. Default is 0ms.
Post edited by msg onI disabled signatures. -
HDMI how? to an AVR you mean?EndersShadow wrote:Most folks are using hdmi TBH, or have optical or coaxial out of the board....
Yeah, this isn't a hugely critical piece. It's mostly just for fun and a touch of refinement and for an excuse to setup another system with spare stuff. I may be paying more for something that does the same thing, but I feel like building something gives me flexibility to re-purpose if I feel like it. Part of this isn't really about the money, but about the process and getting to play with stuff, you know?EndersShadow wrote: »
I do understand that another SBT would be turnkey, and I may end up there down the road, but I wanted to try to get this together and work reasonably well with some of this cool stuff I've been reading about.
Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean here; too broad. Which programs, and what's "the rest"?EndersShadow wrote: »I am using my Media Server AS a HTPC until I wire my house, then it likely goes to my office to become a NAS mostly to serve up the files.....
If I had my druthers I'd have built it as a straight server to run the programs and bought a streamer for the rest... but thats too expensive out the box, hence my one box solution for now, and then add the other on later...
Which streamer would you go with?
my cable does that sometimes, too. I want to get rid of my cable boxes, that's another reason I wanted to try tuner cards. Really tired of getting nickeled and dimed. again, who knows, I may end up begging for my cable boxes back. I just want to try something different for a while to see how it works. I've never had the experience.EndersShadow wrote: »
Tuner cards can be a PITA TBH..... I used a Hauppauge 2250 which I still have in a box. It recorded decent but ANY issue with signal and it resulted in issues with the picture on the recording, which could sometimes be a PAIN when your streaming and then half a show is all blurry and pixelated due to signal issues with OTA HDTV....I can see this getting pretty deep. I did have a thought a while back that I'd like to mount a 32" tv above the the computer desk, and build in shelving around it. I'd probably want to integrate a tuner card at some point, for HTPC or Tivo Mini, these tuner cards something I learn'ded from Billbill.I disabled signatures. -
Will talk more in the morning, hitting the hay now."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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I have a NUC that I first ran with Ubuntu and then switched to Win 7. Kind of cool and fun, but I also have a Roku 3 for apps. I'm not a serious HTPCer, though. It's more or less just a toy, but it is a quality built piece of hardware. Impressive for its size. I've also taken it with me on travels, since it's so portable and quick to set up. I've been thinking of trying Win 10, but a little hesitant to give up my 7 license just yet.
All our DVDs have been ripped to a USB hard drive plugged into the NUC. I've installed Plex, too. Of course, now no one wants to watch the old movies. I keep finding family members using Netflix to watch the same movies I've ripped... -
that's good info. how do you use it on your travels? like, specifically, what do you run on it, and how would you connect it in these portable situations?
If you want to try Windows 10, maybe consider cloning your current hard drive to a new disk first. I may be mistaken as I've not read into this fully, but I think you can revert an installation after installing 10. >> Just did a quick search; looks like you can go back as long as it's within a month and you don't use Disk Cleanup to delete previous Windows installations. Still though, I'd clone it, and then run the upgrade on one of the disks. You can get a cheap cable and cloning software; I've used the Apricorn stuff (~$25) for quick clones/disk upgrades, but usually use Acronis.
yeah, sounds like I'm in a similar place as you - I'm not too serious at this point, but am really curious and want to see what this stuff's all about and play around with some DIY stuff. I've always been partial to Intel gear. We do pay a bit of a premium for it, but it usually proves pretty solid with few compatibility headaches (though I've had a couple of exceptions) I'm going mostly by experience from years ago; it's been a long time since I've built a computer.I disabled signatures. -
HDMI how? to an AVR you mean?EndersShadow wrote:Most folks are using hdmi TBH, or have optical or coaxial out of the board....
Yes a majority of folks using these small devices are using them mainly for Movies or Music and are handling everything out via HDMI. Now if they are running WINDOWS like @txcoastal1 they can use any DAC under the sun because most of those devices use plug and play drivers, or you download them and boom your in business.
@txcoastal1 has used a Intel NCU and a external HDD with music for the audio shows he presents at with BlowTorch Audio so maybe he can speak to their setup better.
But thats a smaller number of folks. Most people using these are using them mostly as source components to replace a blu-ray drive and read MKV or other files from their NAS devices. Think Apple TV only better since you get more formats.
Additionally any of the guys running OpenELEC or the Linux distributions for their OS are not using DAC's just HDMI out to a AVR. Again mainly because of the driver stuff.
Sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean here; too broad. Which programs, and what's "the rest"?EndersShadow wrote: »I am using my Media Server AS a HTPC until I wire my house, then it likely goes to my office to become a NAS mostly to serve up the files.....
If I had my druthers I'd have built it as a straight server to run the programs and bought a streamer for the rest... but thats too expensive out the box, hence my one box solution for now, and then add the other on later...
Which streamer would you go with?
What I would have done is built the Media Server as a more pure NAS. I would install Windows on it (because I'm more familiar with Windows than Linux), MakeMKV (so it can rip movies direct to its internal storage), Plex Server (so it can distribute video to other devices), Squeezebox Server (so it can handle the music playback for everything as well), and maybe another app or two. I may or may not have gone with using RAID but thats a whole different discussion. If I didnt go with RAID I might have gone with one of the software alternatives, but again whole different discussion. I also may have gone with a different motherboard with more SATA connectors, and maybe a different case since it would be in a different location than the HT stuff so additional noise added with more fans wouldn't be too much of a concern.
I would have then likely bought a Asus Chromebox (those models seem to be the most popular), probably one of the pentium over the i3/i5 models. Installed Kodi on it as the OS and set it up to stream all my movies and potentially audio (also have a squeezebox in the system) as well to the HT system.
But MY CHOICE of streamers may be different than what I'd suggest for you depending on your needs. The Fire Sticks, Fire TV, Raspberry Pi 2, etc all have pros and cons that may change the recommendations I'd make for different needs (IE Form Follows Function)
my cable does that sometimes, too. I want to get rid of my cable boxes, that's another reason I wanted to try tuner cards. Really tired of getting nickeled and dimed. again, who knows, I may end up begging for my cable boxes back. I just want to try something different for a while to see how it works. I've never had the experience.EndersShadow wrote: »
Tuner cards can be a PITA TBH..... I used a Hauppauge 2250 which I still have in a box. It recorded decent but ANY issue with signal and it resulted in issues with the picture on the recording, which could sometimes be a PAIN when your streaming and then half a show is all blurry and pixelated due to signal issues with OTA HDTV....I can see this getting pretty deep. I did have a thought a while back that I'd like to mount a 32" tv above the the computer desk, and build in shelving around it. I'd probably want to integrate a tuner card at some point, for HTPC or Tivo Mini, these tuner cards something I learn'ded from Billbill.
Yeah but here's the thing about using your computer as a DVR.
1. Your cable company compresses the video signal to make it smaller file size wise. This means a one hour show on your cable DVR may be quite smaller than the same show recorded using a tuner direct to your computer.
2. ANY NON BASIC CHANNEL your getting now you wont get. Think just NBC/CBS/Fox type stations. You will lose a large chunk of your channels which may or may not be a big deal to you. If you like Sports, forget ESPN or any of those channels unless you have a ESPN account separate that you pay for, and those will likely not be able to be recorded with a tuner.
3. Signal issues are a much bigger deal. I would have times where an entire recording was bad due to a storm in the area. With Uverse/cable I've never had that be an issue unless power was out entirely.
4. Streaming those recordings to another device can be a pain if your network isnt up to speed. Want to stream a 1080p OTA recording to another room, you better be hardwired. I used Windows Media Center to record and then to try and play it back with my Xbox 360. It worked, but it would CONSTANTLY freeze up, and I was hardwired for that.
I get the nickle and dime thing. We have 2 Uverse boxes (master bedroom & HT) and just the regular standard lineup. What I found over and over and over after 6 years with them, call say your going to cancel and see what they will do for you price wise. We've had them drop the price for us year after year down to 20 bucks a month, which isn't SUPER CHEAP, but honestly for 20 bucks a month to have channels WE NEED (with Kids think Disney and all those cartoon channels) its worth it. The biggest part of our bill is the actual internet, which we'd still need even if we cut the TV portion because your still likely wanting to get online and potentially even stream movies/TV shows from Netflix/Hulu.
At this point I've almost given up on trying to NOT do data plans. Everyone wised up and realized that making you pay for content is where its at. Doesnt matter if you dont have a cable contract for TV. If your a cord cutter your likely still paying for internet/Netflix/Hulu and data plans on your phone.
At this point its about mitigating the cost as best you can with family plans with lower data, paying as little as you can for cable, etc."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Thought I'd chime in on something here.
WDTV Live vs XBMC/Kodi.
Yes, WDTV Live is a nice little box that can stream just about everything. I had both the Live and the Live Hub which was my first foray into having network storage for my files. Here is the problem I ran into. The Lives were not consistent in updating the library when I added new files to my network storage. I remember being frustrated on more than one occasion when I wanted to watch a new movie that I had ripped and uploaded to the NAS. This is probably not an issue if you have it hooked to an external drive for streaming.
2nd, WDTV Live has issues with subtitles pulled from BluRay rips. It doesn't see them so you have to either convert them into DVD style subtitles, or "burn them in" with handbrake. This was mainly an issue with foreign language "forced" subtitles.
XBMC/Kodi on the other hand, has a setting to scan library when opened and I find that it works perfectly. If not, it is simple to scroll left in library view and simply tell it to scan library. Also, subtitles work much better in Kodi. It reads the bluray subtitles as it should and recognizes forced subtitles when present.
For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
Thought I'd chime in on something here.
WDTV Live vs XBMC/Kodi.
Yes, WDTV Live is a nice little box that can stream just about everything. I had both the Live and the Live Hub which was my first foray into having network storage for my files. Here is the problem I ran into. The Lives were not consistent in updating the library when I added new files to my network storage. I remember being frustrated on more than one occasion when I wanted to watch a new movie that I had ripped and uploaded to the NAS. This is probably not an issue if you have it hooked to an external drive for streaming.
2nd, WDTV Live has issues with subtitles pulled from BluRay rips. It doesn't see them so you have to either convert them into DVD style subtitles, or "burn them in" with handbrake. This was mainly an issue with foreign language "forced" subtitles.
XBMC/Kodi on the other hand, has a setting to scan library when opened and I find that it works perfectly. If not, it is simple to scroll left in library view and simply tell it to scan library. Also, subtitles work much better in Kodi. It reads the bluray subtitles as it should and recognizes forced subtitles when present.
These are great points @billbillw
I just started noticing the subtitle issues with movies like Guardians of the Galaxy, X-Men First Class (**** scenes with Magneto) and a couple other movies. Since I'm moving to XBMC it is nice to know they will be there (they were ripped as part of the MakeMKV process).
As I have an external drive directly connected I haven't run into the not finding new stuff issues, and it does identify new movies when added to the external drive and then reconnected."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »
my cable does that sometimes, too. I want to get rid of my cable boxes, that's another reason I wanted to try tuner cards. Really tired of getting nickeled and dimed. again, who knows, I may end up begging for my cable boxes back. I just want to try something different for a while to see how it works. I've never had the experience.EndersShadow wrote: »
Tuner cards can be a PITA TBH..... I used a Hauppauge 2250 which I still have in a box. It recorded decent but ANY issue with signal and it resulted in issues with the picture on the recording, which could sometimes be a PAIN when your streaming and then half a show is all blurry and pixelated due to signal issues with OTA HDTV....I can see this getting pretty deep. I did have a thought a while back that I'd like to mount a 32" tv above the the computer desk, and build in shelving around it. I'd probably want to integrate a tuner card at some point, for HTPC or Tivo Mini, these tuner cards something I learn'ded from Billbill.
Yeah but here's the thing about using your computer as a DVR.
1. Your cable company compresses the video signal to make it smaller file size wise. This means a one hour show on your cable DVR may be quite smaller than the same show recorded using a tuner direct to your computer.
2. ANY NON BASIC CHANNEL your getting now you wont get. Think just NBC/CBS/Fox type stations. You will lose a large chunk of your channels which may or may not be a big deal to you. If you like Sports, forget ESPN or any of those channels unless you have a ESPN account separate that you pay for, and those will likely not be able to be recorded with a tuner.
3. Signal issues are a much bigger deal. I would have times where an entire recording was bad due to a storm in the area. With Uverse/cable I've never had that be an issue unless power was out entirely.
4. Streaming those recordings to another device can be a pain if your network isnt up to speed. Want to stream a 1080p OTA recording to another room, you better be hardwired. I used Windows Media Center to record and then to try and play it back with my Xbox 360. It worked, but it would CONSTANTLY freeze up, and I was hardwired for that.
I get the nickle and dime thing. We have 2 Uverse boxes (master bedroom & HT) and just the regular standard lineup. What I found over and over and over after 6 years with them, call say your going to cancel and see what they will do for you price wise. We've had them drop the price for us year after year down to 20 bucks a month, which isn't SUPER CHEAP, but honestly for 20 bucks a month to have channels WE NEED (with Kids think Disney and all those cartoon channels) its worth it. The biggest part of our bill is the actual internet, which we'd still need even if we cut the TV portion because your still likely wanting to get online and potentially even stream movies/TV shows from Netflix/Hulu.
At this point I've almost given up on trying to NOT do data plans. Everyone wised up and realized that making you pay for content is where its at. Doesnt matter if you dont have a cable contract for TV. If your a cord cutter your likely still paying for internet/Netflix/Hulu and data plans on your phone.
At this point its about mitigating the cost as best you can with family plans with lower data, paying as little as you can for cable, etc.
I've gotta disagree with some of what you have said here. You must have been using a in the clear QAM tuner for your recording. Things are quite different using a cable card tuner like the SiliconDust HDHR3-CC (or equivalent Ceton). The video recorded by an HTPC will be exactly the same size file as what you would record with a cable company DVR. They use the same encryption/compression and they are saved the same. That is not an issue.
Also, the amount of channels you receive will be identical (not including OnDemand). With a cable card paired, you get all the channels you subscribe to. No exceptions.
The only issue is what type of DRM the cable company puts on them. There is a copy flag that they can put on. It is referred to as Copy Freely, Copy Once, or Copy Never. If it is copy freely, you can record and watch on any device. If it is copy once, it will only record on a machine that has Play Ready implemented (ie a WMC device that is setup properly) and you can only watch it on that same machine (or through an extender device). Depending on your cable company, all the channels may be Copy Once, or it may be limited to premium (HBO/Showtime) channels. Comcast in my area only has Copy Once on Premium channels.
Reliability wise, the HDHR3 tuners were not buggy or problematic at all. I never had any issues with the signal quality from them. If I had issues, it was usually a WMC issue that was solved by a quick restart.
And the nickle and dime thing is a real issue with some cable companies like Comcast. 1st, they charge you an HD Technology fee if you have one of their HD boxes in the house. That is $10. 2nd, they charge you a DVR fee of $10 for one of their DVRs. Then they charge you $10 for each additional outlet. So, with an X1 system on 3 TVs, (single DVR/w extenders for two additional) you'd be looking at $40 extra over their base rate. This is usually true no matter what type of promotional rate you are under.
With a single cable card and no Comcast boxes in the house, you wouldn't be charged any of those fees. Not one. You get the 1st cable card free and they actually give you back a $2.50 credit for "customer owned equipment".
This is real monthly savings above and beyond what you can get from calling in and saying your going to cancel.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
Personally, I am using Lenovo Think Centre M73 Tiny 4th gen i3 and HP 600G1USDT 4th gen i5. Both are about the size of mac mini and has ability to run just about any OS (Win or Linux). The HP is currently running Win10, while the Lenovo is running minimal Ubuntu. Both can be had for under 300 on fleabay with 4gb memory, 500gb hd, built in wireless. The one disadvantage of both is that they do not have hdmi but display port and vga. Since, I am running them head less not a big issue. The display port does support audio so if you use display port to hdmi cable you should be good. I will try that over the weekend and report back.
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I've gotta disagree with some of what you have said here. You must have been using a in the clear QAM tuner for your recording. Things are quite different using a cable card tuner like the SiliconDust HDHR3-CC (or equivalent Ceton). The video recorded by an HTPC will be exactly the same size file as what you would record with a cable company DVR. They use the same encryption/compression and they are saved the same. That is not an issue.
Also, the amount of channels you receive will be identical (not including OnDemand). With a cable card paired, you get all the channels you subscribe to. No exceptions.
The only issue is what type of DRM the cable company puts on them. There is a copy flag that they can put on. It is referred to as Copy Freely, Copy Once, or Copy Never. If it is copy freely, you can record and watch on any device. If it is copy once, it will only record on a machine that has Play Ready implemented (ie a WMC device that is setup properly) and you can only watch it on that same machine (or through an extender device). Depending on your cable company, all the channels may be Copy Once, or it may be limited to premium (HBO/Showtime) channels. Comcast in my area only has Copy Once on Premium channels.
Reliability wise, the HDHR3 tuners were not buggy or problematic at all. I never had any issues with the signal quality from them. If I had issues, it was usually a WMC issue that was solved by a quick restart.
And the nickle and dime thing is a real issue with some cable companies like Comcast. 1st, they charge you an HD Technology fee if you have one of their HD boxes in the house. That is $10. 2nd, they charge you a DVR fee of $10 for one of their DVRs. Then they charge you $10 for each additional outlet. So, with an X1 system on 3 TVs, (single DVR/w extenders for two additional) you'd be looking at $40 extra over their base rate. This is usually true no matter what type of promotional rate you are under.
With a single cable card and no Comcast boxes in the house, you wouldn't be charged any of those fees. Not one. You get the 1st cable card free and they actually give you back a $2.50 credit for "customer owned equipment".
This is real monthly savings above and beyond what you can get from calling in and saying your going to cancel.
Thanks for that info Bill. Its been a while since I've used the tuner (it is a Clear QAM tuner IIRC) as we got cheap cable not long after and then switched to Uverse and haven't ever looked back.
I'm aware of the fee's they add on for HD v SD and per box and router rental. What I was saying is that we've got them to drop the price INCLUDING the fee's to almost nill each time. I think we are paying maybe 20 bucks a month INCLUDING rental fee's for our TV. We have their router, 1 DVR box (hardwired) and another HD box wireless (so dongle + reciever). For us its not been that bad, but thats going to vary vendor to vendor.
So I'd say if your not happy shop around and see if you can find something cheaper, or call them and attempt to negotiate them down on the total bill including rental fee's...."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »
Thanks for that info Bill. Its been a while since I've used the tuner (it is a Clear QAM tuner IIRC) as we got cheap cable not long after and then switched to Uverse and haven't ever looked back.
I'm aware of the fee's they add on for HD v SD and per box and router rental. What I was saying is that we've got them to drop the price INCLUDING the fee's to almost nill each time. I think we are paying maybe 20 bucks a month INCLUDING rental fee's for our TV. We have their router, 1 DVR box (hardwired) and another HD box wireless (so dongle + reciever). For us its not been that bad, but thats going to vary vendor to vendor.
So I'd say if your not happy shop around and see if you can find something cheaper, or call them and attempt to negotiate them down on the total bill including rental fee's....
I don't think you'd ever get Comcast that low on cable service (except for maybe their locals only basic service), no matter how much you threaten to leave. Unfortunately, I don't have another choice on providers at my current house. No Uverse in my neighborhood, too many trees to the south to get DirecTV or Dish, and I'm in a valley so OTA signal is not strong enough.
Fortunately, all those fees that I mentioned do not apply to me because I do not and have never had any Comcast boxes in my house. I've either had Tivo or used WMC with cable card tuners.
For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
EndersShadow wrote: »
Thanks for that info Bill. Its been a while since I've used the tuner (it is a Clear QAM tuner IIRC) as we got cheap cable not long after and then switched to Uverse and haven't ever looked back.
I'm aware of the fee's they add on for HD v SD and per box and router rental. What I was saying is that we've got them to drop the price INCLUDING the fee's to almost nill each time. I think we are paying maybe 20 bucks a month INCLUDING rental fee's for our TV. We have their router, 1 DVR box (hardwired) and another HD box wireless (so dongle + reciever). For us its not been that bad, but thats going to vary vendor to vendor.
So I'd say if your not happy shop around and see if you can find something cheaper, or call them and attempt to negotiate them down on the total bill including rental fee's....
I don't think you'd ever get Comcast that low on cable service (except for maybe their locals only basic service), no matter how much you threaten to leave. Unfortunately, I don't have another choice on providers at my current house. No Uverse in my neighborhood, too many trees to the south to get DirecTV or Dish, and I'm in a valley so OTA signal is not strong enough.
Fortunately, all those fees that I mentioned do not apply to me because I do not and have never had any Comcast boxes in my house. I've either had Tivo or used WMC with cable card tuners.
Gotcha, but you'd never know if you didnt try either. Just be ready to actually cancel when you say your going to lol...
Sounds like a good solution however and its obviously working out well for you. TBH with Hulu & Netflix we have MOST of the shows we want to watch available, but its the Disney stuff and some others for the Kido that are hard to find keeping us from saving even than 20 bucks...
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Oh, I did try, about a year ago. I originally (3 years ago) had a package that was something like $70 for cable and internet. It was one of their middle packages that included most cable channels (but not all). After promos expired, it jumped to over $130. I called, threatened, multiple times. Best Deal I could get was $100 for a package that was actually better (included all the channels that I didn't have before and included HBO). A year later, it has gone up to $110, but I still have HBO, and they upped the internet speed to 90Mbps, so I'm not really complaining.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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Just curious, with Uverse, is that $20 extra on top of a land line+internet plan? If so, what is your total bill? Need to compare apple to apples.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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Since Dan called me out LOL, I'll tell you what I've got and why.
I have a music PC on one of my system with JR. This is where I rip my music to my WD passport HD's. I have an INUC on my other system with JR. I use the INUC for when we do shows. I like the portable HD solution because I also attend audio meets, shows or when I go shopping for gear.
I keep backup on the music PC but my NUC, laptop, and my music PC look for my M:drive which is the Passport all three have JRiver installed...this just works best for me being portable. I have a pelican hard case with NUC and a Chord Qute EX DAC when traveling.
Also for portability I have an AK120II pmp and a Hugo DAC that I carry with RCA cables and head phones. I can plug in or bluetooth anywhere.2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Just curious, with Uverse, is that $20 extra on top of a land line+internet plan? If so, what is your total bill? Need to compare apple to apples.
That 20 is on top of the internet plan (no lan line, we have cells). Wife says the bill is ~120 a month (including tax).
So even if we cancelled the TV portion, we still would need the speed we are getting with our internet, which is where the larger portion of our bill comes from.txcoastal1 wrote: »Since Dan called me out LOL, I'll tell you what I've got and why.
I have a music PC on one of my system with JR. This is where I rip my music to my WD passport HD's. I have an INUC on my other system with JR. I use the INUC for when we do shows. I like the portable HD solution because I also attend audio meets, shows or when I go shopping for gear.
I keep backup on the music PC but my NUC, laptop, and my music PC look for my M:drive which is the Passport all three have JRiver installed...this just works best for me being portable. I have a pelican hard case with NUC and a Chord Qute EX DAC when traveling.
Also for portability I have an AK120II pmp and a Hugo DAC that I carry with RCA cables and head phones. I can plug in or bluetooth anywhere.
YES SIR I DID
.... No sitting on the sidelines for you 
And obviously your running Windows for the OS on the NUC. Are you controlling JRiver with the app, a tablet, keyboard and mouse, your mind?.....
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
[/quote]YES SIR I DID.... No sitting on the sidelines for you
And obviously your running Windows for the OS on the NUC. Are you controlling JRiver with the app, a tablet, keyboard and mouse, your mind?.....[/quote]
I have a mini-mouse, keyboard, and a 7" monitor in the pelican case just for back up, but Jriver auto boots and auto starts. Also in the case is a wifi router that links Ipad app and NUC
If I need a real monitor while doing shows I can use hotel TV via HDMI
2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »YES SIR I DID.... No sitting on the sidelines for you
And obviously your running Windows for the OS on the NUC. Are you controlling JRiver with the app, a tablet, keyboard and mouse, your mind?.....
I have a mini-mouse, keyboard, and a 7" monitor in the pelican case just for back up, but Jriver auto boots and auto starts. Also in the case is a wifi router that links Ipad app and NUC
Gotcha. Bullet proof system I see. I can appreciate that one
How is playback controlled though? You gotta have some way to navigate your playlists, artists, pause, skip, etc..."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
