Classe M600: Alright! The twins have arrived!
Comments
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Pass amps give you that cross over of tubes and SS all in one package. All the laid back tube goodness, with the heft and precision of SS.
Yeah, txcoastal offered me to demo his xa30.5... I think I will take him up on it. but I need to set up my system a bit better. I need to get the Strads in a better spot and I also need to try the diamonds on the Classe to see what I like better.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Heck yeah, try it and see. The Xa30.5 is a great amp but no where near the horsepower of those Classe mono's. But try it and see.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
LOL.....Don't think I could cut loose those 211's either.
Joey,
Don't get so hung up on one aspect of the musical spectrum. Detail isn't everything. Find which is more enjoyable to your tastes as a complete presentation and go from there.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
LOL.....Don't think I could cut loose those 211's either.
Joey,
Don't get so hung up on one aspect of the musical spectrum. Detail isn't everything. Find which is more enjoyable to your tastes as a complete presentation and go from there.
Tony,
Honestly they both sound good.
I have to listen some more... but the Classes are VERY favorable at this time.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Sometime it takes a few months of listening to really gauge a piece of gear. You need to get intimate with it. (not sexually)....lol
Me, I like natural and organic. It has to sound "real". I hear many pieces of gear that are too sterile. While they aren't bad sounding, they sound sterile and mechanical and they make me feel disconnected and are boring to listen to.
Precision without soul is boring.
Just commenting in general, not saying this is the case with the Classe's.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Congrats! I can honestly say you guys have introduced me to stuff I have never heard of and probably will never get to hear...... Those amps look like beasts!HT/2Channel: Emotiva MMC-1, Adcom GFA-555II, Polk SDA 3.1's, Teac TN-300 TT, Polk Center and Sub.
Bedroom system: Carver CT-24, Parasound HCA-800II, Monitor 10's
Additional projects: RTA 12c's -
Joey is gonna pick up these babies soon ... lol
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Joey is gonna pick up these babies soon ... lol
That was a recommendation per Ivan over at audioaficionado...
I am on a ban!!Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Congrats! I can honestly say you guys have introduced me to stuff I have never heard of and probably will never get to hear...... Those amps look like beasts!
they are beasts... near limitless power with a soft soft touch.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Give them a few hundred hours to break-in. Add two Shunyata Sigma HC power cords, hopefully on a dedicated 20 amp circuit for each amp. It takes my Pass amps around 48 hours of being on to reach 100% of their sonic potential. Obviously, better interconnects and speaker cables are needed to allow the system to work at its peak. You can guess my preference.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Most likely, you will need a SS preamp to match with the Classe. There could be impedance matching issue between the SS amp and the Tube Pre. Otherwise, I would look to roll the tubes in the SL-P05.
I have SL-P05 but it really need two things for it to stands out.
1. Pope 6SN7s in the last stage (ask from upscale audio)
2. Upgrade the 5AR4 rectifier inside the PS unit with the NOS Amperex / Mullard tubeTrying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
There is no better 5AR4 than the Mullard made ones!! Period. I have 2 that will go to the grave with me, and I don't currently have anything that uses them! They will always be in my stash unless in use."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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Most likely, you will need a SS preamp to match with the Classe. There could be impedance matching issue between the SS amp and the Tube Pre. Otherwise, I would look to roll the tubes in the SL-P05.
I have SL-P05 but it really need two things for it to stands out.
1. Pope 6SN7s in the last stage (ask from upscale audio)
2. Upgrade the 5AR4 rectifier inside the PS unit with the NOS Amperex / Mullard tube
I have philips metal bases for my rectifier. It was a costly upgrade for me. I have not compared to mullard.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Those are Mullards. Philips was the parent company. Philips rectifiers of the day were made on Mullard machines by Mullard engineers, etc, etc.
The metal bases are the earliest and many say they have a slight edge in sound over the later iteration (f31, f32). There are several revisions over the years, but the metal base and f31, f32 coded are considered to be slightly better sounding than the later versions. The other nice ones have 5 serrated plate edges vs. 7, also the plate edges with copper are nice sounding as well. I am going on memory here for the descriptions, so if I have it wrong...............I know someone will correct me.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Joey, the metal base 5AR4 is the nicer ones so you don't need to worry about the Mullards. I know they are costly since I also paid dearly for the Adzam branded Philips / Amperex tubes.
H9, I think the early (5AR4 especially the metal base) ones are made by Philips or Amperex. They may be branded Philips / Valvo / Adzam or Amperex but basically seems like the same tube with the same construction. The different EIA code may indicate the plants and the date but I don't think there is not much different in the early metal based tubes in anyway. But I heard tv2 57 codes are the best one to have (why do I have a feeling it's the marketing hype by the tube sellers?)...
Anyway, the later Mullards are also very nice. I have a pair of mullards in the 6C33C SET amps. I compared them and found only a slight difference in sound when tried in the SL-P05 but the cost difference is like 5X for the metal base 5AR4 so it may not worth it, IMO. But the metal base ones are really showy if you have to proudly display the tubes you run for 100K tube amps or pre.
A little bit off track but related to the 5AR4 since we are speaking about the rectifier tubes. I know that Upscale is touting the Philips 5R4GYS to be the best sub for the 5AR4 but it's not. You don't want to sub or use 5R4 in the 5AR4 spot. Even though they have the same pinouts, electrical specification is Differnt. It'll give your SL-P05 a crazy reading for the plate voltage and current. Some modding is required.
So Don'T Do IT!
My rant about Cary - why the hell do they call the 211 AMP when they are designed to use 845 tubes and not 211 tubes. And in their SET offering, they call it 805 when it's actually made to run 845 or 211 but not the 805 tube...lol
Good Luck Joey! It's gonna be a while before you find a match to those Classe.
Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Yes, I remember, some metal bases made in Holland and some in England (Mullard Blackburn)"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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Mega and Heiney
Thanks for the education.
Mega
Do you have experience with the Cary 805 set amp?Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
I only have experiences with the 211 and not the 805 SET unfortunately. I can tell you this though. I wouldn't want any SET amps that goes into Class A2 region in order to put out more Watts. It's really the quality vs. the quantity of watts
Both my 211/845 SET amps are highly customized and DIY type / custom built ones. All parts are important in the SET amp but more so, the output transformers are even more critical in the SET amps.
Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
So many choices and possible combinations! My head is spinning. There are good problems and bad ones, this falls under the good category. I have a feeling it'll take a while to sort all this out, especially since alot of your choices involve new equipment somewhere in the chain."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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Yep... Gotta hash this out. Both great amps.
The classe is impressively good.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Joey - I think you choice of tube pre and SS amp was the best choice. Classe does make some nice equipment; they were actually my choice until I listened to Mc tube/SS combo. You have built a very impressive system. Now spend some time with it and evaluate appropriately until deciding what to do next.[
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you on ban at AA?
Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
If you SERIOUSLY want to just listen to some SERIOUS stuff without the hard sales pitch, go to an audio show. Can listen to all the high end gear you see in the magazines until you are blue in the face. The big shows are 2-3 days. A lot of fun, great music, and several die hard audio nuts to talk to.Congrats! I can honestly say you guys have introduced me to stuff I have never heard of and probably will never get to hear...... Those amps look like beasts!
The show in Chi (AXPONA) for example has all the BIG names on display.... shops like Audio Solutions of Indi.
or http://quintessenceaudio.com/ in Chi......
Its nuts the gear these guys show up with!
2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
If you SERIOUSLY want to just listen to some SERIOUS stuff without the hard sales pitch, go to an audio show. Can listen to all the high end gear you see in the magazines until you are blue in the face. The big shows are 2-3 days. A lot of fun, great music, and several die hard audio nuts to talk to.Congrats! I can honestly say you guys have introduced me to stuff I have never heard of and probably will never get to hear...... Those amps look like beasts!
The show in Chi (AXPONA) for example has all the BIG names on display.... shops like Audio Solutions of Indi.
or http://quintessenceaudio.com/ in Chi......
Its nuts the gear these guys show up with!
WowMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
you on ban at AA?
Nope... Unless you know something I don't haha
AA is a great placeMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
It is okay. If you like paying $25 a year for basic functionality (PMs, post pictures, sig, avatar) other forums offer for free. He writes the forum expense off as part of his business, and cleans up on member fees. I guess I would do the same thing. Then again, maybe not.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Ive been to their shop. Not that impressive overall IMHO... Yes they have some high end gear.... but nothing I will ever be able to afford, and not a ton of selection in all honesty....
I'd rather visit @DSkip as he's got stuff NO ONE ELSE does......
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Met some good guys on AA, I like it. Can't blame Ivan for having a business acumen.
It is okay. If you like paying $25 a year for basic functionality (PMs, post pictures, sig, avatar) other forums offer for free. He writes the forum expense off as part of his business, and cleans up on member fees. I guess I would do the same thing. Then again, maybe not.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
EndersShadow wrote: »
Ive been to their shop. Not that impressive overall IMHO... Yes they have some high end gear.... but nothing I will ever be able to afford, and not a ton of selection in all honesty....
I'd rather visit @DSkip as he's got stuff NO ONE ELSE does......
Not one shop can cater to all customers.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
AA is a cool place if you like to keep up with the high end stuff. Most folks there are nice and many have an open mind to try out new stuff (since the bad eggs got banned quickly).
The basic membership is free but the subscription will get you to PM. You won't be able to access PM unless you subscribe. I don't mind that but I found most topics become irrelevant to me quickly since I can't afford what they can. Most folks there have multiples of 6 figures rigs and I ran out of topics to discuss quickly. lolTrying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
