Electrician help!
jeremymarcinko
Posts: 3,785
Something went amiss in my service panel. What a better way to spend my fathers day afternoon then to run a 20 amp dedicated circuit for the HT. It should have been a really easy project as my service panel is only about 10ft away just behind the left wall of my Mancave in an unfinished utility room. I ran some vinyl flex conduit and 12-2 to a new 20 amp breaker in an unoccupied location. Flipped the power on checked polarity and all was good, and I began to listen to some music. The wife came down to the utility room to switch the laundry over to the (gas) dryer and when she tried to start it all of the lights in the house dimmed down as the dryer tried to start. Well the dryer wouldn't start so I check it out the panel all looks good. So to HD we go and purchase a new dryer as the other was quite old and I figured it was time. When we get back we notice the house is very warm and my HVAC isn't working now WTF! As I flip the thermostat off and on the lights in my kitchen go out. WTF! Back to the panel I go. No breakers are tripped the blower is running in furnace still the unit outside isn't coming on. WTF! What did you do to it? says the wife. What could I have done? I didn't touch any other circuit in the panel, and now half of the house is without power. I just bought a dryer and now I think I will have to higher an electrician to find out whats what.
Sleeping with the windows open tonight yayee!
Sleeping with the windows open tonight yayee!
Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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holy smoke, my 2nd or 3rd worst nightmares you are facing head on, juice and fire.
Im sorry I don't have expertise technically but will pray for you and hopefully soon you will look back with pride and relief that you overcame this.
Safety first of course, and all in all coulda been much worse
And as you get older, the get togethers will become wonderful even if its the one remembered as the one the electrical wentout!
The memorys will be about other things from that night.
Love each second,
scottand Deb
humpty dumpty was pushed -
I did. I think that my main breaker failed and I am getting only one leg.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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I think the issue is with your a/c. Your compressor draws a lot of current on initial start. On the manufacturers tag you'll see a number with the letters LRA. LRA stands for locked rotar amps. This is the max amount of current the compressor should draw at start up.
Lights dimming at start up means a huge circuit draw, usually from an a/c compressor, but occasionally from a frig. Call your a/c guy. He'll probably recommend either a capacitor and/or a hard start unit, I personally use the Kick Start brand, except with Trane/American Standard or high end Carrier/Bryant, then it mfg spec. Could also mean compressor is shot also, but hopefully that isn't the case.
Can give you step by step instructions for winding tests for your compressor if you like. If an idiot like me does this for a living, it can't be that hard. -
It sounds like a lost Neutral type problem.
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Thanks I will look into that. I dug out my multi meter this morning and I am getting 120v on both legs on the live side of the main 100a breaker, but on the panel side I have power on only the left pole and nothing on the right. Does this mean the main breaker has failed? Or could something be keeping the right pole from resetting? Thoughts?
This is a old wadsworth panel (1970) I am not seeing any replacement breakers for it locally.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
if the breakers are the push lock type replace ASAP those are fire hazards.
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I have talked to an electrician, and they want me to contact the power company first to be sure its not a utility issue. I do not think it is.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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Get that panel replaced, it is a ticking time bomb.The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
Will do. Electrician will be here this afternoon.motorhead43026 wrote: »Get that panel replaced, it is a ticking time bomb.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
I had that sort of thing happen once. I ran some wiring for basement lighting and had the same type of thing happen. It was like the house was only running on half power. My wife said the same thing, "what did you do!?!". Checked the lead into the house with a multi meter and only had half juice coming into the house. The wiring that came into the house, from under ground, had "stretched"/"pulled" enough that one side of the wiring was grounding to the outside box. It had cut right through the insulation. The power company spliced in new wiring and all was well. The service guy said it happens but not very often. This was in winter, so..., I'd rather have no air conditioning than no heat...Remember, when you're running from something, you're running to something...-me
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I will. I think I know what failed but I do not know why it failed or if there is something going on with perhaps the HVAC (rpf's suggestion
) that was causing a high current draw. I have to convince my wife that I am not the reason
I am obviously not an electrician, but there was a time when I went to school for compressed air technology which gave be a nice foundation of knowledge (enough to be dangerous) about electrical theory, refrigeration, and compressed gases. All of which has stuck with me over the years.
What doesn't make sense to me though, is why the dryer wasn't getting the current it needed to start its on a single pole 110/120 circuit. Is it only a coincidence that the dryer happened to fail shortly after finishing my 20A dedicated project, which in turn caused the main breaker to fail because of the repeated attempts trying to start it. Or was the HVAC failing which caused a voltage drop and thereby not allowing the dryer to come on...and finally why didn't any of the other breakers trip.
My best guess is that I was gradually losing one pole on the main 100A breaker and each time I tried to restart the dryer or flip the thermostat on and off the increase in current would continue to destroy the failing pole until it give up the ghost altogether.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
No breakers ever tripped. At this point I have turned off the 2 pole breakers to the HVAC and Range for precautions. Every circuit feeding off the left pole does not have any power at this point.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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I have power on both legs coming into the house from the meter, so my guess is the main breaker. However I cannot turn off the power at the meter to safely replace the main myself because the meter has a tag on it.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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Good luck Jeremy. I have thought myself about completing a 20 amp circuit in a similar type of situation, and have been putting off doing it myself out of concern that hiring someone with experience in working on electrical systems in late 1960s homes in this area would be a safer thing to do. I had an electrician inspect the home before I bought it because of some shady DIY lighting work and a bare extension cord running through a wall to a patio, and everything checked out ok once the pro fixed it all. Given your experience, I will get a licensed electrician to do the install in my house. I doubt in your case it was something you did wrong, but more likely a system problem that may have existed for some time and surfaced after your addition stressed the system a bit more than usual. Starting with a new breaker box and trouble shooting from there sounds like it may be the best idea.
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I leave this type of work to experienced electricians, especially on older service panels. Hopefully you'll get all of this straightened out in a day or two. Better safe than sorry.
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Speedskater wrote: »It sounds like a lost Neutral type problem.
I had a broken neutral once, and am not sure how long it was broken. The only abnormal electrical events that seemed to occur were both of my Bryston BDP-1 file players would occasionally display over voltage error. Other than that, I never noticed anything else, and since getting it fixed I haven't seen that error.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
I would much rather do things myself, but in this case I can not disconnect my power from the meter, or replace the panel myself without a permit, which only a licensed electrician can get. I learn so much more doing and making mistakes then hiring supposed professionals. Last winter when my furnace broke I had to convince the tech that he was wrong so that he would fix what was actually bad. Don't get me wrong I always listen and consider their experiences.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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jeremymarcinko wrote: »I would much rather do things myself, but in this case I can not disconnect my power from the meter, or replace the panel myself without a permit, which only a licensed electrician can get. I learn so much more doing and making mistakes then hiring supposed professionals. Last winter when my furnace broke I had to convince the tech that he was wrong so that he would fix what was actually bad. Don't get me wrong I always listen and consider their experiences.
It is best to know your limitations which it sounds like you do. Leave this to the professional's it will be costly but life is not cheap and you're not going to look good as burnt toast:)
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Plus , after a fire, if the home insurance company investigators find something suspicious in the panel or wiring that caused the fire, the insurance co. could possibly not cover the damage. I'm all for DIY, but when it comes to electricity , I leave it to the experts.
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Might want to consider having the electrician put a disconnect in by the meter on the outside of the house.
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Would the disconnect be for the a/c unit drselect?
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It isn't allowed in city limits. That is how the city controls the permit and code process that keeps dumb-asses like me from doing their own work. If I would clip the tag and disconnect the power at the meter, the digital meter itself is wired to alert the utility company and someone will show up to see whats what. A licensed contractor can call and get permission to remove tag, with his license number.Might want to consider having the electrician put a disconnect in by the meter on the outside of the house.
Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
I think we have the same problem here in Houston. About 2 years ago the city made everyone go from the old style of meters to the new digital ones. A lot of folks were pi**ed off , feeling too much govt. control. Plus the homes with the new meters get charged a little extra every month. I think there was enough ruckus ,that now you can go back to the old meter ,but now there's a larger fee for it or something. Can't win for losing,lol.
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yeah it's hot and humid here too. I still have power to the stereo upstairs so I still have tunes and the kids tv still works. Luckily the refrigerator still working.Yeah, good luck! I know with the humidity we are having now, I would not be able to survive without A/C, let alone music and tv..lol
Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
I think its time for this old panel to go!Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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@ Jeremy, you live in Cleveland, OH? I supply those meters to the City if you do.The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
Columbus, South Central Power.
Electrician was supposed to be here around two....Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
South Central is also a customer of mine. No show of the electrician is not good.The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
It was indeed the the main breaker. Fella is coming back in the morning to install a new panel, apparently the old wadsworth breakers are hard to come by.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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Now you can tell your wife not to jump to conclusions and blame you next time.
afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk
