Can you hear the difference?
TCK
Posts: 231
Thought this was interesting. To compress or not to compress, that is the question. I would suggest not doing the test with your phone or tablet, it would make it more difficult.
http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality
http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality
- SDA 2B (1989, Oak Tops, 194s, Spikes)
- Monitor 7B (1982 Peerless, Sonicaps, Mills, BH5, JB Welded, Binding Posts)
- (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Flat Black)
- SVS SB 3000 (Gloss Black)
- Pioneer SC-1222K AVR
- Marantz MM 7055 (5 Ch Amp)
- Pioneer PD-D6 SACD Player
- Marantz NR1403 AVR
- Sony UBP-X800M2 (4k Blu-ray)
- Sony UBP-X1100ES (4K Blu-ray)
- Adcom GFA 555 Amp
- Monitor 5 (194s, Side Surrounds)
- Monitor 5Jr+ (194s) {Storage}
- LG OLED65CXPUA (4K OLED TV)
- LG 55UN7300PUF (4K HD TV)
- RT35i (Cherry)
- (2 Pair) RT25i (Cherry)
- CS400 (Center)
- CS350 (Center)
- F/Xi A4 (Rear Surrounds)
- RT25 (Rear Surrounds) {Storage}
- Audioquest Interconnects
- Blu-Jean Speaker Cables & Interconnects
" But boy do I remember the strain of her refrain " LG
- Monitor 7B (1982 Peerless, Sonicaps, Mills, BH5, JB Welded, Binding Posts)
- (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Flat Black)
- SVS SB 3000 (Gloss Black)
- Pioneer SC-1222K AVR
- Marantz MM 7055 (5 Ch Amp)
- Pioneer PD-D6 SACD Player
- Marantz NR1403 AVR
- Sony UBP-X800M2 (4k Blu-ray)
- Sony UBP-X1100ES (4K Blu-ray)
- Adcom GFA 555 Amp
- Monitor 5 (194s, Side Surrounds)
- Monitor 5Jr+ (194s) {Storage}
- LG OLED65CXPUA (4K OLED TV)
- LG 55UN7300PUF (4K HD TV)
- RT35i (Cherry)
- (2 Pair) RT25i (Cherry)
- CS400 (Center)
- CS350 (Center)
- F/Xi A4 (Rear Surrounds)
- RT25 (Rear Surrounds) {Storage}
- Audioquest Interconnects
- Blu-Jean Speaker Cables & Interconnects
" But boy do I remember the strain of her refrain " LG
Comments
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I got 4/6 with a pair of ATH M50 headphones straight to my HP laptop. I don't think that's statistically significant.
Interestingly, I never missed by guessing the lowest quality (128 kbps).Polk Fronts: RTi A7's
Polk Center: CSi A6
Polk Surrounds: FXi A6's
Polk Rear Surround: RTi4
Sub: HSU VTF-3 (MK1)
AVR: Yamaha RX-A2010
B&K Reference 200.7
TV: Sharp LC-70LE847U
Oppo BDP-103 -
Haven't done that test, but I can easily hear the difference between a CD recorded as an MPS and one recorded lossless from a redbook."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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drumminman wrote: »Haven't done that test, but I can easily hear the difference between a CD recorded as an MPS and one recorded lossless from a redbook.
Same here.....though I'm not as picky for just background music.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Why would anyone compress with hard drive realestate so cheap? I didn't get into "Hi-Fi" 37yrs ago to listen to compressed music.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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Why would anyone compress with hard drive realestate so cheap? I didn't get into "Hi-Fi" 37yrs ago to listen to compressed music.
Agree 100%. You can get a 2TB portable external drive for like 50 bucks now.
2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
I got 4/6 with a pair of ATH M50 headphones straight to my HP laptop. I don't think that's statistically significant.
Interestingly, I never missed by guessing the lowest quality (128 kbps).
Coming out of a laptop's headphone jack, the most significant negative influence on sound will be the PC's internal DAC, not the sampling rate of the track... making the test virtually impossible.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
falconcry72 wrote: »
True, but you can't carry it around with you.
Lets face it, the going trend is portable and portable has it's space limits. Add to that the need for people to, god knows why too, to have thousands of songs on their portables and you can understand the need for compression.
Other than that, for serious listening, I see no reason to compress anything except the Panini I'm going to chow down on.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
falconcry72 wrote: »
True, but you can't carry it around with you.
Lets face it, the going trend is portable and portable has it's space limits. Add to that the need for people to, god knows why too, to have thousands of songs on their portables and you can understand the need for compression.
Other than that, for serious listening, I see no reason to compress anything except the Panini I'm going to chow down on.
Sure you can! My 1TB portable is smaller than a deck of cards and doesn't require external power. I also have a tiny 128GB drive on my key chain with a more limited selection of "go-to" tracks. All FLAC on both, of course.
mmmmm what's in the panini?
2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
I took the test three times and never got more than three right. I used my Polk Buckle headphones through my pc first, then from the onkyo integrated streamed from airfoil using using its Wolfson DAC, and finally from the pc's line out straight to the Onkyo bypassing it's DAC. During the final test, however, the right channel of my Polk Buckles give up the ghost. Only nine months old too, poor thing
Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
Why would anyone compress with hard drive realestate so cheap? I didn't get into "Hi-Fi" 37yrs ago to listen to compressed music.
There is nothing wrong with compression as long as it is lossless. Waste not, want not, is my feeling. With FLAC and ALAC I turn my 500GB into almost 1TB, and my 1TB into almost 2TB. The extra space allows me to have more songs on each drive, which is especially nice when downloading DSD files which cannot be compressed.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Why would anyone compress with hard drive realestate so cheap? I didn't get into "Hi-Fi" 37yrs ago to listen to compressed music.
There is nothing wrong with compression as long as it is lossless. Waste not, want not, is my feeling. With FLAC and ALAC I turn my 500GB into almost 1TB, and my 1TB into almost 2TB. The extra space allows me to have more songs on each drive, which is especially nice when downloading DSD files which cannot be compressed.
+1. I bet Steve was referencing lossy compression methods. I remember when SHN (shorten) first came out... it was revolutionary. FLAC is of course better though.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
jeremymarcinko wrote: »I took the test three times and never got more than three right. I used my Polk Buckle headphones through my pc first, then from the onkyo integrated streamed from airfoil using using its Wolfson DAC, and finally from the pc's line out straight to the Onkyo bypassing it's DAC. During the final test, however, the right channel of my Polk Buckles give up the ghost. Only nine months old too, poor thing
Again, if there is any single component or environmental element that acts as a larger SQ bottleneck than the compression method, then the compression method becomes irrelevant.
Example 1: In my car setup, it makes no difference whether I'm listening to an mp3 file or a FLAC file due to the many other bottlenecks that are worse offenders; i.e., ipod internal DAC, headphone jack, tape adapter, stock head unit, stock speakers, road noise, yappin' girlfriend, etc.).
Example 2: In my "big-rig"? You bet your sweet **** it makes a difference. Huge difference. At this point I think my hearing is the biggest bottleneck in that system, and my hearing is pretty darn good.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
oooh, good stuff. I've been wanting to try some "blind tests".
took a quick stab at this at my office computer with Bose TP-1A headphones, which I typically enjoy overall, connected to 3.5mm headphone port on the computer with SoundMAX Integrated Digital HD Audio, a Dell workstation standard, I think.
I got 4 out of 6. almost had 5, but changed my mind on one.
with some of these pieces, I was able to more confidently detect what I thought sounded better. others were more difficult. I have to admit, the differences were pretty subtle in most cases, and I feel like I was guessing, mostly. I have to acknowledge my hardware limitations here, and wonder how it would be with a DAC/headphone amp, and more revealing headphones. I listened for fullness, mostly, to try to ID better the better quality samples, and for crunchy emptiness, mostly, to try to ID the lower quality streams.
on my home gear, I can tell a difference a bit more readily sometimes. Almost all of my listening is through streaming services. some are lower quality streams - 128K, while others are higher quality, up to 320K. I think these are all either VBR or CBR. as noted above, for background listening, I don't really pay much attention. for relax music sessions, though, I do prefer a more moderate/relaxed volume and fuller sound, and I enjoy what is, for me currently, a somewhat subtle to noticeable improvement in quality that makes the session just that much more of an enjoyable experience.
one of the other things that sucks about streaming services is the apparent dB cut sometimes? with the Squeezebox, once can view the stream statistics, and sometimes, say with Pandora for example, there can be upto a 5dB cut in a track; I'm not really sure how accurate this is, though, or what it really means aside from a "levels" drop, or normalization. it's annoying though.
good stuff, fun post!I disabled signatures. -
lotta talkin' here, few results posts.
so basically most of you guys are afraid to take the test, even just for fun?I disabled signatures. -
I would be careful, taking that test killed my Buckles. I am pretty sure it was Katy Perry that did them in.
Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
Great posts. I basically echo the above comments. I can definately hear the difference w a cd on a decent system, especially the cymbal crashes and the low bass. But I did horribly when listening with the iPad. I think my best was 3 out of 6 with the coin sized speakers.
- SDA 2B (1989, Oak Tops, 194s, Spikes)
- Monitor 7B (1982 Peerless, Sonicaps, Mills, BH5, JB Welded, Binding Posts)
- (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Flat Black)
- SVS SB 3000 (Gloss Black)
- Pioneer SC-1222K AVR
- Marantz MM 7055 (5 Ch Amp)
- Pioneer PD-D6 SACD Player
- Marantz NR1403 AVR
- Sony UBP-X800M2 (4k Blu-ray)
- Sony UBP-X1100ES (4K Blu-ray)
- Adcom GFA 555 Amp
- Monitor 5 (194s, Side Surrounds)
- Monitor 5Jr+ (194s) {Storage}
- LG OLED65CXPUA (4K OLED TV)
- LG 55UN7300PUF (4K HD TV)
- RT35i (Cherry)
- (2 Pair) RT25i (Cherry)
- CS400 (Center)
- CS350 (Center)
- F/Xi A4 (Rear Surrounds)
- RT25 (Rear Surrounds) {Storage}
- Audioquest Interconnects
- Blu-Jean Speaker Cables & Interconnects
" But boy do I remember the strain of her refrain " LG -
My mistake, "compressed" meaning lossy codecs.
There's a youtube video (wish i could remember it) where they did a null between the original track and a lossy codec version; then they playback the "difference" so what you hear is the distortion/hash after being converted to lossy. One listen to those tracks, and you'll never utter the word mp3 again.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
Lossy codecs have NO place in Hi-Fi, PERIOD.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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Tried twice just using my Logitech Z-Cinema computer speakers. First try got 5 out of 6, second try 4 out of 6. Missed Katy Perry on both tries, and Mozart on the second.
Don't have any way to send it to my main system. I think they could have probably found better material to demonstrate the differences. -
Everyone should take this test. It is a pretty good example of the differences.
I got 4 out of 6 and the 2 I got wrong I selected the 320 which sounds almost exactly like the real thing. Pretty cool I enjoyed this , thanks for posting it.
I should mention I used a pair of Apple in ear head phones which are not very good but I was still able to tell some differences. I'm gonna Airplay it to my Apple TV and see if I can hear the differences more .Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Over Airplay I got 4 out of 6 right.
I still picked the 320 track on Jay Z and Coldplay which to me where the hardest to hear differences.
The other 4 where more noticeable.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Coldplay sounded compressed to me on all examples...just a bad recording, I suppose. I could usually get the JZ one, after I learned what to listen for. The loudest bass or fullest bass was 128, but the other two were more difficult. After listening a few times I could tell the bass in the wav file was about the same level as the 320 but had a bit more depth and detail. The solo woman singer was impossible for me to distinguish.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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Blame her...sort of
http://www.openculture.com/2012/02/suzanne_vega_the_mother_of_the_mp3_records_toms_diner_with_the_edison_cylinder.html- SDA 2B (1989, Oak Tops, 194s, Spikes)
- Monitor 7B (1982 Peerless, Sonicaps, Mills, BH5, JB Welded, Binding Posts)
- (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Flat Black)
- SVS SB 3000 (Gloss Black)
- Pioneer SC-1222K AVR
- Marantz MM 7055 (5 Ch Amp)
- Pioneer PD-D6 SACD Player
- Marantz NR1403 AVR
- Sony UBP-X800M2 (4k Blu-ray)
- Sony UBP-X1100ES (4K Blu-ray)
- Adcom GFA 555 Amp
- Monitor 5 (194s, Side Surrounds)
- Monitor 5Jr+ (194s) {Storage}
- LG OLED65CXPUA (4K OLED TV)
- LG 55UN7300PUF (4K HD TV)
- RT35i (Cherry)
- (2 Pair) RT25i (Cherry)
- CS400 (Center)
- CS350 (Center)
- F/Xi A4 (Rear Surrounds)
- RT25 (Rear Surrounds) {Storage}
- Audioquest Interconnects
- Blu-Jean Speaker Cables & Interconnects
" But boy do I remember the strain of her refrain " LG -
I've been a ripping madman for the past year and have had plenty of time to test all settings on my program and have found the one setting that works best for me. All in FLAC of course, and I guess I'm not a HiFi guy and never will be. I just know what sounds good (to me) and with the setting I now use (yes it requires more space on the hard drive) but with over 5000 cd's at my finger tips, I would not change that for anything. It does help to have great gear to make it all happen. So my 2 cents is, do your own test with your own gear to see what sounds the best to you!"if it's not fun, it's not worth it & remember folks, "It's All About The Music"!!
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Eh, we all enjoy what we like. 320 for me is good for background music, partys and such, but when I really want to listen nothing short of a good lossless track will work for me.
Like we always say, the more revealing your system becomes, the more these differences become apparent.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Lossy codecs have NO place in Hi-Fi, PERIOD.
YEP .................
Take a song you are extremely familiar with, compress it with lossy compression and listen comparing to the full version on a nice rig and you can tell the difference EVERYTIME.
Take some random tracks, listen through a computer and you're going to be unsure. Which is all this exercise proves.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
