Sonos - Syncronization and Streaming Services; Spotify, Pandora?

msg

Anyone here using multiple synced Sonos Connects with Spotify and Pandora services?
Can it also do custom internet radio streams?

I'm looking for something to work reliably with both of these services, and be able to work, synced across 3 systems.

Love the Squeezeboxii, but have been having a heck of a time getting them to work with Spotify in sync mode. All other services work perfectly, just not Spotify. I've found some pita workarounds, reverting firmware, etc., but I've found nothing reliable yet at this point that makes this easy. Just want something that works with Spotify without the hassle. By itself, I really enjoy the SBT, or with any other service, it's great, but this Spotify hiccup is killing it for me.

mantis

All day every day, sonos is for you. But I'm not sure what custom Internet radio stations mean, they have tons of Internet radio stations from all over the world.

msg

with the Squeezebox, you can add custom URLs. some subscription based internet radio services issue custom URLs with your login info embedded. I don't use this often - mostly just the "off the shelf" ones, like 181.fm's stations, for example.

another one is DI.fm. they say for premium content they require a "channel stream URL"
Looks like this is supported for Sonos, though - http://www.di.fm/content/hardware-players

Should probably try to find a Connect to play with and see for myself whether it's a practical alternative.

I do enjoy the SB control apps and browser Remote.

The main thing I'm looking for is the synchronization with these apps and throughput of higher resolution streams. Spotify will do 320K. I think Pandora still only does 192K through a browser? It's only 128K on the SBT. Seamless synchronization one of the things Sonos is known for, right?


Side note - if anyone has any info on this Spotify reliability for SBT, I'd love to hear from you if you've experienced and solved this problem. I've been trying to read up on it off and on over a few months, but so far nothing definitive.

tonyb

Yes, with the Sonos you can add your own Url's for Radio stations. As far as reliability with Spotify goes, that's Spotify itself imho. That said, usually when you have reliability issues, you need to do the upgrades offered. All of these music services and providers like Sonos, SB, Bluesound, etc, have constant upgrades in their software you need to keep up with. SBT....not being supported anymore will eventually have issues with reliability unless someone creates the bug fixes for you to download.

Sonos software is pretty good, downside is your held at cd quality, no higher rez and no plans to add it either. If you can live with that, then Sonos is your ticket. The Bluesound I believe will hit the higher rez files for you if that's your flavor.

msg

thanks Tony. what is the spec for CD resolution quality?

tonyb

16/44 files.....lossless, around 1400 mbs. No music service I know of to date is streaming higher than that. The benefits of higher rez streaming comes at the expense of your own personal music collection or downloads. If your streaming from a music service though, your fine.

Use a good dac though for added SQ benefits. I have 2 connects or ZP90 as they used to call them. One is a Cullen modded box, I use going into a Cary Xciter dac and am pleased with that. The other is a standard box hooked up to an old Sony receiver for background listening in the kitchen and out on the deck. Receiver has speaker A+B switching so I cover 2 areas with one box. You can group the 2 or play different music on each, no biggie. Expandable to something like 30 zones.

msg

okay, great, thanks.
I don't really have a handle on high resolution audio streaming yet, so those numbers don't mean anything to me right now - 16bit at 44k?

further, I don't even really know what the SBT supports for comparison, anyway. it's just never been a consideration before, really. I just took what was there by default.

obviously got some more research to do, but sounds like the SC might fit the bill for the no-fuss synced streaming of Spotify, Pandora, and radio, which is the main issue right now. I noticed they provide native support for some of the other services I use, too, so that's cool.

I don't have anything in local high resolution yet. man. all those years ripping and collecting at 128K, then on to 192K and 320VBR when I got a liddle pickier. I'll probably start by re-ripping my favorites to see what this is all about.

tonyb

You always want to rip your collection in a lossless format like Flac or even apple lossless. Anything less is wasting your time and compromising your files sound quality.

SBT was able to do 24/96 files if I'm not mistaken.

msg

sure, agreed now that I've had a bit of an education. a lot of my collection was created way back, beginning in the mid/late 90s when I couldn't really appreciate such quality. I don't think I've ripped a cd in five years at this point, hehe

tonyb

msg wrote: »

sure, agreed now that I've had a bit of an education. a lot of my collection was created way back, beginning in the mid/late 90s when I couldn't really appreciate such quality. I don't think I've ripped a cd in five years at this point, hehe

Ya know, since music services have come along, neither have I. I ripped my 500 or so cd's in lossless that I had in my collection, other than listening to that everything else has been by way of a music service. Tell ya what, even though these music services are compromised in SQ, hooking them up to a dac can make them enjoyable at least.

rooftop59

Not to overstate the obvious, but Tony doesn't use spotify iirc, so you need someone to chime in who has actually done this, i.e., sinks spotify on several different sonos players simultaneously. I have a decent sized collection all ripped lossless, and that sinks great across various SBs, but I haven't tried to sink spotify. And honestly its not that big of a deal to me. The only time I have multiple setups going at the same time is for parties and that's the zone 2 on my receiver feeding a switching amp to patio and living room speakers, so its all being feed by the same SB, no synching necessary.

I hope someone has an answer to your question. I am curious if this is something spotify just doesn't want to allow on any platform (because they want you to pay for multiple accounts to be listening on multiple players at the same time, even if its the same music - that's why they just added the "family" plans...)

WagnerRC

where is the best place to download the apple lossless software? Thanks

msg

yes, agreed, I was really hoping to hear from other Spotify users, but I really don't see much mention of it on the forum in general. to me, it's been a no brainer. higher resolution streaming of pretty much anything I want to hear for $10 a month. I still buy some of the more obscure stuff on cd, and some of my favorites, but other than that, it's mostly Spotify, Pandora, DI.fm, 181.fm Chill, and 181.fm 90's alt.

so you're still using the SB's then. cool. yeah, I do use all of mine synced pretty regularly - I like them running for background music throughout the house, and hope to have a small garage system running soon, as well. in the beginning, I never considered the desire to have music in multiple spaces controlled through a single piece of equipment, even though a friend recommended buying a receiver with multiple zones and going with in ceiling speakers. I guess I was more 2ch oriented at the time than I thought, and it just didn't really register with me that I'd want music filling multiple spaces. he's an installer and does more home automation and HT type stuff, and isn't really into it much for the music, aside from background presence. I have considered it recently though, and wondered whether it would have been a better decision, but at the time, it wasn't the right fit for me. I couldn't find a receiver I liked early on, and ended up with used, older model separates. all in all, I'm enjoying multiple systems because it's given me the opportunity to tinker and audition more stuff and learn a little more about setup, cables, quality, and room acoustics and such.


I'm thinking at this point, it may just make sense to grab of couple of these and test them for myself. I've been enjoying purchasing used gear, and for something like this, where ultimately I'd probably end up with four units, I'd prefer to buy used to be able to save a couple hundred bucks, but I'm thinking I'll buy from a safe returns place on the first two just to make sure it works, and go from there.

In my research on this the past couple of days, I read that running Spotify synced on Sonos only occupies one data stream, whereas, on the SB, it's three individual streams. I don't know that that's true, though. I don't think the other services work that way either - DI.fm polices very closely multiple points of access through their premium service, and they'll shut you down for an hour in short order if they pick up on it. I've had it happen to me a few times accidentally. I'll have left it running on my computer at the office, and then come home, and it stops working after a while, and then I get the wrist slapping email from them. but that hasn't happened running DI on the SB's in sync. this would probably require watching outgoing traffic in firewall logs or something to be sure.

The Spotify problem happens sometimes even without being in sync mode. When that happened the other night, it dawned on me whether it was some of my other devices polling Spotify, and that maybe that was possibly kicking the SB off temporarily - like they were fighting over precedence. My next experiment on this is going to be to make sure my other devices are in Spotify Offline mode before using the SB in sync, and going from there.

I am still experimenting with the firmware that will allow Spotify to run in SB sync mode, without the "invalid username password" message that pops up whenever I tried to do so. So far, the only workarounds I've found for this are

• Revert to previous firmware. still experimenting with finding the latest version that allows sync without the error, but I know it works with 7.6.1 (7.7.3 is the current version, I think)
  • I knew this used to work at one point, and then seemed to stop working all of a sudden. I'll keep updating the firmware one level at a time until that error returns. after the failure remained after backing down two versions from current, I figured the rule of halves was the faster way to determine whether there was a firmware version that would let this work properly, so now it's just about working my way back up from here.
• Unsync all SB's, restart them. run Spotify individually on each, then sync the peripheral ones to the main, one at a time. this only works until you change playlists, though, then the whole thing fails again with the "invalid username or password"

I'm just growing a little impatient with the clunk of this issue. for individual use, or for anything other than sync mode with Spotify, the SB's are pretty reliable, and I like the added atmosphere of the display on the SBT.

msg

WagnerRC wrote: »

where is the best place to download the apple lossless software? Thanks

is this not an option from within iTunes? or is it, indeed, separate software?

btw, when are we gonna hear about the M6si?
(or have I missed that somewhere already?)

WagnerRC

It is not an issue in Itunes. I am hooking up the music hall mmf5 today. I am very very please with the m6si and I am adding a pangea ac9 today. I have never used an aftermarket ac cord before. These cables are impressive. I am also sold on the acoustic zen interconnects and speaker cables. This is taken to a whole new level

msg

nice on the m6si. love to hear that setup.

here, check this out. do you see this in your version of iTunes?

WagnerRC

Thanks that did the trick. much appreciated

msg

sure thing, man.

tonyb

WagnerRC wrote: »

It is not an issue in Itunes. I am hooking up the music hall mmf5 today. I am very very please with the m6si and I am adding a pangea ac9 today. I have never used an aftermarket ac cord before. These cables are impressive. I am also sold on the acoustic zen interconnects and speaker cables. This is taken to a whole new level

Man, where's my hookers and blow for all those suggestions ? LOL

When you finally peel the sack off your face, throw up some thoughts on all that. Inquiring minds and all that. Glad your digging the sound.

The Zen cables really have a black background. The music comes out from a dark world absent of noise and is kinda spooky if your not used to a black background. Nice bass response, great mids and a top end that won't yank your eardrums out from fatigue. Given the characteristics of the MF M6i, I thought the matchup would be pretty amazing. Obviously Mr. Wagner thinks so anyway.

vcwatkins

Sonos works extremely reliably syncing across several devices. I am always synced across six devices and have never been out of sync, whether I'm playing from a HD or using Spotify (premium provides 320 rate), Pandora, Tidal (CD quality), Linn Jazz (320, may need url, don't recall), Radio Paradise (320 need url). Several other streaming services can be setup easily. Commercial radio stations, including local ones, can also be easily accessed.

With Squeezelite (a PC-based SB emulator), I sometimes get a lag at the PC, but other than that, I don't have frequent sync problems. But they do occur from time to time.

msg

excellent, thanks, that's what I needed to know.
are these all Sonos Connects, or various Sonos devices?

what are you using your Squeezelite box for, btw?

txcoastal1

Sonos uniquely creates it's own sub-network once (1) unit hard wires into your network.

This keeps them synced

msg

I thought that was only if you were using the bridge, no?

txcoastal1

The bridge is to either extend range and/or makes it easier to locate a unit if hard wire is not an option for the unit

msg

Ah, I see.
Were earlier units hardwire only? Or have they always been wifi capable?

txcoastal1

Their design has always been 1 unit hardwired either a bridge or music unit.

If you have multiple units only 1 can be hardwired or there will be conflict of the Sonos wireless sub-network

I also have a Bluesound vault, I hate the UI, so I don't use it because the play list set up

msg

Is it a requirement to have one hardwired unit?

txcoastal1

Yes either a music unit or just use a bridge where your network hub is located

tonyb

txcoastal1 wrote: »

Yes either a music unit or just use a bridge where your network hub is located

Really all depends on where your router is located in your home. I use a bridge because mine is in the laundry room. The bridge also extends the Sonos network. I've taken my controller outside 100 ft away from the house and it still worked. Shockingly good range.

As with anything wi-fi, the location and quality of your router is key to dependability of the signal. Some people have it in the canyons of a basement stuck in a corner or an attic and wonder why they get drop outs.

msg

The Sonos Connect arrived yesterday, but haven't had a chance to mess with it yet. In talks with TXC, I'm gonna need a Bridge since I don't have ethernet at any of my systems, currently. Didn't have time to pick one up on my way back in yesterday.

In the meantime, this morning, avoiding a workout and other more important responsible adulty things, in my last ditch effort to rule out firmware as the issue for properly running Spotify in sync mode across multiple Squeezeboxii, I tried one last firmware version, 7.7.1, and it seemed to be stable for a long while, but then after cold booting the units, started messing up again - stopping playing tracks and skipping to the next track. maddening.

I think I've had it with this Spotify and SBT sync issue.
Question now is, do I really need/want Spotify synced enough to make the switch the Sonos and pass the SBT's on to other fans.

It's normal to sometimes want to obliterate stuff with a sledge sometimes, right?

msg

I found a way to run Spotify synced without the problems.

I typically use the Squeezeboxii connected to mysqueezebox.com, as opposed to running through a local Logitech Media Server (LMS). In some reading over the past week, I came across some discussion of the Triode Plugin for Spotify, so I thought I'd give that a shot. It requires use of the locally installed LMS, which I hadn't used before since I wasn't really streaming any local content, eg., my iTunes Library.

So I connected the SB's to the LMS, installed the Triode Spotify plugin. The SB's synced up, but wouldn't play the tracks. Kept popping connection reset by local host errors, and advancing to the next track. s'more reading and happened across information leading me to disable Windows Firewall on the computer running LMS. This worked. Turns out you only needed to disable for the network your SB's are on, in this case, the Home or Private Networks. With some more research I can probably figure out which ports to create exceptions for, and turn this back on, but for now it's off locally, and Spotify is running synced across the Squeezeboxii without any problems.

Still have the Sonos, and not sure I'm ready to make the leap yet to replacing the SBT's. May try out this one Sonos to see how it is, as I definitely like the Sonos UI and app support.

Thanks everyone for the recommendations and info. Big thanks for TXC for fielding all my questions!

I'll post back with Sonos impressions.