Polk SDA-2 Amp/Preamp/Receiver Advice Requested!

BigPondSmallFish

Hey guys/gals,

A few months back, I inherited a pair of good condition Polk SDA-2s from my father (specifically, this model http://www.polksda.com/sda2.shtml). Unfortunately, I don't yet have any way to feed it signal or power, and from what I've read, they are hungry... I've done my best to learn as much as I can about the basics of what I'd need, but I'm willing to admit that there is still a lot I need to learn before I can go buy what I need.

I would love to turn these speakers into something to remind me of him (he always loved these speakers). I've heard systems that make the room come to life, and I'd love to match that with my setup as best I can. My primary usage for the immediate future would be listening to music, but I'd probably like to incorporate them into front speakers for TV/movies in the future. I'd like to keep the total cost for the system (besides the speakers) down between $1,000-1,500 if possible, but I can be somewhat flexible up or down if that would help me get what I need for a quality jump. Also, I have no problem buying something used to help me fit my budget.

Now, as for my question: what would you suggest I pair with these speakers to get the most out of them I can? I assume a separate amp to power the speakers themselves... what about how to get all of my audio sources to the amp? Would you suggest a preamp or receiver with pre-outs?

If you have specific pairings of components, I would love to hear them. If there happens to be some consensus, even better! Thank you all so much for your help, it really means a lot to me.

-BPSF

deronb1

I had great luck with a Parasound HCA 1500a and Parasound PL/D 1100 running a pair of 2Bs.

Schurkey

ANY decent amp that is COMMON-GROUND and will drive a 4-ohm nominal load should be fine. This includes the amplifier section of receivers or integrated amps.

"I" would buy used--but then I'm fairly risk-tolerant. As far as stereo music reproduction, there are dozens if not hundreds of amplifiers, integrated amps, and receivers that could meet your needs.

Adding multi-channel decoding for movies or surround music makes everything much more expensive. AV receivers typically have crap amplifier sections and too-small power supplies.

If I were in the market, I'd buy...just about what I have now: An older preamp-processor lacking the latest "features" but with solid build quality and the ability to decode Dolby Digital and DTS movies. There are many brands and models that fit this profile, mine is an Aragon Stage One, which can be had used for $500 or so--sometimes less.

I'd start with a quality two channel (stereo) power amp, as as time and funds allow, purchase additional amps and speakers as desired.

It shouldn't be too challenging to get a used but quality Pre/Pro and a stereo amp for nicely under a thousand dollars; leaving some budget for additional speakers and amps--although total expenditure of $1500 may be tight.

Some of this, of course, is where you are and what stuff is showing on your local Craigslist. Audio Mart, eBay, and Audiogon are additional sources of used gear.

Faustin

Separate pre amp and amp. Tube pre and a solid state amp. 150 watts a channel at 8 ohms or more. Lots of good used out there. Consider having the speaker crossovers rebuilt....capacitors, resistors, etc. as they deteriorate over time. If $1500 is your max budget you can find gear to get going. It may not be super high end or boutique, but you can definitely get yourself going. Just remember........you will have entered the "rabbit hole".

BigPondSmallFish

Thank you all so much for the input! I really appreciate everyone's advice, and I'm learning a lot. I was checking out online today, and I found a Theta Intrepid 5 channel amp locally for a bit under $900... I think it would have enough power for the SDA-2s, with 200 wpc, and I imagine would be a big jump in audio quality over some of the sub-$1000 MSRP amps. Additionally, it would allow me to upgrade to a 5 channel system later on if I chose to do so. Would this be a good choice from an audio perspective? I'd like to jump on it ASAP if it is.

Thanks again!

edit: I think I'd be out of luck, as they come with this warning in the manual: "Each channel is a balanced bridge amplifier, thus the negative speaker terminal is NOT a ground, and cannot be connected to a ground or a loudspeaker system with a common ground". I think this would mean I can't drive the SDAs with it? Maybe there's a way to make it work?

Schurkey

BigPondSmallFish wrote: »

edit: I think I'd be out of luck, as they come with this warning in the manual: "Each channel is a balanced bridge amplifier, thus the negative speaker terminal is NOT a ground, and cannot be connected to a ground or a loudspeaker system with a common ground". I think this would mean I can't drive the SDAs with it?

Correct. You can't use that amp with your SDA speakers.

BigPondSmallFish wrote: »

Maybe there's a way to make it work?

There is no way to make it work as long as the SDA cable is connected.

Later-generation SDA speakers can use an isolation transformer in the SDA interconnect cable, but not yours.

BigPondSmallFish

Darn. Oh well... Thank you so much for the confirmation. The same seller has a Theta Casa Nova preamp for $900... I'm trying to learn a bit about it now. Thoughts?

I'm wondering if you can run the non-common ground pre-amp through a common ground amp and be alright.

If that doesn't work, I'll drop my dream of getting everything for nothing and return to looking at things I can actually afford :P

Schurkey

Common-grounding of the preamp is a non-issue.

Theta is a top-notch brand name. They're small, but focused on quality. I have no idea how they treat customers who bought "used" product...my guess is "very well", but it's only a guess. Be sure that Theta does what you want. They were sold with "options"; make sure yours has all the features you need.

BigPondSmallFish

nbrowser wrote: »

As for the original question, I've got the SDA 2 series made right after yours with dual SL 2000 tweeters, again a 4 ohm speaker. I'm powering mine with a Parasound HCA-1200II amplifier, it's good for 315 watts a channel to each SDA and is indeed common ground. Sounds absolutely splendid.

So far, two votes for Parasound. What pre-amp are you using?

dkfreebird

Make that 3 votes for the Parasound 1200ii,and depending on how many inputs and outputs you need for the preamp try a Dared 2000a tube pre.I run this with my 2.3tl's and love it.

BigPondSmallFish

So, I prove once again that I'm bad at setting a price limit and sticking with it... Now I'm thinking of bumping my limit up to around $2000 to hopefully get even a little more out of my eventual system. Would something like a Parasound HCA-3500 be a step up from the 1200ii or 1500a?

drumminman

I think you're better off getting a good 2 channel amp, like the Parasound, than a 5 channel. It'll have a much beefier power supply than a 5 channel (typically).

BigPondSmallFish

drumminman wrote: »

I think you're better off getting a good 2 channel amp, like the Parasound, than a 5 channel. It'll have a much beefier power supply than a 5 channel (typically).

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, the HCA-3500 should be a 2 channel amp, and a bit beefier than the 1200ii or 1500?

TennMan

One of the features of the 3500 is; "Independent power supplies for each channel for true dual-monaural operation ". That would lead me to believe it's not a common ground amp.

cfrizz

HCA-3500 2 Channel Amplifier:

FEATURES
•Independent power supplies for each channel for true dual-monaural operation
•Massive encapsulated 1.4 kVA toroid power transformer for each channel
•97,600 uF power supply capacitance for each channel
•Multiple polystyrene film bypass capacitors in power supply
•Direct coupled design uses no inductors or capacitors in the signal path
•DC servo direct-coupled audio circuits with 0.5 Hz rolloff
•Output transistors direct-coupled to speakers without LRC networks
•Cascode Class A input stages with matched J-FET pairs
•Hand-picked complementary MOSFET transistors in high voltage driver stage
•High-bias Class A/AB operation provides 15 Watts of pure Class A operation
•8 complementary pairs of 15 ampere 60 MHz output transistors per channel
•High-quality Neutrik XLR jacks for balanced inputs
•Two sets of gold-plated metal structure RCA input jacks for balanced operation
•Two sets of gold-plated 5-way binding posts facilitates bi-wiring
•Multiple protection circuits, temperature sensors and silver-cadmium relay protection
•Glass epoxy circuit boards, double-sided for precision
•Two hand-made audiophile-grade AC power cords-separate for each channel

SPECIFICATIONS
•Continuous Power Output - Stereo:
350 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 8 Ω, both channels driven;
500 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 4 Ω, both channels driven
•Current Capacity:
120 amperes peak per channel
•Slew Rate:
> 200 V/µsecond
•Power Bandwith:
2 Hz - 150 kHz, +0/-3 dB at 1 watt
•Total Harmonic Distortion:
<0.025% at full power; < 0.01% at typical levels
•IM Distortion:
<0.03%
•TIM:
unmeasureable Dynamic Headroom: > 1.5 dB
•lnterchannel Crosstalk:
> 95 dB at 1 kHz, > 80 dB at 20 kHz
•Input Sensitivity:
1 V for 28.28 V; 2 V for full output
•Input Impedance:
100 k Ω
•S/N Ratio:
> 120 dB, full power
•Damping Factor:
> 1000 at 20 Hz
•Power Consumption:
1200 watts
•Dimensions:
w 19" x h 7" x d 22", h 7 5/8" with feet
•Net Weight:
85 lb.

HCA-1500A 2 Channel Amplifier:

FEATURES
•Designed by John Curl
•THX certified by Lucasfilm Ltd.
•Independent power supplies for each channel
•Massive 1 kVA toroid power transformer
•60,000 µF computer-grade capacitors in power supply
•Multiple polystyrene film bypass capacitors in power supply
•DC Trigger Auto On Feature
•Cascoded Class A input stages with matched J-FET pairs
•Handpicked complementary MOSFET transistors in high voltage driver stage
•8 complementary pairs of 15 ampere 50 MHz output transistors
•Output transistors direct-coupled to speakers without LRC networks
•DC servo direct-coupled audio circuits with 0.8 Hz rolloff
•High-bias Class A/AB operation
•Gold-plated metal structure RCA input jacks
•Gold-plated looping output jacks
•Multiple temperature sensors and silver-cadmium relay protection
•Glass epoxy circuit boards, double-sided for precision
•Custom designed audiophile-grade AC power cord
•Multiple Protection Circuits

SPECIFICATIONS
•Continuous Power Output - Stereo:
205 Watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 8 Ω, both channels driven
315 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 4 Ω, both channels driven
•Continuous Power Output - Mono:
630 watts RMS, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 8 Ω
•Current Capacity:
60 amperes peak per channel
•Slew Rate:
> 130 V/µsecond
•Frequency Response:
5 Hz - 100 kHz, +0/-3 dB at 1 watt
•Total Harmonic Distortion:
< 0.03% at full power; < 0.01 % typical levels
•IM Distortion:
< 0.03 %
•TIM:
unmeasurable
•Dynamic Headroom:
> 1.5 dB
•Interchannel Crosstalk:
> 80 dB at 1 kHz; > 60 dB at 20 kHz
•Input Impedance:
33 k Ω
•Input Sensitivity:
1 V for 28.28 V, THX Reference Level; 1.2 V for full output
•S/N Ratio:
> 110 dB, input shorted, IHF A-weighted
•Damping Factor:
> 800 at 20 Hz
•Power Consumption:
500 watts
•Dimensions:
w 19" x h 5 1/4" x d 16", h 5 7/8" with feet
•Net Weight:
40 lb

I couldn't find the 1200II the lowest one they had is this.

HCA-2200II ULTRA HIGH CURRENT AMPLIFIER. Our premiere amplifier created by legendary designer John Curl has been called by Stereophile,"...a benchmark product against which other amplifiers can be measured."

FEATURES
•Two independent 1200vA toroid power transformers
•Independent transformer windings for driver stage regulators
•Higher driver rail voltages and independent regulation to prevent sag
•100,000uF computer-grade capacitors in power supply
•Multiple polystyrene bypass capacitors in power supply
•Cascode Class A input stages with matched J-FET pairs
•Hand picked Mosfets in high voltage driver stages
•24 5OMhz, 15 ampere output transistors, B-matched complements
•Output transistors direct-coupled without inductors
•DC servo direct-coupled audio circuits with 0.3Hz rolloff
•Linear tracking, instantaneous acting DC servos
•Pure Class A operation up to >6 watts output; Class AB-1 thereafter
•Balanced input circuits, XLR connectors, separately switched
•Gold-plated metal structure RCA input jacks
•Multiple temperature sensors and silver-cadmium relay protection
•FR-4 glass epoxy circuit boards, outputs double clad for high current
•Dual mono circuit topology for superior separation past 20kHz
•Proprietary quick-settling bias circuits obviates warmup period
•Silver plated audiophile-grade wiring drivers to outputs
•Precision 1% tolerance Holco and Resista metal film resistors

SPECIFICATIONS
•Continuous Power Output - Stereo
250 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 8 Ω
385 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 4 Ω
385 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 2 Ω
•Continuous Power Output - Mono
750 watts RMS, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 8 Ω
1000 watts RMS, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 4 Ω
•Current Capacity
50 amperes continuous
90 amperes peak
• Slew Rate
>135 V/µsecond
• Frequency Response
2 Hz-95 kHz, +0/-1.5 dB
• Total Harmonic Distortion
< 0.05% at full power
< 0.009% typical levels
• IM Distortion
< 0.03%
• TIM
Unmeasureable
• Dynamic Headroom
> 1.5dB
• lnterchannel Crosstalk
> 84 dB at 1 kHz
> 74 dB at 20 kHz
• Input Impedance
100K Ω/RCA-unbalanced, 200K Ω/XLR-balanced
• S/N Ratio
> 114 dB, input shorted, IHF A weighted
• Damping Factor
> 1000 at 20 Hz
• Dimensions
19" wide x 7" high x 15" deep
• Weight
60 lbs. net
• AC Power Requirements
1000 watts

BigPondSmallFish

TennMan wrote: »

One of the features of the 3500 is; "Independent power supplies for each channel for true dual-monaural operation ". That would lead me to believe it's not a common ground amp.

I'd be lying if I said that this wasn't the most confusing thread I've tried to read in a while: http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/153997/parasound-hca-3500-common-ground

dkfreebird

BigPondSmallFish wrote: »

drumminman wrote: »

I think you're better off getting a good 2 channel amp, like the Parasound, than a 5 channel. It'll have a much beefier power supply than a 5 channel (typically).

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, the HCA-3500 should be a 2 channel amp, and a bit beefier than the 1200ii or 1500?

If I'm not mistaken he was probably talking about the Theta you mentioned earlier.I have the 2b's also and I think the Parasound 1200,1500 will do just fine.If you get them for the right price you can always upgrade at a later point.It seems like some of the 3500's are common ground and some are not so maybe go with the one you know is common ground to start with.The rabbit hole has no bottom so I hope you enjoy the ride.

bryantspaint

the parasound hca 3500 is one sweet amp. theres a nice one here in classifieds

BigPondSmallFish

bryantspaint wrote: »

the parasound hca 3500 is one sweet amp. theres a nice one here in classifieds

It was one of the ones i was looking at... TBD whether the 3500 is common ground or not though.

george daniel

Hmmm,,, audible illusions. L 1. Or L 2 if you want a remote,,,Belles 350 A or reference. You should be good to go!

msg

I toiled over the HCA-3500/common ground question myself earlier this year. I did the multimeter test across the negative speaker terminals and I get continuity, which, according to the test, is supposed to indicate common ground.

I still haven't tried it yet with my SDA's, but intend to shortly, relatively confident after the research that it will be fine.

I'd be curious to hear that Peachtree Nova with your SDA's, myself. I like that idea of simple/practical; minimalist.

Schurkey

msg wrote: »

I toiled over the HCA-3500/common ground question myself earlier this year. I did the multimeter test across the negative speaker terminals and I get continuity, which, according to the test, is supposed to indicate common ground.

NO!

Continuity IS NOT ENOUGH. "Continuity" may--or may not--include some significant amount of resistance. I can tell you from experience that 20 ohms of resistance is enough to make SDA 1Bs unlistenable.

Don't test for continuity. Test for actual resistance; and the meter better show < 1 ohm. Less is better.

Another option is to read the schematic to see if the negative terminals are tied directly to each other, (true common-ground) or if they tie to each other through a pair of resistors, or if they don't tie to each other at all.

msg

The reading was 0.3 ohms, iirc. Been a while, and perhaps I'm forgetting the specifics of what I was to look for in that simple test.

I also spoke with Parasound when I was trying to figure this out. They didn't answer with a specific 'yes' to the common ground question, but instead said that the negative terminals can be strapped. I don't really know what that means with respect to this question.

I'll double-check and see if I can get a schematic to check out.

solarrdadd

howdy people, i have a pair of SDA-2's just like the OP's (except with the 2000 tweeters) and i have an amp question. i do not use the interconnect because in the apartment that i live in, i don't have the space to spread them apart as far as they really need to be for an effective use of the array nor do i have the side distance from wall clearance. i do use them in regular "stereo mode" (without the cable) and they sound amazing and i love them. i am thinking about buying a pair of mono block amps for them but just want to be sure if the "common ground" issue with amps is limited to the speakers when in use by the interconnecting cable?

i don't plan on using the cable either i've tried it, but, for me, with the speakers in limited space apart and close to the outter walls, it didn't sound good; too much reflection from the side walls. regular stereo is heaven though.

i know some folks are against not using the cable, but, for me, they just don't sound good with them so close to the side walls. with the reflections. so, blocks or no blocks in stereo only?

thanks to any and everyone who responds.

westmassguy

solarrdadd wrote: »

howdy people, i have a pair of SDA-2's just like the OP's (except with the 2000 tweeters) and i have an amp question. i do not use the interconnect because in the apartment that i live in, i don't have the space to spread them apart as far as they really need to be for an effective use of the array nor do i have the side distance from wall clearance. i do use them in regular "stereo mode" (without the cable) and they sound amazing and i love them. i am thinking about buying a pair of mono block amps for them but just want to be sure if the "common ground" issue with amps is limited to the speakers when in use by the interconnecting cable?

i don't plan on using the cable either i've tried it, but, for me, with the speakers in limited space apart and close to the outter walls, it didn't sound good; too much reflection from the side walls. regular stereo is heaven though.

i know some folks are against not using the cable, but, for me, they just don't sound good with them so close to the side walls. with the reflections. so, blocks or no blocks in stereo only?

thanks to any and everyone who responds.

Original SDA-2s? Dual Horizontal Tweeters? If so, disconnect the dimensional Tweeters, safe-off the wiring harness, re-connect the Interconnect Cable and have another listen. You may be surprised.
The Mono-Blocks will work with the IC disconnected, but are you planning on being in that apartment for the rest of your life? A couple years down the road, you get a bigger space, and you want to use the Interconnect. Those Mono-Blocks will be useless if their original SDA-2s.

Schurkey

Monoblocs are often bridged, and in that case they're useless with the older-generatation SDAs if the cable is connected.

SOME monoblocs can be made common-ground by strapping the negative terminals of the two chassis. I'm thinking--but not positive--that the Adcom GFA-565 are of this sort. I'm sure there'd be others, but the defining feature is that each of the monoblocs is not bridged.

I'm not sure I'd jump onto monobloc amplifiers if I had non-AI-1-compatible SDA speakers. There's so many suitable stereo amps that would allow the SDA cable to be used if you wanted.

solarrdadd

westmassguy wrote: »

solarrdadd wrote: »

howdy people, i have a pair of SDA-2's just like the OP's (except with the 2000 tweeters) and i have an amp question. i do not use the interconnect because in the apartment that i live in, i don't have the space to spread them apart as far as they really need to be for an effective use of the array nor do i have the side distance from wall clearance. i do use them in regular "stereo mode" (without the cable) and they sound amazing and i love them. i am thinking about buying a pair of mono block amps for them but just want to be sure if the "common ground" issue with amps is limited to the speakers when in use by the interconnecting cable?

i don't plan on using the cable either i've tried it, but, for me, with the speakers in limited space apart and close to the outter walls, it didn't sound good; too much reflection from the side walls. regular stereo is heaven though.

i know some folks are against not using the cable, but, for me, they just don't sound good with them so close to the side walls. with the reflections. so, blocks or no blocks in stereo only?

thanks to any and everyone who responds.

Original SDA-2s? Dual Horizontal Tweeters? If so, disconnect the dimensional Tweeters, safe-off the wiring harness, re-connect the Interconnect Cable and have another listen. You may be surprised.
The Mono-Blocks will work with the IC disconnected, but are you planning on being in that apartment for the rest of your life? A couple years down the road, you get a bigger space, and you want to use the Interconnect. Those Mono-Blocks will be useless if their original SDA-2s.

thanks, i've never heard of the disconnecting the array tweeter, but, i'll give that a try and get back to you. while i may or may not live in that or another apartment for the rest of my life, (cause there is nothing wrong with living in an apartment) mono blocks will never be usless, perhaps not usable with interconnected SDA-2's but never useless. i was also really just wondering about buying some blocks i saw at a great price and wanted to know about using them with my non interconnected SDA-2's having read you can't use them with the cable connected.

i'll disconnect the tweeters and re connect the cable and let you know what i think. thanks for your suggestion. also, they sound amazing as is just running as regular stereo speakers. i watch movies and even game on my 2 channel system with them and they sound amazing no matter what i'm doing.

westmassguy

I'd didn't mean to infer they were useless, I was referring to their use with your particular model 2s

solarrdadd

westmassguy wrote: »

I'd didn't mean to infer they were useless, I was referring to their use with your particular model 2s

oh i know, we're cool. i was just curious about the blocks in a stereo only mode. they are such a good price that even if i only used them for a couple of years, i will have gotten my money's worth out of them. also, the 2 channel setup i'm using is fully balanced quad differential (oppo 105 XLR out to emotiva XSP-1 XLR in) the blocks are emotiva XPA-1L and they too are fully balanced quad differential mono blocks. so i'd love to have that quality of signal path to my SDA-2'S and like i said, i'm perfectly happy with them in stereo mode no problem.

of course it was suggested that i disconnect the array tweeter in each speaker and then put the interconnect cable to it and give that a listen with the 2 channel amp i currently have, so, i am going to give that a try and see how i like it. who know's, it might blow my mind and i'll just keep it that way!

i'll keep you posted. check back in the next couple of days.

solarrdadd

westmassguy wrote: »

solarrdadd wrote: »

howdy people, i have a pair of SDA-2's just like the OP's (except with the 2000 tweeters) and i have an amp question. i do not use the interconnect because in the apartment that i live in, i don't have the space to spread them apart as far as they really need to be for an effective use of the array nor do i have the side distance from wall clearance. i do use them in regular "stereo mode" (without the cable) and they sound amazing and i love them. i am thinking about buying a pair of mono block amps for them but just want to be sure if the "common ground" issue with amps is limited to the speakers when in use by the interconnecting cable?

i don't plan on using the cable either i've tried it, but, for me, with the speakers in limited space apart and close to the outter walls, it didn't sound good; too much reflection from the side walls. regular stereo is heaven though.

i know some folks are against not using the cable, but, for me, they just don't sound good with them so close to the side walls. with the reflections. so, blocks or no blocks in stereo only?

thanks to any and everyone who responds.

Original SDA-2s? Dual Horizontal Tweeters? If so, disconnect the dimensional Tweeters, safe-off the wiring harness, re-connect the Interconnect Cable and have another listen. You may be surprised.
The Mono-Blocks will work with the IC disconnected, but are you planning on being in that apartment for the rest of your life? A couple years down the road, you get a bigger space, and you want to use the Interconnect. Those Mono-Blocks will be useless if their original SDA-2s.

well, i took your word for it and did what you suggested and i am surprised, i like it! i suspect it was the tweeters that when situated as i have the speakers, close to the side walls (because of limited space) were reflecting and detracting from my ability to enjoy them with the interconnect engaged.

it's an incredible difference with just the array tweeter disconnected. interestingly enough, with the array midrange driver engaged it's not harsh despite the fact that it's reflecting off the side wall. what it has done is created/extended my soundstage for some of the instruments being played and it's kind of a nice effect.

i can tell when that array midrange is rolling too and it sounds nice. i'm sure it will grow on me even more as i listen to it this way. i listen to a lot of jazz, some classical, and some classic rock too. it all sounds good. i listened to some jazz that i had that i knew had some nice seperation and i could hear that soundstage squeeze past those side walls to sound even larger and more pronounced for some intruments on the track.

the Rolling Stones, Paint it Black.....good lord does that sound amazing! Steely Dan, Peg, super nice. Fleetwood Mac, Rumors, Stevie Nicks working it like a second job!!!! Steely Dan SACD/DSD) Gaucho, super, super incredible! everything sounded great and had incredible seperation and presence.

thanks for the suggestion. i am going to leave it like this for a while to get used to it and once i'm totally sold, i'll put the interconnect in place and neat'n everything up since right now i just have it in front of the rack and speakers as a temporary hook up! looks like my 2 channel 200wpc @ 4ohms amp will be staying put!!!

westmassguy

Glad you're enjoying them. They'll grow on you.