B&K might be making a comeback!!!

mantis

Whats up guys?
I talked to a guy from ATI and they are planning a release of B&K products in October. Planning doesn't mean actual so I'm not holding my breath.
Now depending on what comes out, if they release a new HT preamp or AVR, I'm gonna have to get one in my hands and test it. IF they hold the same values as they did years ago I'm so in. There is probably no one on this earth who misses B&K more then me.

hochpt21

Whatever they make will sell initially based on their former reputation. But like you said... Interesting to see if they continue.

EndersShadow

Interesting..............

tonyb

Well, hope so but.......hope they take the economy into consideration. I mean, 3500 for a processor isn't going to sell like hotcakes in todays world. My old 307 was what....3k brand new, pretty stiff for a receiver these days.

Emlyn

I recall hearing something like that a few years ago when ATI purchased the rights to B&K, but nothing happened. Just checked the old B&K site and they were saying the same thing in early 2011:

http://www.bkcomp.com/faq/

If ATI is going to do it, seems best they just concentrate on building MOSFET amps under the B&K design and possibly a stereo preamp. I don't know tht ATI has any experience beyond that. They have no business building a Blu Ray player nowadays like their old plans said. Even a receiver or AV processor would be quite a stretch.

mantis

They need to build Monoblocks , Stereo , multi channel in a 5 and 7 channel amps. Then a house amp in a 12 or 16 channel 60 watt model.
Then they need a Preamp for 2 channel like before but maybe have a built in DAC USB style, that would be hot. Or even a network connection and streaming abilities built in.
Then a AVR with Atmos 11 channel model.
Preamp for HT as well with the exact preamp in the AVR. This is what B&K was famous for. If you purchased a AVR you didn't lose performance, just watts. You where at the ST level amps not Reference. You got 125 watts of pure B&K power with the AVRs and they held that true.
The Reference Stuff was better quality and had a blacker background. Very detailed and true to the signal.
If B&K wants to mess around with sources like CD players and Blu ray, then go for it but I don't expect any such things from them. Coming back after going down is beautiful and I so hope this happens.

mantis

I'd also like to see a full digital amp offering. Something on the lines of what Pioneer did but even better higher quality. How cool would that be? Lighter stronger less energy and better sound quality like B&K can do.

Dennis Gardner

I would bet anything that surfaces would simply be a cosmetic rebadge of current ATI offerings. I wouldn't hold my breath for anything actually engineered the way that B&K did. There is very little upside for a company in our throw away world to engineer high end short shelf life like BDP players or Processors.

hochpt21

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

I would bet anything that surfaces would simply be a cosmetic rebadge of current ATI offerings. I wouldn't hold my breath for anything actually engineered the way that B&K did. There is very little upside for a company in our throw away world to engineer high end short shelf life like BDP players or Processors.

I'm thinking you're probably right.

msg

mantis wrote: »

They need to build Monoblocks , Stereo , multi channel in a 5 and 7 channel amps. Then a house amp in a 12 or 16 channel 60 watt model.
Then they need a Preamp for 2 channel like before but maybe have a built in DAC USB style, that would be hot. Or even a network connection and streaming abilities built in.
Then a AVR with Atmos 11 channel model.
Preamp for HT as well with the exact preamp in the AVR. This is what B&K was famous for. If you purchased a AVR you didn't lose performance, just watts. You where at the ST level amps not Reference. You got 125 watts of pure B&K power with the AVRs and they held that true.
The Reference Stuff was better quality and had a blacker background. Very detailed and true to the signal.

so, in other words, pretty much updated versions of everything they ever built before, but without trashing the B&K magic? I laughed reading this. both out of agreement and identification with the enthusiasm

I would wonder too at the quality and whether it would be the same or better. Has anyone ever had an opportunity to hear any ATI stuff? Would the new stuff be "B&K Engineered"?

wasn't there some B&K stuff that wasn't as well regarded? somewhere between the Sonata and Reference stuff? can't remember any specifics. I just remember from talking to some people while I was shopping for amps last year that a few people said they didn't like some of the later B&K stuff as much. I don't know what the basis was for those statements.

All I know is there hasn't been a piece of their gear I've tried yet that I didn't like. granted, my experience has been somewhat limited.

RamZet

I have a B&K 200.2 amp sitting around at the office, I'm going to play around with it this week. I love my Crestron Amp but I'm setup for Savant at home.

I would also like to take this time to remember the bad stuff about B&K ( the only bad thing), and that's the noise it made when switching inputs.

Erik Tracy

I'd be wary of the pre/pro market - too much risk in DSP programming & firmware debugging and upgrades.

EndersShadow

RamZet wrote: »

I have a B&K 200.2 amp sitting around at the office, I'm going to play around with it this week. I love my Crestron Amp but I'm setup for Savant at home.

Man I wish I had a spare 200.2 lying around lol.... That's a great amp....

hochpt21

EndersShadow wrote: »

RamZet wrote: »

I have a B&K 200.2 amp sitting around at the office, I'm going to play around with it this week. I love my Crestron Amp but I'm setup for Savant at home.

Man I wish I had a spare 200.2 lying around lol.... That's a great amp....

LOL...I was thinking the same thing

Emlyn

mantis wrote: »

I'd also like to see a full digital amp offering. Something on the lines of what Pioneer did but even better higher quality. How cool would that be? Lighter stronger less energy and better sound quality like B&K can do.

This has me intrigued now. Theta Digital is a division of ATI, and they have been doing lots of innovative stuff lately, including producing high end Class D amps. ATI also makes their own amps and manufactures the amps for Crestron and others. Seems they may be growing.

smglbrth

Erik Tracy wrote: »

I'd be wary of the pre/pro market - too much risk in DSP programming & firmware debugging and upgrades.

They possibly learned that from the release of the Reference 70 from what I read in the past. From what I understand the 70 wasn't really well received but could be a number of reasons, which Mantis would know all about.

I would really like to see B&K make a come back. However, I tend to agree with some above statements. They have to keep prices in-line with most stuff now-a-days or it'll bomb. Depending on who makes it (I'm assuming ATI) they should probably stick with amps/preamps for now and see how it goes. I doubt we'll see the old innards of yesteryear and if it's just a rebadged ATI I don't think persons will think too much about it.

From a marketing standpoint it could be sticky, as ATI dealers are few and far between....

mantis

RamZet wrote: »

I have a B&K 200.2 amp sitting around at the office, I'm going to play around with it this week. I love my Crestron Amp but I'm setup for Savant at home.

I would also like to take this time to remember the bad stuff about B&K ( the only bad thing), and that's the noise it made when switching inputs.

I've done a few Savant Jobs and I like it and in many ways I don't. Honestly I'm not a huge control guy. I have Control 4, Lutron , Total Control and CCP Universal Remote at home and I really don't care about it at all. I much prefer a good sounding system over control.
As far as the bad thing about B&K , that was the lack of a soft muting circuit. They felt by using a soft muting circuit like most other brands do, sound quality suffers.
I had some customers that where annoyed by this but wouldn't change brands due to it.

mantis

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

I would bet anything that surfaces would simply be a cosmetic rebadge of current ATI offerings. I wouldn't hold my breath for anything actually engineered the way that B&K did. There is very little upside for a company in our throw away world to engineer high end short shelf life like BDP players or Processors.

The Difference with B&K in the past with Processors vs others is they offered upgrades. You where able to move up to the next offering with you sending in your preamp or AVR and they would upgrade it for a fee. This was really cool and forward thinking.
I would not be happy if B&K comes back with only amp offerings, that would suck ****. I want a AVR or Preamp as well.

mantis

smglbrth wrote: »

Erik Tracy wrote: »

I'd be wary of the pre/pro market - too much risk in DSP programming & firmware debugging and upgrades.

They possibly learned that from the release of the Reference 70 from what I read in the past. From what I understand the 70 wasn't really well received but could be a number of reasons, which Mantis would know all about.

I would really like to see B&K make a come back. However, I tend to agree with some above statements. They have to keep prices in-line with most stuff now-a-days or it'll bomb. Depending on who makes it (I'm assuming ATI) they should probably stick with amps/preamps for now and see how it goes. I doubt we'll see the old innards of yesteryear and if it's just a rebadged ATI I don't think persons will think too much about it.

From a marketing standpoint it could be sticky, as ATI dealers are few and far between....

The Ref 70 was a strange preamp and when it was released , they really fell short in a few areas.
They still only offered Notch Filters like the previous models. No room correction mic. This hurt sales as room correction was getting big at this time. B&K said you don't need room correction and the notch filters do a better job anyway. As much as I agreed with them I still felt they needed to offer more control over filtering.
They where missing out on the HDMI versions and processor updates. This is what really killed them. This is what I feel killed the entire company.
Also the way you did component video was very stupid. The way you have to share inputs and assign setups where dumb. The First one I setup I was like what the hell happened here?
Sound quality never suffered on the Ref70 , it sounded amazing. It still held true to the B&K sound.

tonyb

I never found that clicking between inputs annoying. It wasn't loud enough to be, and really was more of a confirmation you hit the button. Didn't find it an issue at all.

Might agree with Dennis though, might just be re-badged ATI stuff. I know where Dan is coming from too, we all wanted to hear what a B&k piece would sound like with todays HDMI, newer codes and dacs.

Tell ya what though, as much as I loved their gear, I'd never spend 3g's on a receiver again.....from any brand. Too bad the dudes from California Audio Labs and B&k couldn't get together, imagine the gear those 2 would put out.

mantis

That would probably be a pretty dreamy merger.

EndersShadow

And in other news, someone just dropped 4 200.5 on eBay.... All silver and being sold by a former B&K employee

hochpt21

EndersShadow wrote: »

And in other news, someone just dropped 4 200.5 on eBay.... All silver and being sold by a former B&K employee

They are 200.2's and WOW! From the chief engineer.

If I was in the market these are a great deal!

EndersShadow

hochpt21 wrote: »

EndersShadow wrote: »

And in other news, someone just dropped 4 200.5 on eBay.... All silver and being sold by a former B&K employee

They are 200.2's and WOW! From the chief engineer.

If I was in the market these are a great deal!

Autocorrect in action lol...

I'd love to snatch up one or two of those in case I ever go 7.1 or for my stereo setup lol...

Emlyn

Good pricing on those on Ebay. The seller is now the lead engineer at Jade Designs, aka Emotiva. I wonder if he is using something different now.

RamZet

Took that 200.2 back home to play around with it, matched it with a B&K Reference5 S2 Pre-Amp.

So far I dont like the amp on my speakers (B&W CM9). I have heard them on my friends setup (B&W CM8) and they sound alright.

What I dont like are the highs, the lows are awesome and hit when you want them to hit and roll when they should roll if that makes sense. On my speakers the highs sound harsh and distorted. I thought maybe it was the Pre-Amp so I did a A/B test with my Rotel RC-1550, same problem.

Stinks b/c I know its an alright amp, just not with my CM9s. Im going to play around with that Reference 5 some more. I have a Reference 30 hanging around too but its more of a surround sound pre so I may not jump on it right away. I'm sure it sound like my old B&K AVR-305 ( something I retired for a Marantz).

jeremymarcinko

Just a rebadged ATI...that's funny, cause that wouldn't be a bad thing. ATI builds amps that would certainly hold their own against the B&K's of old. Just sayin, The AT3002 is essentially the $9,000 Mark Levinson No. 532H amp, but can be purchased for under $2500. My lowly ATI 1202 is only 120wpc but absolutely handles my RTI'12's with authority. I have grown to love my AT120 as it has proven to be a bulletproof amp that sounds effing great. ATI isn't trying to become a popular house brand, that is not their game. They are in the business of designing and manufacturing amps for other prestigious brands, and they do it very well. Being that High-end audio is a niche market, I can certainly understand how being a manufacturer for others is much more profitable than trying to market another competitive product.
http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers/ati-at3002-two-channel-x-300-watt-amplifier-b-stock-120-v.html

tonyb

ATI may make amps for other brands, but they most likely are not one in the same. If your Classe, you spec out an amp to be built by an outsourced company, you don't just slap a badge on the front and call it a day....though I'd imagine some do actually do that.

Just like Chrysler making Mercedes, if you think your getting an E350 by buying a Chrysler 200, you'd be sadly mistaken.

RamZet

That B&K Reference 5 S2 is no joke, it just replaced my Rotel RC-1550 (for now).
I really like that it has Full range out, high pass out and sub (mono) out.
The HP is connected to the amp channels handling the HP and the full range is connected to the amp channels handling the LP in the speakers. No Sub, CM9s don't need it.
The built in EQ isn't to bad, just basic bass and treble settings. The loudness button is silly in my opinion and adds to much bass.
Unit runs real cold and sounds awesome, not going to paint a picture with words.
I want to revisit the reference 30 this week (have one laying around). Im hoping to get an improved sound with my Sonos and CD source with that on board DAC(S). The ADC and DAC being the AsahiKasei AK5383 and AK4393.
I'm going to have to recommend this thing to people looking for used gear, they can be had for a great price over on Ebay.

tonyb

RamZet wrote: »

I'm going to have to recommend this thing to people looking for used gear, they can be had for a great price over on Ebay.

....and you should. I've been for a long time now. These older higher end processors make great 2 channel pre's with more inputs and outputs than you can shake a stick at. Their internal dacs are usually of higher quality too which is another bonus.

msg

RamZet wrote: »

Took that 200.2 back home to play around with it, matched it with a B&K Reference5 S2 Pre-Amp.

So far I dont like the amp on my speakers (B&W CM9). I have heard them on my friends setup (B&W CM8) and they sound alright.

What I dont like are the highs, the lows are awesome and hit when you want them to hit and roll when they should roll if that makes sense. On my speakers the highs sound harsh and distorted. I thought maybe it was the Pre-Amp so I did a A/B test with my Rotel RC-1550, same problem.

Stinks b/c I know its an alright amp, just not with my CM9s. Im going to play around with that Reference 5 some more. I have a Reference 30 hanging around too but its more of a surround sound pre so I may not jump on it right away. I'm sure it sound like my old B&K AVR-305 ( something I retired for a Marantz).

which rack is that you're using?
do you have other speakers you could try? that Ref 5 S2 and the 200.2 should be a fantastic combo with some smooth speakers. I've used it to "man, I can't believe how good this sounds" success with Monitor 10's and to a slightly lesser degree, some fresh 703's.

RamZet wrote: »

That B&K Reference 5 S2 is no joke, it just replaced my Rotel RC-1550 (for now).
I really like that it has Full range out, high pass out and sub (mono) out.
The HP is connected to the amp channels handling the HP and the full range is connected to the amp channels handling the LP in the speakers. No Sub, CM9s don't need it.
The built in EQ isn't to bad, just basic bass and treble settings. The loudness button is silly in my opinion and adds to much bass.
Unit runs real cold and sounds awesome, not going to paint a picture with words.
I want to revisit the reference 30 this week (have one laying around). Im hoping to get an improved sound with my Sonos and CD source with that on board DAC(S). The ADC and DAC being the AsahiKasei AK5383 and AK4393.
I'm going to have to recommend this thing to people looking for used gear, they can be had for a great price over on Ebay.

indeed. I've had positive experiences with the AVR 507 S2, Ref 5 S2, and briefly so far with the Ref 50 S2 on an older EX-442 amp - all enjoyable. agreed, the Loudness function adds WAY too much. would have been nice to have maybe 3 different levels of it, or a way to control its impact through the programming software. I find I can run most anything through them with flat tone controls. a year or so ago you wouldn't have heard me saying such things. with the AVR 507 S2, however, I find I do still prefer to bump the bass 1.5 to 2.

can't remember at the moment the major differences between the S1 and S2 versions of the gear aside from faceplate design and some menu operation items (my previous research was limited to the AVR 507 at the time), but I think they're supposed to be close enough sound wise that either would make a nice addition for anyone in the market. The Ref 5 is definitely one of my favorite pieces, though. so beautifully simple.