Looking for input on the RTi Series

Inspector 24

Nightfall

So RTiA is reference theater improved again?

ZLTFUL

This is my public apology to Kevin. He wasn't arguing. He was honestly curious.
I apologize for jumping down your throat. I had no reason or cause to do so.

ZLTFUL

Nightfall wrote: »

So RTiA is reference theater improved again?

Speculation was that the A stood for "Advance(d)".

It all came from speculation, not fact as I stated in my post. And was derived from previous nomenclature...
RTA = Real Time Array
SDA = Stereo Dimensional Array
SRS= Signature Reference Series
SRT= Signature Reference Theater
RT (Speculated)= Reference Theater
RTi(Speculated)= Reference Theater Improved
RTiA(Speculated)= Reference Theater Improved Advance(d)

LS, LSi and LSiM were never really dissected for nomenclature meanings. Could come up with some but I have derailed this discussion too much as is.

vmaxer

ZLTFUL wrote: »

This is my public apology to Kevin. He wasn't arguing. He was honestly curious.
I apologize for jumping down your throat. I had no reason or cause to do so.

Wow, a awesome man of integrity.

gp4jesus

I'm part of the "kinda bright" crowd.

Lose the silver rings & what ever around the tweeters.

Mostly theatre

1Locoweed wrote: »

Pretty straight forward. The tweeter fits in the hole without any modification, drill small pilot holes for screws.

What model? 'A3/5/7s? Thanks

1Locoweed

I have done this to the A7's, the CSI A6 & the RTI A1's I use as front wides.

vcwatkins

What do you like about the RTis.?
RTi12: HT performance, bass punch, narrow width
RTiA9: same + styling, curves, lovely cherry veneer (even though I bt black)

What do you not like about the RTis?
Both: Overly bright for music
RTi12: Bright for music, silver bezel & trim

What technology, hardware, etc.. do you wish the RTi series included but doesn’t?
Tweeter contour, better binding posts, magnetic grille

If you could have a custom color way made for you, what would it be?
Blonde/maple, leather (not sure why this isn't used more?)

Is there another brand or product you would buy instead of the RTi?
Possibly, but it's hard to beat the value. Would love a full LSiM HT system. But, again, the RTi/A's seem to be aimed at high perf/$, and that's what I tend to go for in HT.

If you own the RTis what do you use them for: Music, Movies, Games?
RTi12: 95% home theater, 5% music (occasional tunes in bedroom while dressing)
RTiA9: 100% HT

deronb1

I would like to see them sealed. For HT most use a sub anyway and for 2 ch, a sealed speaker with passive(s) would be great. Figure out something between the current tweet and the ring. Not too caught up in aesthetics, but WAF is a definite reality.

gp4jesus

1Locoweed wrote: »

I have done this to the A7's, the CSI A6 & the RTI A1's I use as front wides.

I'm using A1s for surrounds but regardless if I'm not satisfied after tri-amping my LCR & bi-amping the A1s, I'll follow your lead on this

F1nut

savage925 wrote: »

I wanted to clarify that this discussion is intended for the RTiA line only as the RTi series are long out of production. I forgot to add the "A" in my original post.

Fixed it for you.

I'm really surprised anyone thought you wanted feedback on the RTi's.

F1nut

1Locoweed wrote: »

I have done this to the A7's, the CSI A6 & the RTI A1's I use as front wides.

Without knowing the parameters of the original tweeter how did you arrive at the conclusion that your subsitute is even close to being correct?

tonyb

Erik Tracy wrote: »

So far it 'sounds' like folks here want an LSi/M speaker - that already exists, right?

Yep....but not at the same price point as the RTI's. A poor mans LSIM is whats being asked.

You can only do so much at a given price point, though I think simple crossover part changes may help with the brightness or changing the tweeter. Those are changes that won't greatly affect the cost and keep the RTI's in their place within the Polk line-up.

comfortablycurt

I don't think people are necessarily saying that they want the LSiM703. The 703 is at a very different price point than something like the RTiA3. They're built for different purposes though. The RTiA's aren't necessarily 'entry level,' but they aren't top of the line either. You get what you pay for. The LSi's are a much better, and also more expensive option. The RTiA's could be made much more musical without considerably increasing the costs though. As previously mentioned, some crossover changes or some modifications to the tweeter could really tame the brightness down without significantly changing the costs.

1Locoweed

1Locoweed wrote: »
I have done this to the A7's, the CSI A6 & the RTI A1's I use as front wides.


Without knowing the parameters of the original tweeter how did you arrive at the conclusion that your subsitute is even close to being correct?

Impedance & sensitivity matches the speaker spec.

ZLTFUL

1Locoweed wrote: »

Impedance & sensitivity matches the speaker spec.

The problem with this is the speaker impedance and sensitivity are summed values taking all drivers and the crossover into account.
As long as it sounds good to you, none of this matters though.

Erik Tracy

kevintomb wrote: »

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I don't think people are necessarily saying that they want the LSiM703. The 703 is at a very different price point than something like the RTiA3. They're built for different purposes though. The RTiA's aren't necessarily 'entry level,' but they aren't top of the line either. You get what you pay for. The LSi's are a much better, and also more expensive option. The RTiA's could be made much more musical without considerably increasing the costs though. As previously mentioned, some crossover changes or some modifications to the tweeter could really tame the brightness down without significantly changing the costs.

That has been my only issue with them, the highs between about 8-12 khz are simply about 3db or so too strong.

The midrange is very smooth and nice sounding for the price range, and the bass seems to be about right given the size and price also.

What I really liked about the RTiA3s were their low level dynamics and clarity.

Which is where I do most of my listening.

The LSi7s I had just did not have the clarity in my setup - they needed some volume 'prodding' before they 'woke up'. But then, it was too loud for the rest of the household.

With good recordings the RTiA3 just sounded more spacious and I could move in and out of layered music and hear the detail, whereas the LSi7s were too 'sleepy' up top ...for me.

Push the RTiA3s and that is where their weakness pops in - soundstage collapses, and overall sound is compressed and, yes, I'll admit - fatiguing.

Keep the RTiA3s in their 'zone' - and I'll take them over the LSi7s...well, actually, I did.

cfrizz

Erik Tracy wrote: »

kevintomb wrote: »

comfortablycurt wrote: »

The LSi7s I had just did not have the clarity in my setup - they needed some volume 'prodding' before they 'woke up'. But then, it was too loud for the rest of the household..

If you had an separate amp on them they would have woken right up and given you the clarity that you wanted.

The LSI7s on a receiver just won't get it done because you have to really turn up the volume which just puts too much strain on it. I gave my Parasound 1500A to my brother and his LSI7s sound terrific and the amp stays cool as a cucumber.

Erik Tracy

Um...I did have an external amp driving the LSi7s with gobs of power - way beyond the Cfrizz 200/channel recommendation(450w into 4-ohms/channel).

The LSi7's did not have the low to mid level dynamics like the RTiA3s.

Gotta wonder if folks here have actually done a side by side like I did.

F1nut

1Locoweed wrote: »

Impedance & sensitivity matches the speaker spec.

Those specs are for the entire speaker and therefore cannot be used to replace the tweeter.

F1nut

Oops, I didn't see that ZLTFUL already addressed the issue. I would strongly discourage anyone else from going about a willy-nilly replacement like that.

vcwatkins

F1nut wrote: »

2. The treble is too hot. I fixed that with a crossover upgrade and got rid of the bypass caps. Also, the silver driver trim....ugh!

Apologies for going off topic for a question. The bypass caps: Are they readily identifiable? Unique value or ID from relative position? And is there a brand of cap that fits the existing space and is an upgrade that anyone would recommend?

Thanks for any help,
Craig

F1nut

Yes, the bypass caps are small in size and value. In the A7's they are marked .47uF.

And is there a brand of cap that fits the existing space and is an upgrade that anyone would recommend?

The stock boards are tiny, there's no room for a film/foil cap. You'd have to make custom crossovers like I did or have someone build them for you.

vcwatkins

F1nut wrote: »

Yes, the bypass caps are small in size and value. In the A7's they are marked .47uF.

And is there a brand of cap that fits the existing space and is an upgrade that anyone would recommend?

The stock boards are tiny, there's no room for a film/foil cap. You'd have to make custom crossovers like I did or have someone build them for you.

Gotcha, thanks. I had not taken the xo's out but from the looks of Trey's recent pics, I figured it might be tight.

F1nut

vcwatkins wrote: »

Gotcha, thanks. I had not taken the xo's out but from the looks of Trey's recent pics, I figured it might be tight.

Trey could certainly build a set of crossovers for you. I know he likes to use bypass caps, but you could request that he not.

F1nut

xcapri79 wrote: »

The others have said, please tame the tweeter by 3dB and that should do it for music, however many like the hot tweeter for home theater. So perhaps a simple Theater/Music switch at the back of the speaker with a modified crossover would make almost everyone happy, then fine.

That's an excellent idea.

gp4jesus

+10K on the theatre/music switch concept. How to execute that, well...

Inspector 24

I actually sat down and read this thread.

Someone called it earlier...it appears what is wanted is an LSiM but for the price of the RTiA.

First thing I can think of is the TSx Series, which I was horribly unimpressed with. It seemed they tried to make an RTiA series for the price of the Monitor series...I don't think it worked. Don't do this with the RTiA. Change the cosmetics a tad, give people the option of darker rings (though if they really hate them, remove them, paint them, problem solved) Maybe a tweak to the tweeter or crossover to tame them a tad for music, but don't re-invent this wheel.

Or make a new series entirely. Take the upper half of the LSi15, throw it on the lower half of the RTiA9. You get all the awesome slam, quickness, and tightness of the lower end from the A9, with the smoothness, and musicality of the 15's. Call it the RTiM.

Or, as I said earlier, jsut adapt the ring radiator tweet to the RTi.

Either way, keep it true to the RTiA's roots.

Chops

• What do you like about the RTis.?
  
  I have the RTi12's. They do a really good job with both music and movies, at least in my system. I like the large, tall, deep enclosures, then again, I've always had a thing for large speakers.
  
  
  
• What do you not like about the RTis?
  
  All of the silver plastic crap. On the 12's, the entire front baffle is nothing but plastic and it makes it look cheap. At least on the A9's, most of it was removed but still have it as the trim rings and the front port. Even the outriggers on the 12's are plastic. Get rid of the plastic! I'm not too fond of the light silver cone color either.
  
  
  
• What technology, hardware, etc.. do you wish the RTi series included but doesn’t?
  
  Use beefy (a.k.a.- thick) aluminum outriggers with cone feet that actually have some adjustment to them. Nice WBT binding posts and aluminum plates. With the crossovers, at least remove any iron core inductors and electrolytic capacitors out of the midrange and tweeter sections, and use a larger, better quality iron core inductor in the woofer section. Use slightly thicker MDF for the enclosures. If you must use trim rings for the drivers, make them matte black, and the cone material a darker (muted) gray or even black. Upgrade the tweeter to a nice little ring ribbon design. Lastly, have the grills mount with magnets.
  
  
  
• If you could have a custom color made for you, what would it be?
  
  Nothing special here. The 12's cherry is nice. A light maple would work also, or maybe even a red-ish zebra wood.
  
  
  
• Is there another brand or product you would buy instead of the RTi?
  
  Of course there's others... Triangle, Monitor Audio, Paradigm, KEF, Energy, Martin Logan, Magnepan, Jamo, just to name a few.
  
  
  
• If you own the RTis what do you use them for: Music, Movies, Games?
  
  85% music, 15% movies
  

And I'm sorry, but people who say the RTi line is good for movies, but not music, I don't agree. It's all about system synergy. A speaker that only does good with movies is IMHO a poorly designed speaker. A properly designed speaker should be able to do both music and movies well.

And since everyone says the RTi line is bright, why on earth would you prefer them for movies? Every time there's an explosion or crash or something, those "bright" speakers would blast holes right through your ears.

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

gp4jesus

what are WBT binding posts?