Breaking in speakers...Myth or valid?

vickievinyl

I actually just got a new pair of RTi A1's last week. After playing them a bit over the week and a lot more this past weekend, I have to say that their sound improved noticeably. I wasn't "over the moon" when I first heard them but now they sound really open and detailed. I don't hear an over emphasis of any particular frequency range, some have said that they are a bit bright. Well maybe I have lost some of my high end hearing but they sound very even to me!

tonyb

polkfarmboy wrote: »

I like my speakers like my woman, great to look at, not too bright and easy on my ears.

Obviously your wife likes her men the same way.

Seriously dude.....think before you type.

OldSchoolPolk

I only have two examples of break in that I can personally reference.

The first was literally pulling a pair of Polk RTA 12s out of the dump and setting them up at home. My jaw dropped they sounded so good. I don't know how many hundreds of hours they had on them but as i listened over a few weeks they seemed to sound even better, until one of the Peerless died.

The 2nd was buying the DefTech SM55s new. Out of the box and in my stereo rig I was surprised how lifeless and dull they were, even after 3-4 days. Placed them in the HT system and after a few weeks I put them back in the stereo rig and really enjoyed them. They definitely opened up and became quite enjoyable. They still have a warm sound but are really engaging.

westmassguy

I re-cone, re-foam, and re-edge speakers for a living among other things. Mechanical break-in is a fact, not fiction. Treated cloth surrounds used on a lot of pro gear, and spiders used on all woofers need a break-in period. Rubber and foam surrounds less so, but still benefit from it. When asked I always tell my customers to think of their drivers as a new pair of leather sole shoes. When you first put them on, they're very stiff. The more you wear them, the more relaxed the leather becomes. The same principals apply to the moving parts of a driver. Some more than others.
Electronics are more subjective, but burn-in does occur. I've witnessed it myself with my own equipment. Electrolytics, are the most obvious, followed by film caps. I'm still wrapping my head around cable burn-in, but trust the senior members here, who have actually published their findings, and forgot what I know about cables in general.

polkfarmboy

Some people have mr potato heads with dirt in their ears or just dont pay attention to music. The actual break in part of a speaker is the softening up of the drivers expanding the bass response, thats the most obvious diff that one can easily pick up in all listening like HT as well as 2ch.

westmassguy

kevintomb wrote: »

@westmassguy, I think we all agree burn in and break in occur to "Some degree", but the thing that seems a huge variable to me and from reading comments from others, some seem to Never have their perception change from day one, and others seem to have it change immensely from day one.

I do not see an extremely valid way of discerning what part is "Actual break in" versus what part is simply the "Human part" of the equation.

Everything can be subjective. I personally can tell with certain woofers, just by feel, once they've broken in. Others would require actual measurements. That's through experience.
Whether one can hear a difference or not I think is due to the differences in the way each of us perceive things. Couple that with the degree to which you're interested in the hobby, and you go from one extreme to the other.
To me that's what makes this particular hobby interesting.
Some can hear the most minute detail, while others cannot. Each according to his or her gifts.

F1nut

Whether one can hear a difference or not I think is due to the differences in the way each of us perceive things. Couple that with the degree to which you're interested in the hobby, and you go from one extreme to the other.
To me that's what makes this particular hobby interesting.
Some can hear the most minute detail, while others cannot.

Well stated and I agree. I just wish those that can't hear differences would stop telling me what I can hear isn't so.

westmassguy

F1nut wrote: »

Whether one can hear a difference or not I think is due to the differences in the way each of us perceive things. Couple that with the degree to which you're interested in the hobby, and you go from one extreme to the other.
To me that's what makes this particular hobby interesting.
Some can hear the most minute detail, while others cannot.

Well stated and I agree. I just wish those that can't hear differences would stop telling me what I can hear isn't so.

Jesse, I'm quite sure, that in your own quiet, reserved way, you'll tell them what for....
Everyone hears differently, ask any Audiologist. Some are more sensitive at certain frequencies than others. Some of us are just plain tone deaf, or have limited hearing. I can't hear above 14KHz in one ear, and 12KHz in the other. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy my 2ATLs, and those sweet burned-in Sonicaps and broken-in 198s

westmassguy

"kevintomb wrote: »

Everyone from one extreme to the other thinks that what they "Think" they hear, is some given truth and applies to all.

It does not.

Painting with a very wide brush.
What I hear is what I hear. Someone sitting next to me may hear more detail, more depth etc., but that doesn't mean what I'm hearing is wrong, or vise versa, it's simply different. I would never dream of telling someone what they can or can't hear, that's the height of arrogance. As I said before, each according to his or her gifts. If you can discern minute details that other can't, god bless you. Just enjoy the music, I certainly do.

BlueFox

kevintomb wrote: »

DSkip wrote: »

It's a general statement. When someone can't hear differences in cables, they tell others they just don't matter. What should be said is that the person didn't hear a difference when changing cables. I've admitted that I can't hear a difference in power cables on my monoblocks and I state it as such. I don't tell people you can't hear a difference, just that I didnt.

But there are people who "hear differences", when they are simply told something is changed, and it really is not changed.

That is why it is not black and white~

Please give it a break. That pseudo-psychological babble has been regurgitated more than once in the past. For some reason, it always comes from those who think they know everything, and feel their mission in life is to convert those who have actual experience in the subject.

txcoastal1

People who are critical listeners also have 5-10 well recorded reference that tracks they have ran through gear hundreds or even a thousand times, at gatherings, audio shows, retail etc and we can pick up even the slightest change of details in the song. Some make you smile, cringe or just say ehhh.

F1nut

What we hear is not a constant or a given. It varies hugely with almost all humans based on mood, emotion, expectation, bias, lack of sleep, hunger and dozens of other variable.

I cannot agree with that. What I can agree with is what I want to hear such as a certain artist is not constant or a given depending on the factors you listed. However, the song remains the same regardless.

tonyb

kevintomb wrote: »

westmassguy wrote: »

"kevintomb wrote: »

Everyone from one extreme to the other thinks that what they "Think" they hear, is some given truth and applies to all.

It does not.

Painting with a very wide brush.
What I hear is what I hear. Someone sitting next to me may hear more detail, more depth etc., but that doesn't mean what I'm hearing is wrong, or vise versa, it's simply different. I would never dream of telling someone what they can or can't hear, that's the height of arrogance. As I said before, each according to his or her gifts. If you can discern minute details that other can't, god bless you. Just enjoy the music, I certainly do.

Humans can be tricked extremely easily.

What we hear is not a constant or a given. It varies hugely with almost all humans based on mood, emotion, expectation, bias, lack of sleep, hunger and dozens of other variable.

TO me it is what we "Think" we hear.

Audio is the hobby of disagreement, you should know that by now...LOL

But good post!

I wouldn't say audio is a hobby of disagreement. More so a hobby of "shared experiences" and opinion. It doesn't matter if we "think" we hear something others can't, doesn't change your reality one bit.

I will agree though that humans can be tricked fairly easily though. Proof of that is sitting in the White house. lol

mrloren

tonyb wrote: »

kevintomb wrote: »

westmassguy wrote: »

"kevintomb wrote: »

Everyone from one extreme to the other thinks that what they "Think" they hear, is some given truth and applies to all.

It does not.

Painting with a very wide brush.
What I hear is what I hear. Someone sitting next to me may hear more detail, more depth etc., but that doesn't mean what I'm hearing is wrong, or vise versa, it's simply different. I would never dream of telling someone what they can or can't hear, that's the height of arrogance. As I said before, each according to his or her gifts. If you can discern minute details that other can't, god bless you. Just enjoy the music, I certainly do.

Humans can be tricked extremely easily.

What we hear is not a constant or a given. It varies hugely with almost all humans based on mood, emotion, expectation, bias, lack of sleep, hunger and dozens of other variable.

TO me it is what we "Think" we hear.

Audio is the hobby of disagreement, you should know that by now...LOL

But good post!

I wouldn't say audio is a hobby of disagreement. More so a hobby of "shared experiences" and opinion. It doesn't matter if we "think" we hear something others can't, doesn't change your reality one bit.

I will agree though that humans can be tricked fairly easily though. Proof of that is sitting in the White house. lol

100% correct on that, Also look at how many people buy Bose stuff. I get so upset whenever I see someone drop a couple grand on a Bose system and think it sounds good.

OldSchoolPolk

I can't tell anyone what they can or cannot hear.

I remain a sceptic on some of the cable/interconnect debates. I'm not saying they don't make a difference, it's just that they have to balance to the cost of the rest of the system and efforts put into room treatments. I imagine cable ROI is less than most other links in the chain, but I don't KNOW having never had high dollar cables (or amps, DACs for that matter.)

Having said that I have never heard ANY recorded system match real life which I think most would agree with. But to me the gap is surprisingly great. That gap was clear last night.

I heard a lone French horn from my neighbors house. Duke had just won and they were celebrating with an impromptu concert. Their daughter is an accomplished player and her goal is to play professionally. I KNEW it was live and it sounded incredible even though I was 40 feet away. The dynamic range, wonderful tones, etc., and I don't even typically have like/dislike for the French horn. But it sounded great! I leaned over my porch and sure enough she was on their screened deck playing her heart out with her parents in the audience. I listened for a minute surprised how powerful it was.

The best system I've ever heard was fronted by Wilson speakers in a acoustically treated room. Though I can't recall the model; they were about 5' tall. Yep, they sounded good but they didn't grab me the way the French horn did last night.

comfortablycurt

I've experienced break-in with my own speakers in the past. Speakers are mechanical devices with moving parts. Just about any mechanical device has some type of break-in period where the parts settle into place. A lot of people claim that there is a similar break in period for things like power amps and preamps, but I can't say I've ever experienced this myself. I've never bought new power amps or preamps though, so I suppose I've never had the opportunity. From a purely scientific standpoint, it doesn't make sense that it would take weeks for an electrical circuit through an amplifier to 'break in'. Through a speaker, it makes sense to at least a certain degree.

WLDock

OldSchoolPolk wrote: »

I can't tell anyone what they can or cannot hear.

I remain a sceptic on some of the cable/interconnect debates. I'm not saying they don't make a difference, it's just that they have to balance to the cost of the rest of the system and efforts put into room treatments. I imagine cable ROI is less than most other links in the chain, but I don't KNOW having never had high dollar cables (or amps, DACs for that matter.)

Having said that I have never heard ANY recorded system match real life which I think most would agree with. But to me the gap is surprisingly great. That gap was clear last night.

I heard a lone French horn from my neighbors house. Duke had just won and they were celebrating with an impromptu concert. Their daughter is an accomplished player and her goal is to play professionally. I KNEW it was live and it sounded incredible even though I was 40 feet away. The dynamic range, wonderful tones, etc., and I don't even typically have like/dislike for the French horn. But it sounded great! I leaned over my porch and sure enough she was on their screened deck playing her heart out with her parents in the audience. I listened for a minute surprised how powerful it was.

The best system I've ever heard was fronted by Wilson speakers in a acoustically treated room. Though I can't recall the model; they were about 5' tall. Yep, they sounded good but they didn't grab me the way the French horn did last night.

I feel the same way having played all types of music in more venues than I can remember. You really develop an ear for sound and the changes a venue can make on that sound. When all things are in alignment live music is what we are all chasing. I've had some concerts in amazing places that made the same piece of music come alive in a way that it did not in the many other venues it was played in.
I discovered the critical ear for music years before I ever stepped foot into a high end audio store. The stuff that I heard that sounded really good was prices well beyond what I could afford so I stayed away for years. The quest continues and something used and affordable that sounds good will finally make its way in front of my couch. Its been a long time coming...

Still money is well spent on live music!