Back to Square One
I'll make a long story short. Out around $6500 since September due to car repairs and lost wages. My disposable income for the year is shot. Killed any chances I had at upgrading my existing speakers to something pretty darn good. At this point I am still going to need new speakers to use in my house but have a very limited budget. Need some ideas.
First, the house is small. Will need either a sealed enclosure or front firing port. Both existing pairs of speakers that I own are rear firing ports and need to be way off the back wall to work properly. Since space is at a premium I am ruling out both pairs at this time or anything similar.
The room I will use the speakers in is 14 by 12 with a 9 foot high ceiling. Walls are plaster but I have added some heavy drapes and can use some acoustic panels on the walls to further deaden the room.
Budget is $200 to perhaps $300 for speakers. Using both a Qinpu A3 amp (8.5 wpc) hybrid tube/solid state unit and a Dayton DT 120 which is 50 wpc into 8 ohms.
Was thinking either the RTIA 1 or 3 would be best at this point. Currently on sale and in my price range. The other idea I had was to buy something like the Blackstone line speakers for wall mounting and then buy a sub woofer and wire them into that. Don't want towers at this point and prefer a bookshelf speaker or wall mount.
Prefer a neutral sounding speaker. My current Mirage OM 10 towers are fine in this respect and the Jamo C 601 bookshelf speakers are roughly the same with a slightly forward or warm sounding midrange. So anything similar to these speakers (RTIA 1 or 3 seem to be close) should work.
Any suggestions?
First, the house is small. Will need either a sealed enclosure or front firing port. Both existing pairs of speakers that I own are rear firing ports and need to be way off the back wall to work properly. Since space is at a premium I am ruling out both pairs at this time or anything similar.
The room I will use the speakers in is 14 by 12 with a 9 foot high ceiling. Walls are plaster but I have added some heavy drapes and can use some acoustic panels on the walls to further deaden the room.
Budget is $200 to perhaps $300 for speakers. Using both a Qinpu A3 amp (8.5 wpc) hybrid tube/solid state unit and a Dayton DT 120 which is 50 wpc into 8 ohms.
Was thinking either the RTIA 1 or 3 would be best at this point. Currently on sale and in my price range. The other idea I had was to buy something like the Blackstone line speakers for wall mounting and then buy a sub woofer and wire them into that. Don't want towers at this point and prefer a bookshelf speaker or wall mount.
Prefer a neutral sounding speaker. My current Mirage OM 10 towers are fine in this respect and the Jamo C 601 bookshelf speakers are roughly the same with a slightly forward or warm sounding midrange. So anything similar to these speakers (RTIA 1 or 3 seem to be close) should work.
Any suggestions?
Comments
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I think going from what you have to the a1 or a3 would be pretty much a latteral move.
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Good point. The power port does add flexibility.
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Thanks for the added notes on the Power Port. I have read reviews stating that you can put this speaker up against the wall with negligible impact on the bass. The sound stage may be reduced a bit but that seems to be the biggest negative. I could probably put them a few inches off the back wall and not have to worry about them being in the middle of the room. The Jamo speakers need to be at least two feet off the rear wall to sound right and the Mirage towers need around a foot and a half.
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DSkip. Do you mean put the speakers on stands in corners? If so, unfortunately the way the room is laid out that won't work. Two corners have closets, one a doorway leading to another room and the last corner is the only one that resembles a traditional corner.
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OM 10's have a big base and are 48 inches tall. Granted they "slenderize" as the tower progresses upward but the base is something like a foot square. I may still be able to use those in a second system in the living room. But for the other room in question they definitely will take up too much room.
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Just found a review on Amazon where the owner of the A1 states they sound much better off the wall at 2 feet off the rear wall.
By chance, has anyone here actually tested the A1's or A3's against the rear wall and a few inches off the wall as well as out in the room to compare the contrast in the sound of the speakers? -
Not me....but it stands to reason that placement or whats on the side of the speakers is also going to play a part in their sound. For instance, they can be against a wall in a cubby hole and sound like garbage, or against a wall in a more open room and sound better.
Maybe post a pic of where you'll place them.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Tony. They would have about 2 to 3 feet off the side walls.
My home is two hours drive from my current home. If I can remember, I will try to get a photo of the room where these speakers will be located.
Right now the room is empty. Want to design the living space around the stereo system.
I did note the TSX 220b does not have the rear port. Just a front port. Would I be giving up a lot in sound quality if I purchased the 220b over the A1? It appears as though the 220b could be located right up against the rear wall since it does not have that rear port.
BTW. Using this system strictly for music. No home theater. -
I'm using the TL3s for my pc speakers. These are terrific speakers, they are being powered by a Cambridge Soundworks pc sub @ 36wpc and sound great. They are clear and articulate. The powerport is on the bottom so it doesn't interfere with the wall. You would just have to get brackets for them.
I think you would be happy with them.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
cfrizz. Thanks for mentioning these. That is something else I've considered for this situation. While I would not be using the speakers for my computer, from what I've read, these Blackstone wall mounts have excellent mid range and high end that compares to the better bookshelf and floor standing Polk lines.
Would I be giving up much in the mid range and high end if I went with the TL2? Pairing those with a sub woofer would keep me in my desired price range. -
Cathy is right. Those would be an excellent choice. DefTech ProMonitor 800s would also be a good choice. Sealed I believe, with passive radiators. Small size.
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deronb1. Just took a glance at the spec's on the DT model and was shocked to see the frequency response is 57 to 30 khz. Amazing for such a small speaker. Price is good too. Will read some reviews on it now. Have to see if they have the kind of sound that I require. Prefer a neutral sound if possible. Have heard the BP 8 and BP 10's in the past and thought those were pretty nice speakers though not quite in the same ball park as the Mirage OM 10's I bought back in 2000. But still very good speakers.
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I think the sound Sig would be similar to the BPs although obviously not bi-polar. I have a pair of older promonitor 80s that I put in rotation as surrounds now and then. I have also seen some killer deals on the SM 350 and 450s. May not need a sub with either of those.
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Thanks. Will the Blackstone series offer the same kind of detail and neutral sound that I would get with the A1 speakers? And will the image or stage be about as large as the A1 or 220b when paired with a sub woofer?
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I would doubt that you would get a comparable sound stage with the Blackstone.
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I would doubt that you would get a comparable sound stage with the Blackstone.
Have found this to be the case in a couple of reviews. Since the room has a high ceiling and could be considered mid sized, I may have to stick with the A1 and just hope that it will sound OK if it is mounted on stands up against the wall or a few inches from it. -
Thanks. Will the Blackstone series offer the same kind of detail and neutral sound that I would get with the A1 speakers? And will the image or stage be about as large as the A1 or 220b when paired with a sub woofer?
No.
The TL3's were some of the most disappointing speakers I have ever had in my home.
They were sent back almost right away and replaced with my DT ProMonitors.
The ProMonitors have a much more natural sound and can dig a lot deeper. All for the same price and size as the TL3's. -
Upstatemax. Which Promonitor speaker are you using? The 800 or something else?
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Just found a review on Amazon where the owner of the A1 states they sound much better off the wall at 2 feet off the rear wall.
By chance, has anyone here actually tested the A1's or A3's against the rear wall and a few inches off the wall as well as out in the room to compare the contrast in the sound of the speakers?
Yes - due to room constraints I started with RTi4s wall mounted about 4" away, then upgraded to RTiA3s using the same wall mounts
http://erikt.cts.com/Pictures/hometheater/home-theater-valor.JPG
Is this optimal? Probably not.
Did it 'work'? Yes
Did it sound good? Hell yes!
Life is imperfect - be flexible.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Erik. Is the Bass still tight and not boomy when the speakers are mounted in this manner?
And how is the image? Wide or does it shrink considerably?
My Jamo's sound fantastic when the back of the speaker is 24 inches from the rear wall. But I lose the wide image and bass becomes a little slack if I move them in closer to the rear wall. Not practical at this point given the situation I have.
If mounting them only 4 inches from the rear wall can still achieve good results and not mess with the image or lead to really sloppy bass then I think I've found my speaker. -
Upstatemax. Which Promonitor speaker are you using? The 800 or something else?
ProMonitor 800 R&L and ProCenter 1000
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The sound stage was wide with the RTiA3s.
I do run a sub and found that with time, patience, and some experimentation with the settings that the bass was quite balanced between the sub and the RTiA3s.
If you use an AVR bass management and a sub then wall mounting bookshelves is less of an issue.
The 'trick' is using wall mounted bookshelves and a sub with a 2-channel setup.
It can be done, but it takes time to find what works best.
In such instances, there are devices that can help - esp the DSpeaker 8033 equalizer.
That is on my short list to try out.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
I just need to be able to hear the bass. Won't need a sub woofer. Have some $300 heavy duty steel stands for the speakers.
Not planning to use them for HT. Just a traditional two way stereo system with an integrated amp. 50 wpc into 8 ohms, solid state. May use them with my Qinpu A3 hybrid tube/solid state amp too. Drives the Mirage OM 10 towers great.
I've read enough reviews where people mention they are excellent as standalone speakers without a sub woofer. Just a matter of playing around with the placement as you mentioned. -
Upstatemax wrote: »
Thanks Upstatemax. Will keep this in mind. I think I am going to order the Polk RTI A1 or maybe the A3 first. If I can't get the sound I desire then I will look at the DT speakers you've mentioned. -
Thanks Upstatemax. Will keep this in mind. I think I am going to order the Polk RTI A1 or maybe the A3 first. If I can't get the sound I desire then I will look at the DT speakers you've mentioned.
If you plan on not running a sub, I would not get something as small as the ProMonitors. For some reason I thought you were running a sub...
They are much more natural that the TL3's and dig deeper, but ANY speaker that size will need a sub to support them.
I have 2 Velodyne SPL1000's helping my DTs out.
If you just want to run 2ch and still want some bass, I would not go any smaller than the A3's, IMO.
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Upstatemax wrote: »Thanks Upstatemax. Will keep this in mind. I think I am going to order the Polk RTI A1 or maybe the A3 first. If I can't get the sound I desire then I will look at the DT speakers you've mentioned.
If you plan on not running a sub, I would not get something as small as the ProMonitors. For some reason I thought you were running a sub...
They are much more natural that the TL3's and dig deeper, but ANY speaker that size will need a sub to support them.
I have 2 Velodyne SPL1000's helping my DTs out.
If you just want to run 2ch and still want some bass, I would not go any smaller than the A3's, IMO.
I would use a sub woofer if necessary with the satellites. Should not need one with the larger bookshelf speakers though. Would prefer not to use a sub woofer if possible. One less component that will use up an AC outlet which are at a premium in this house.
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Just thought of something that might impact the sound.
Hardwood floors in the room. Will this make the A1 or A3 sound bright? I don't want a bright speaker. I want to be sure I have a speaker that sounds neutral i.e. somewhat laid back or perhaps a slightly warm mid range. Definitely don't want pronounced high end or booming bass. -
Hardwood floors can totally change the sound of a system. We recently pulled up wall-to-wall carpet & refinished the oak floors in our living room. Until I put a large oriental carpet in the room, put heavy curtains up & moved soft furniture back in, the stereo was unlistenable. It isn't just about sound bright, it's about the early reflections seriously mucking up the sound.
Cheers, Jim
A day without music is like a day without food. -
Just thought of something that might impact the sound.
Hardwood floors in the room. Will this make the A1 or A3 sound bright? I don't want a bright speaker. I want to be sure I have a speaker that sounds neutral i.e. somewhat laid back or perhaps a slightly warm mid range. Definitely don't want pronounced high end or booming bass.
Then the RTI series isn't for you. Unfortunately your budget doesn't leave a lot of room for choices. A warmer sounding speaker would be the Polk LSI series, more coin though.
Smaller speakers with warmer sound usually have a British heritage. Maybe seek something out made across the pond but I dunno if that will happen at your budget.
Problem with smaller cheaper speakers is they are usually voiced for a brighter top end to give them the illusion of being more detailed. If you go with any of the RTIA series, you may have to throw a rug down in the room and find warmer sounding speaker cables. Analysis plus 12's would be a warmer cable as is Kimber cable. If you plan on using regular Home depot cable those highs may become piercing. Just some things to chew on. Your asking for a lot in that budget, so you may have to concede on some things you desire in the sound or be willing to tailor the sound by other means.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Tony. Thanks. Was thinking that was the case. The Jamo speakers are fine in that room except for the requirement to keep them 2 feet off the rear wall. Have done additional reading and found that some rear ported speakers such as the Boston Acoustics A 25 only need to be a few inches off the back wall or may be mounted on the wall and still sound good. Definitely not the case with the Jamo speakers.
Using Audio Quest Type 4 speaker cable and Audio Art's entry level Interconnect. IC3 I think. Also using the Pangea 14SE for the CD player. IC3 and the Pangea cable have helped the most.
I like hardwood floors too much to want to go back to carpet. In my previous home I had hardwood and the speakers were fine since I had room to handle the rear ported OM 10's and Jamo C601's. Both are mellow speakers and didn't sound at all bright in that environment.
