XPA-5 or XPA-2 for 50/50 Home Theater / Music

Velocitydreamer

Hello Fellow Polkies!
I recently purchased a pair of RTi12's and will be eventually getting a CSi5 and FXi's or Rti8's for sides. I'm currently using a Parasound HCA-500 (yeah, not much), and hope to pick up either an XPA-5 or 2; however, if I pick up a 2, I don't forsee myself shelling out for a beefy amp for the rest of the setup. I'm wanting to stick with emo for the amps, I know they're a little bright for the RTi's, but whatever, I can always flip the amp. My question is how noticebly better down low would the 2 be than the 5? The idea of getting one amp to handle the entire surround is kinda nice, but I want the 12's to dig, and if there's a big difference, then I'll get the 2. Eventually I'll be changing up the system to RTi a9's or ML Electromotions, but yeah... that's down the road. Thoughts? Experiences?

ZLTFUL

Bear in mind that you need 2 times the power for a 3db increase in volume. The difference between those amps is 100wpc.
You would "gain" 1.5db in volume at a given setting on the "loud knob" but that is barely audible.

Polkie2009

You want the 12's to dig? Are you referring to your subwoofers RW-12s? How would the Emotiva help them to dig?

ROHfan

I use an XPA-3 with my Electromotions and I like the combination, FWIW. Nice bottom end, and nice all around. Then again, I am using a tube preamp for 2ch but the XPA-3/Marantz AVR combo is great for HT as well.

seabeerob213

Pick up that 1200 ii or 3500 in the for sale right now

Inspector 24

seabeerob213 wrote: »

Pick up that 1200 ii or 3500 in the for sale right now

This is a great idea. All day everyday and twice on Taco Tuesday.

WLDock

Go used, Get a B&K which is on the warm side, to smooth out the RTi's.

B&K 7270 SII
7x200 watts @ 8ohms
7x300 watts @ 4ohms
http://denver.craigslist.org/ele/4841367923.html

Should be more power, detail, and warmth to mate up with any speakers you choose.

seabeerob213

Inspector 24 wrote: »

seabeerob213 wrote: »

Pick up that 1200 ii or 3500 in the for sale right now

This is a great idea. All day everyday and twice on Taco Tuesday.

Oh god, taco Tuesday, I'll go get some baby wipes...

Velocitydreamer

Ended up with a B&K Ref 7250. Great amp! Definitely on the warmer side, which is great for the RTi's. Just posted a question in the Electronics category regarding soundcard vs outboard pre. Any help would be much appreciated!

tonyb

Velocitydreamer wrote: »

Ended up with a B&K Ref 7250. Great amp! Definitely on the warmer side, which is great for the RTi's. Just posted a question in the Electronics category regarding soundcard vs outboard pre. Any help would be much appreciated!

Answered that for ya. If you dig what that amp does, a B&k ref 30 pre/pro for a tad over 100 bucks is on my local craigslist. Way better than any receiver out there today for sound quality and especially with RTI speakers.

EndersShadow

Velocitydreamer wrote: »

Ended up with a B&K Ref 7250. Great amp! Definitely on the warmer side, which is great for the RTi's. Just posted a question in the Electronics category regarding soundcard vs outboard pre. Any help would be much appreciated!

Just saw this.... It is a great amp. I got the next revision 5 channel of that line which is the 200.5.... I was eyein a couple 7250's and 7750's myself....

Love it with my LSi's..... It doesn't even blink at all....

I'm hoping my wife will leave for a couple hours here in the next couple weeks (w the kido) so I can truly watch a movie at as full a volume as I can handle and see how hte amp reacts.....

mrbiron

^^^^ Sure Dan.....nothing like a woman's **** at reference levels.......

Geoff4rfc

Sorry I'm so late to the party, I would have recommended a pair of XPA-2's set at bridged mode to run as mono blocks for those bad boys. Congrats on the B&K, didn't know they were still around

F1nut

I would have recommended a pair of XPA-2's set at bridged mode to run as mono blocks

You do realize that running bridged increases the noise floor, which is never a good thing.

Inspector 24

F1nut wrote: »

I would have recommended a pair of XPA-2's set at bridged mode to run as mono blocks

You do realize that running bridged increases the noise floor, which is never a good thing.

You do realize that all some people care about is MoaR PoWeR!

Besides, why would anybody run a really good amp with 12's/9's. Not like you can hear the differences anyway.

/troll

Totally agree by the way. While I got more volume bridging an amp, never much cared for the actual sound quality.

Geoff4rfc

F1nut wrote: »

I would have recommended a pair of XPA-2's set at bridged mode to run as mono blocks

You do realize that running bridged increases the noise floor, which is never a good thing.

Hi Jesse. I've gone back and forth with my amps from stereo to bridged a few times. My ears don't detect any noise floor no matter how it's set up. The headroom I get is very impressive, at least a 7 to 8 decibel difference, so, sucks to be me I guess

tonyb

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

I would have recommended a pair of XPA-2's set at bridged mode to run as mono blocks

You do realize that running bridged increases the noise floor, which is never a good thing.

Hi Jesse. I've gone back and forth with my amps from stereo to bridged a few times. My ears don't detect any noise floor no matter how it's set up. The headroom I get is very impressive, at least a 7 to 8 decibel difference, so, sucks to be me I guess

F1nut is correct in his comments. If you can't hear the difference in the noise floor that means you've never heard your system minus the noise and have accepted it as part of the musical presentation.

The other reason against running bridged mode is that most amps in bridged mode do not like impedance swings much below 8 ohms. Headroom is a good thing, but not the only thing. If you had a high current delivering amp you wouldn't need to bridge or feel like you needed more headroom.

Running lessor amps and trying to squeeze the headroom out of them is like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip....so to speak. Usually never relates to good sound overall. Also speakers are not unlimited in soaking up as much power as you feed them. They have their limits, as do amps. Trick is matching those so neither is abused.

Geoff4rfc

tonyb wrote: »

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

I would have recommended a pair of XPA-2's set at bridged mode to run as mono blocks

You do realize that running bridged increases the noise floor, which is never a good thing.

Hi Jesse. I've gone back and forth with my amps from stereo to bridged a few times. My ears don't detect any noise floor no matter how it's set up. The headroom I get is very impressive, at least a 7 to 8 decibel difference, so, sucks to be me I guess

F1nut is correct in his comments. If you can't hear the difference in the noise floor that means you've never heard your system minus the noise and have accepted it as part of the musical presentation.

The other reason against running bridged mode is that most amps in bridged mode do not like impedance swings much below 8 ohms. Headroom is a good thing, but not the only thing. If you had a high current delivering amp you wouldn't need to bridge or feel like you needed more headroom.

Running lessor amps and trying to squeeze the headroom out of them is like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip....so to speak. Usually never relates to good sound overall. Also speakers are not unlimited in soaking up as much power as you feed them. They have their limits, as do amps. Trick is matching those so neither is abused.

Hi Tony, how've you been?

Your delivery has always been warmer then Jesse's bright delivery (no offense J, just truth).

Yeah, Tony, I also understand that the more electronics you have in your system also invites more floor noise, hell I've got three amps with my AVR and three more pieces of electronics, I have a sign on my front door "FLOOR NOISE WELCOME".

With the exception of my bridged amps, I try to have all shielded cables at least! My 70.4 does an excellent job at room correction, I know this doesn't eliminate floor noise but it sure does give me an excellent sound from my speakers.

Right now, from what I can hear, I'm getting the best sound from my system since I've owned it, so what the hey, rock on bridged amps!!

EndersShadow

If it blows back your sack, who cares lol....

Inspector 24

EndersShadow wrote: »

If it blows back your sack, who cares lol....

Everyone on this forum who bothers chiming in to offer advice...or opinions.

Because you don't know what you're missing, it could blow back your sack better!

Polkie2009

Nothing like the smell of cooked drivers in the morning. They will probably sound fine til they don't.

Geoff4rfc

It's funny, I've been away from this once loved forum, only because of the stinking arrogance and the and presumptions of a persons home set up, without ever seeing a person given a benefit of a doubt, just assume that what is being done is "improper".......

Lol, no one here has been to my house, or seen or heard my set up, except for one, he is a long standing member here, and the cool brother came bearing gifts of ice cold beverages. Dude was more than impressed, I can say that because he took notes on what CD's he was going to go buy for his own set up.

Now in my opinion, and only my opinion, if a guy listens to a system and it inspires him to go out and buy music, I don't think enough "floor noise" was involved to make a difference.....We'll see you boys another time.

Tony, I'm glad to see your high level tact is still intact

F1nut

I don't think enough "floor noise" was involved to make a difference

Geoff, it's noise floor and thing about is that you don't know it's there until it's reduced. It tends to be one of those ah-ha moments.

Inspector 24

I'd like to hear some EMO and RTi too...as I've only known Parasound and RTi it could be revealing.

ken brydson

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

It's funny, I've been away from this once loved forum, only because of the stinking arrogance and the and presumptions of a persons home set up, without ever seeing a person given a benefit of a doubt, just assume that what is being done is "improper".......

Lol, no one here has been to my house, or seen or heard my set up, except for one, he is a long standing member here, and the cool brother came bearing gifts of ice cold beverages. Dude was more than impressed, I can say that because he took notes on what CD's he was going to go buy for his own set up.

Now in my opinion, and only my opinion, if a guy listens to a system and it inspires him to go out and buy music, I don't think enough "floor noise" was involved to make a difference.....We'll see you boys another time.

Tony, I'm glad to see your high level tact is still intact

I am the one who GEEEoff speaks of who visited his abode. Love or hate Emo, his rig blew me away. Glad to see you posting again brother...

ken brydson

nbrowser wrote: »

Geoff, when I get my documentation and passport, dude your in for a visit if your still in the Pacitifc NW, I wanna hear Emo and RTiA...then again no more Parasound and RTiA here.

I'll be there bearing beverages..

EndersShadow

ken brydson wrote: »

I am the one who GEEEoff speaks of who visited his abode. Love or hate Emo, his rig blew me away. Glad to see you posting again brother...

Yup, he's around..... he's gone nuts with his foam treatments though...... not that its bad just my OCD is making me cry when I see it... Oh and I've shown the pics to my wife to explain why what I want to do is VERY small comparatively...

Velocitydreamer

LoL, lotta posts since I last checked this thread! I love the amp by the way! I had a much smaller parasound running them before, I feel this amp is even warmer, but it's hard to tell because I get the feeling the parasound wasn't exactly up for the task (note I said smaller). The B&K is warmer on the highs, and more confident on the lows, but the Parasound wasn't anywhere near a good model match so... It was between the B&K and a pricier HCA-2205AT which would have been a good pick too. The B&K though is MINT, guess a guy who owned it passed away shortly after getting it, so his brother sold it for significantly less than what they normally go for used. The thing that confuses me about it is the 6th channel. Is it passive? Manual shows a sub cable going to it, it has a level knob and everything, but can't verify what it's for and how it works. All that aside, Tony offered up a good pre, but I'm still curious about a good sound card like the Omega Claro II or Sonar Essence STX ii vs a (used)pre for under $4-500. I use JRiver MC20 and like to listen to music in extended stereo for the most part (yeah yeah, I know), and watch a good bit of movies. I'm considering picking up another set of RTi12's for sides because I may have a good deal on them. I know it's not exactly ideal for sides for movies, but music extended stereo I figured it'd sound good; however, I may pick up another amp eventually and run a 7.1. So opinions on SC's vs a pre that falls in that budget? lol

EndersShadow

Velocitydreamer wrote: »

The thing that confuses me about it is the 6th channel. Is it passive? Manual shows a sub cable going to it, it has a level knob and everything, but can't verify what it's for and how it works.

Its an amp channel, what the 6 channel amps were meant for were to be used to drive a PASSIVE sub, or IIRC for use with a rear center channel. Not all subs had plate amps back then. So you'd use that for your sub as the power for it. If your sub has a plate amp (just about all from regular manufactures do) then you dont need it for that, and you can use it for something else..... say a 6.1 setup

Velocitydreamer

Weird, because everywhere it's advertised as only a 5ch, and I can't find ANY info on the 6th channel, that's why I question it a good bit.

Velocitydreamer

and if you look on the back, everything, from input to fuse and terminals looks capped off, almost like it's the same chassis for a 6ch, but they just capped it off and gave it a different model number lol... there IS a level knob though, which is why I was wondering if it just passes through a signal and controls the level or somethin?? Just never found any specs on the 6th channel anywhere, all specs show 5ch. Would never have known it was there cept for looking.