help with RTI 150 AND PIONEER D509S

Frank Z

you have no idea how i feel so keep your mouth out of my comments.

Oh I think we've all got a pretty good idea right about now.

the man with the worlds biggest chip on his shoulders. I could care less what anyone thinks of me if you do not like what i say then do not read it or keep your rude and unwated comments to yourself.

any way i am done with this thread it is obvious that their are way to many bill gates and donald trumps out here that have the best equipment in the world that they probably(more than likely) didn't even hook the equipment up themselves they hired a pro to do it and are all just talking the talk and not walking the walk.

I'M DONE GOOD BYE GOOD LUCK AND I HOPE ONE DAY SOME OF YOU OR ALL OF YOU COME ACROSS THE SAME PROBLEM I AM HAVING SO I CAN LAUGH AT YOU LIKE YOU ARE ALL LAUGHIN AT ME. WHAT COMES AROUND GOES AROUND.

You seem to misunderstand the concept of MSRP. I've never paid the MSRP for any speakers or for any A/V gear. Just because the Manufacturer Suggests a Retail Price (MSRP) doesn't mean that any retailer must sell them at that price. And it certainly does not mean that you the consumer must pay the MSPR.

Crutchfield can afford to discount because they sell a huge volume of speakers. The more they buy from Polk, the less they have to pay per unit. Therefore they can pass the savings on to you.

bullwinkle1968

Originally posted by Frank Z
Oh I think we've all got a pretty good idea right about now.









You seem to misunderstand the concept of MSRP. I've never paid the MSRP for any speakers or for any A/V gear. Just because the Manufacturer Suggests a Retail Price (MSRP) doesn't mean that any retailer must sell them at that price. And it certainly does not mean that you the consumer must pay the MSPR.

Crutchfield can afford to discount because they sell a huge volume of speakers. The more they buy from Polk, the less they have to pay per unit. Therefore they can pass the savings on to you.

you quote on what you want to quote one but as always you did not quote on anything relevent to what i said accept what you wanted to say.

in other words if your going to talk then talk about what i put up on the post all of it not just what you feel like it.

i have called and talked with onkyo and dennon and harmon kardon and all the others you have talked about and they all have pretty much said that all of you are wrong in a way it is not the ohms or the wattage it i the maker and how they make it. as for my pioneer yes it is good enough to power these speakers i just need to keep a fan on it and kep it from over heating. any equipment whether it be onkyo or dennon or harmon kardon even with an amp attached if you do not keep it under 80 degrees in the amp compartment it does not make a differenece if you buy a 20000 dollar audio system if you do not keep it cool it will blow out on you. so i took the cover off of mine and added two computer cpu fans and now i can crank it all the way down to 10 db wit out hearing any popping or craking. so you all see you all were somewhat wrong and somewhat right but if our not able to make a few calls and do what it takes to make existing equipment work then you should not even be commenting on anything here. and one last thing i got the last laugh on all that thinks your smarter than me the fans only costed me 25.00 dollars and 2 hours of work and it works like a brand new reciever no problems what so ever.:D

Tour2ma

EDIT: rethought my original post in the spirit of honoring newbies...

OK let's review here...

The output transistors were being taxed beyond the ability of the associated fins and other surfaces to disperse the heat and shutdowns were occurring per design. This was at master volume levels of -40 dB or less.

Adding fans increased the heat dispersion sufficiently to avoid shutdowns at even higher output demands, now at -10 dB or less.

Are the output transistors any better off? I doubt it as they are generating more heat than ever. It's just not being allowed to accumulate.

Hope I'm wrong, but I think the sympton not the roblem has been treated. Kinda like the old saying, the surgery was successful, but the patient died... well not yet anyway.

disneyjoe7

>>just becasue speakers costed 1400 to 1500 dollars doesn't mean it worth that. polk inflates their prices more so than the reciever manufactures of the recivers to make them look better than they actually are.<<


Did you think about this. If speakers are inflated & receivers are inflated don't you think there's a relationship going on here?

I'm talking about store price / web price not MSRP.

My $1500 plus tax doesn't power the RTi150's well. But I knew this buying them, it all makes sense to me.

You buy $500 speakers added to a $350 receiver, it sounds good.

If you buy $150 speakers added to a $350 receiver, it sounds ok. But later over powering them, you killed them.

If you buy $1500 speakers added to a $350 receiver, it sounds ok. But you complain when your receiver says NO F*&^ing way.

disneyjoe7

Tour,

I think it's even deeper then this. When I first got my RTi150's I played some song that another member said gave problems, my receiver did the same thing shut down. It was stone cold, not over heated!

So my thinking is this (with an electronic tech thinking here) that the power supply is being monitored so when a drop of voltage on the transistors rails, it sensed as a short.

My thinking is this also, RTi150's sound great / great balance / but love clean strong power. The balance is in the crossover and this cause them to drop in ohmage (new word?) during a bass note around 150 / 200 Hz (I'm guessing). This drop in ohms I thinking in the range of >4ohms is more then any receiver can do at high volumes.

Do I think something wrong with RTi150's NO, if this balance wasn't there and a hole in the balance of sound was made so all receivers could drive them, the complaint would be they sound like crap.

Originally posted by Tour2ma
EDIT: rethought my original post in the spirit of honoring newbies...

OK let's review here...

The output transistors were being taxed beyond the ability of the associated fins and other surfaces to disperse the heat and shutdowns were occurring per design. This was at master volume levels of -40 dB or less.

Adding fans increased the heat dispersion sufficiently to avoid shutdowns at even higher output demands, now at -10 dB or less.

Are the output transistors any better off? I doubt it as they are generating more heat than ever. It's just not being allowed to accumulate.

Hope I'm wrong, but I think the sympton not the roblem has been treated. Kinda like the old saying, the surgery was successful, but the patient died... well not yet anyway.

bullwinkle1968

Originally posted by disneyjoe7
Tour,

I think it's even deeper then this. When I first got my RTi150's I played some song that another member said gave problems, my receiver did the same thing shut down. It was stone cold, not over heated!

So my thinking is this (with an electronic tech thinking here) that the power supply is being monitored so when a drop of voltage on the transistors rails, it sensed as a short.

My thinking is this also, RTi150's sound great / great balance / but love clean strong power. The balance is in the crossover and this cause them to drop in ohmage (new word?) during a bass note around 150 / 200 Hz (I'm guessing). This drop in ohms I thinking in the range of >4ohms is more then any receiver can do at high volumes.

Do I think something wrong with RTi150's NO, if this balance wasn't there and a hole in the balance of sound was made so all receivers could drive them, the complaint would be they sound like crap.

what ever your saying i have know idea what your talking about as i said earlier if your going to talk that audiophile bull talk i do not understand it.

now to let you know a litle more i installed 2 7200rpm fans one blowing in and one blowing out.

i can turn it down to 10 db with out hearing a popping or craking as i said i have not had an over load as of yet and i do not believe i will.

i have tested my theory and i have had it at 15 db for overone hour and not one over load or popping or craking which is more than i need. i put signal wattage meter thing what ever that thing is called and my reciever says with it cranked all they way up to 25 db i am putting out 115 watts at 6 ohms and at 15 db i am puting out 110 at like about 6.5 ohms. well at least i hope i am getting this right. this is what the audio repair shop told me.

anyway no matter what some of you guys think about me including this frank z guy all i ever asked for any one to do is talk english to me not audiiophile lingo and when everone kept talking that to me it pissed me off i tried to be nice and no one cared or wanted to listen to me accept talk lingo jingle crap.

thank you for you help but untill this reciever fails i see know reason to spend 2,500 dollars on a reciever that know one out hear can be for sure that it will work even the manufacturers.

disneyjoe7

Sorry, this is a little electronic tech stuff.

Another way to see this can D battery light a flashlight, answer YES. Can a D battery light a car headlight, answer NO.

Can any receiver power RTi150's Good, answer NO. Can a AMP do it, answer YES.

I telling this my receiver cost me $1500 and it doesn't it work RTi150 very well. So do I need a $3500 receiver I don't think so. I do need an AMP to add to my receiver now.

Can any receiver work these speakers, I don't think so. I don't think Polk made them to work on any receiver, and if they did I like to know what it is.


Sorry this is what I think my 2 cents.

Frank Z

Okay, fine! I'm a freakin' jerk for tryining to help!

Good luck with your speakers.

bullwinkle1968

Originally posted by disneyjoe7
Sorry, this is a little electronic tech stuff.

Another way to see this can D battery light a flashlight, answer YES. Can a D battery light a car headlight, answer NO.

Can any receiver power RTi150's Good, answer NO. Can a AMP do it, answer YES.

I telling this my receiver cost me $1500 and it doesn't it work RTi150 very well. So do I need a $3500 receiver I don't think so. I do need an AMP to add to my receiver now.

Can any receiver work these speakers, I don't think so. I don't think Polk made them to work on any receiver, and if they did I like to know what it is.


Sorry this is what I think my 2 cents.

understandable

if this is so true then why is my reciever working so well now.
as i stated in previous post the modifications i did and now i am having no problem.

thanks for talking regular english to me.

bullwinkle1968

Originally posted by Frank Z


Okay, fine! I'm a freakin' jerk for tryining to help!

Good luck with your speakers.

i did not say your a jerk.

i am saying you have had many many many years t do what you have accomplished and you just won't talk english to me and then you keep insulting me when i have asked repeatedly for all to talk to me in plain english but you never would.

i saw your setup and it was great setup your lucky to have something that great but i would never buy a projection tv on the ceiling be afraid it would fall or get hit by a flying toy or something
but thats your choice your kids are probably old enough to know better.

but anyway i am not trying to be a jerk or an a** all i am saying is i am very new to tis stuff and everyone up untill recently talked lingo jingo and confused me and like i have stated in my last posts i put fans in there keeping the heat disapated and know it works great so i still do not understand where everyoe get the idea i need an amp unless you wanting to hear your music 10 miles away. well if you live in the country or have neighbors that do not care about loud music then i guess that is fine and if your willing to spend the money ten go for it.

you may not realise that your confusing andmaybe you are and you like to look like your big and educated and maybe your are but when it comes from a forum and not a school class room where you can show hands on training you need to seak english.

sorry if i upset you it was not my intention i just do not like people that talk that lingo jingle to me when i expressly asked to be talked to on regular english.

but any way lets stop this bickering. you have a great setup and i hope one day maybe i will have the ame as you

PolkWannabie

English ? ... You first !

AsSiMiLaTeD

OK....here's my thoughts...

Bullwinkle stated his problem...receiver was having issue with the RTi150...no big deal, this questions has been answered a thousand times. So everyone starts chiming in (Frank included), basically just saying that more power is needed to drive the 150s. We all know this to be true. So I'm taking a look back through the first few posts where everyone is just telling him to get more power, and I'm not finding all the 'auidio lingo' that bullwinkle is speaking of, at least not in the first few posts. It's pretty simple, we're all just saying to give those speakers more power, becuase we've all answered this question many times before...

No **** lingo, just straight answers...

Bullwinkle gets upset becuase he thinks that Polk misrepresented these speakers and is unwilling to help...that is where things started going bad...We were all good until the Polk bashing began...

First, let me address the whole Polk misrepresenting the speakers thing...we'll start with the watts becuase that's easy...Polk says 50 - 500 watts for these, that means that they will run with as little as 50 and as much as 500...stands to reason that somewhere in the middle would be a good starting point. They WILL run off 50 watts each, but won't shine at that level. 500 watts each is probably overkill, so somewhere in the middle is probably good...I'd say at least 200 watts each...There is NO MISREPRESENTATION here...Polk is 100 % ABSOLUTELY CORRECT when they rate them at 50-500 watts becuase they will run anywhere in that range. HOWEVER, any intelligent individual can look at the specs and see that 50 is MINIMUM, so you'd want to be as much above that as possible. If you've got a receiver rated at 100 WPC, you can conclude that you're going to be running these speakers closer to their minimum than their maximum...NO audio experience or education is necessary to make that judgement...it's just common sense from looking at the numbers...as for the ohms piece, Frank has already addressed it so I won't redo all that...

FWIW Bullwinkle, I'm glad you got your receiver running these with some extra cooling, but at 100 WPC I can guarantee you that you've not seen what these speakers are capable of. FYI, volume is not the only thing that increases with wattage...clarity, imaging, soundstage, etc also increase with wattage. It's not all about seeing how loud you can turn it up ...

Just an FYI...it's probably not the best idea to jump on to the Polk forum, ask the group for advice, discard and rebut that advice when given in the best of intentions, call their speakers and CS ****, and then commense bashing various forum members who have done nothing but offer assistance.

I'm not your father and can't tell you what to do...but if I were you I'd really take a few minutes and read this entire thread from beginning to end and think it through...Anyone can go through and pull quote to support their side all day, but really just go through and take a look at the whole thread...I think any reasonable person would see that you really are a little out of line...I think you'll see it also...I usually don't get involved in these little pissing contests, but I really think you're wrong on this one.

Yes, we are defensive (for the most part) of Polk merchandise and service...we on the forum believe that Polk offers an exceptional product at a great value...and I've only had good luck with CS...so when someone comes in swinging fists, they're not going to get the warmest welcome.

My $.02

bullwinkle1968

Originally posted by Polkmaniac
OK....here's my thoughts...

Bullwinkle stated his problem...receiver was having issue with the RTi150...no big deal, this questions has been answered a thousand times. So everyone starts chiming in (Frank included), basically just saying that more power is needed to drive the 150s. We all know this to be true. So I'm taking a look back through the first few posts where everyone is just telling him to get more power, and I'm not finding all the 'auidio lingo' that bullwinkle is speaking of, at least not in the first few posts. It's pretty simple, we're all just saying to give those speakers more power, becuase we've all answered this question many times before...

No **** lingo, just straight answers...

Bullwinkle gets upset becuase he thinks that Polk misrepresented these speakers and is unwilling to help...that is where things started going bad...We were all good until the Polk bashing began...

First, let me address the whole Polk misrepresenting the speakers thing...we'll start with the watts becuase that's easy...Polk says 50 - 500 watts for these, that means that they will run with as little as 50 and as much as 500...stands to reason that somewhere in the middle would be a good starting point. They WILL run off 50 watts each, but won't shine at that level. 500 watts each is probably overkill, so somewhere in the middle is probably good...I'd say at least 200 watts each...There is NO MISREPRESENTATION here...Polk is 100 % ABSOLUTELY CORRECT when they rate them at 50-500 watts becuase they will run anywhere in that range. HOWEVER, any intelligent individual can look at the specs and see that 50 is MINIMUM, so you'd want to be as much above that as possible. If you've got a receiver rated at 100 WPC, you can conclude that you're going to be running these speakers closer to their minimum than their maximum...NO audio experience or education is necessary to make that judgement...it's just common sense from looking at the numbers...as for the ohms piece, Frank has already addressed it so I won't redo all that...

FWIW Bullwinkle, I'm glad you got your receiver running these with some extra cooling, but at 100 WPC I can guarantee you that you've not seen what these speakers are capable of. FYI, volume is not the only thing that increases with wattage...clarity, imaging, soundstage, etc also increase with wattage. It's not all about seeing how loud you can turn it up ...

Just an FYI...it's probably not the best idea to jump on to the Polk forum, ask the group for advice, discard and rebut that advice when given in the best of intentions, call their speakers and CS ****, and then commense bashing various forum members who have done nothing but offer assistance.

I'm not your father and can't tell you what to do...but if I were you I'd really take a few minutes and read this entire thread from beginning to end and think it through...Anyone can go through and pull quote to support their side all day, but really just go through and take a look at the whole thread...I think any reasonable person would see that you really are a little out of line...I think you'll see it also...I usually don't get involved in these little pissing contests, but I really think you're wrong on this one.

Yes, we are defensive (for the most part) of Polk merchandise and service...we on the forum believe that Polk offers an exceptional product at a great value...and I've only had good luck with CS...so when someone comes in swinging fists, they're not going to get the warmest welcome.

My $.02

I completely understand what you are saying. i have read this forum from where i started it to currently and you are missing the most part of the arguement.

yes i know every one is telling me more power more power more power and i understand. you may not see the lingo casue your used to it ut i am not i had no intentions of coming into this forum swinging fists and i have tried to apologise and still i am getting pissed on by like the post of the polkwannabie and frank z

i apologized to frank z but i will not apolise to the polkwannabie.
he is not letting the matter drop the original arguement was between me and frank z and this polkwannabie just jumps in ike he owns this forum and keeps insulting me.

i have also apologized to the rest of you and i guess you have accepted it cause your not acting like the polkwannabie and being a total **** even after i apologised.

first and for most what mad me mad about this whole thing is that everone is telling me more power and telling to go buy this or go buy that and if everyone in ths forum is so dedicated to polk and their stereos and amps you would think that their wold be some kind of unilateral agreement on what i best for these speakers but everyone has their own stint and likes which is understandable.

but what every one seems to over look and not addressing is that i talkedwith alot of different techs dennon,onkyo,marantz,and even polk before i bought these even cruthfield and my local stores that carried them and everyone told me that my receiver would handle these speakers just fine with no problems and then after i buy them i find out that now i need to spend another $2000+ just to make these speakers work well.

now if you were me and you were new to this and ou were told all of this and reserched this for a month befor i bought them and then after you buy them you find out you need more power well i am not tim from the show home improvment.(more power more power) all i am saying i i was lied to even by polk who i honestly believed they were telling me the truth. i have a modest setup i do not have nor will ihave a setup like frank z it would be nice to but it is not feisable at this time. i honestly tried to be nice but i will not be allowed to be talked to that way in any way shape or
form.

i understand what you all are saying and i reiterate my aplogie to you all accept for the polk wannabie as far as i am concerned for him he can burn in hell.

thank you polk maniac my apologies to you to.

sorry again to all accept for the one i mention earlier.

AsSiMiLaTeD

but you've got all those empty shelves waiting for amplifiers :-)

Wasn't aware that you talked to Polk before buying those speakers...looks like Polk was right though since you did eventually get it working with added cooling...it's hard for anyone to forsee the need for that I guess...

Anyway, glad you got it working. However, I will say this, as much as you love those speakers now, you'd love them even more with an added amp...I know here we go again, but hear me out...

With the extra power, you're not only getting louder sound, you're getting better sound. I had an Onkyo that provided the 150s with 75 watts each, and I could turn it up to around 95 DB (actual volume, not the number on the receiver) with no issue. In case you're not up on your sound ratings, 95DB is FREAKIN LOUD!!!, I think a jet engine runs somewhere around 110DB, if that puts it in perspective. However, I just replaced the Onkyo with an older Harman kardon receiver, made the switch beucase I knew I wanted to add an amp to help power the fronts and the Onkyo didn't have amp outputs, so I grabbed the HK.

The HK stepped up the wattage from 75 WPC (watts per channel) to 100, so only a small increase. However, the increase in sound quality was HUGE! Is it louder? I don't know becuase I don't listen above ~95DB, but damn it sounds so much better. And just a few days ago I ordered a separate amp to help run the big 150s. I can use my receiver and the amp at the same time to power the speakers (called Bi-amping) so that I get more power. So I'll get it in a couple days and see how it sounds...I know it will sound awesome!!! Again, I'm not looking for louder, jsut a more detailed sound, better imaging and soundstage. Basically the goal of any good speaker should be to 'dissapear' in the music...you want to be able to close your eyes and 'not hear' the speaker, but instead hear to music (I know all this fluffy talk...but that's it in a nutshell...you want it to sound as real as possible)...the more power I give my 150s, the closer to that I get...Hope that makes sense a little...

Oh, and to address the financial piece...I just bought a new home and so I don't have a great deal of money to play with either...here's the breakdown of what happened for me:

Bought the H/K for $300 (it's an older receiver, but I don't need 7.1, so it works great for me)
Sold my Onkyo for $350 (it's actually quite newer than the HK, just doesn't have amp outputs)
Bought an amp to help drive the 150s for $150 off here.

End result = I paid $100 for a HELL OF AN UPGRADE TO MY HT.

So if you're patient and do some research, you can get a great deal!!!

Tour2ma

Thanks...

I do hope your fan solution holds up, but I do fear it will not.

The potential solutions to beefing up your power actually start in the $300 to 400 range with used amps that are out there.

Nice pic of your rig. Looks to be a very clean set-up. The toe-in of your 150's appears to be too extreme, however.

bullwinkle1968

Originally posted by Polkmaniac
but you've got all those empty shelves waiting for amplifiers :-)

Wasn't aware that you talked to Polk before buying those speakers...looks like Polk was right though since you did eventually get it working with added cooling...it's hard for anyone to forsee the need for that I guess...

Anyway, glad you got it working. However, I will say this, as much as you love those speakers now, you'd love them even more with an added amp...I know here we go again, but hear me out...

With the extra power, you're not only getting louder sound, you're getting better sound. I had an Onkyo that provided the 150s with 75 watts each, and I could turn it up to around 95 DB (actual volume, not the number on the receiver) with no issue. In case you're not up on your sound ratings, 95DB is FREAKIN LOUD!!!, I think a jet engine runs somewhere around 110DB, if that puts it in perspective. However, I just replaced the Onkyo with an older Harman kardon receiver, made the switch beucase I knew I wanted to add an amp to help power the fronts and the Onkyo didn't have amp outputs, so I grabbed the HK.

The HK stepped up the wattage from 75 WPC (watts per channel) to 100, so only a small increase. However, the increase in sound quality was HUGE! Is it louder? I don't know becuase I don't listen above ~95DB, but damn it sounds so much better. And just a few days ago I ordered a separate amp to help run the big 150s. I can use my receiver and the amp at the same time to power the speakers (called Bi-amping) so that I get more power. So I'll get it in a couple days and see how it sounds...I know it will sound awesome!!! Again, I'm not looking for louder, jsut a more detailed sound, better imaging and soundstage. Basically the goal of any good speaker should be to 'dissapear' in the music...you want to be able to close your eyes and 'not hear' the speaker, but instead hear to music (I know all this fluffy talk...but that's it in a nutshell...you want it to sound as real as possible)...the more power I give my 150s, the closer to that I get...Hope that makes sense a little...

Oh, and to address the financial piece...I just bought a new home and so I don't have a great deal of money to play with either...here's the breakdown of what happened for me:

Bought the H/K for $300 (it's an older receiver, but I don't need 7.1, so it works great for me)
Sold my Onkyo for $350 (it's actually quite newer than the HK, just doesn't have amp outputs)
Bought an amp to help drive the 150s for $150 off here.

End result = I paid $100 for a HELL OF AN UPGRADE TO MY HT.

So if you're patient and do some research, you can get a great deal!!!

thank you.

can you tel me where i can get a good reciever and amp. i do not want to take a chance and spend a ton of moey on an unauthorised retail site and get rammed. all the sites i have been too ay if you buy from an unauthoried retailer you will not have a warrenty threw them. the most i could spend on a reciever and and amp total is about 1000 to 1200 maximum.

thank you

bullwinkle1968

Originally posted by Tour2ma
Thanks...

I do hope your fan solution holds up, but I do fear it will not.

The potential solutions to beefing up your power actually start in the $300 to 400 range with used amps that are out there.

Nice pic of your rig. Looks to be a very clean set-up. The toe-in of your 150's appears to be too extreme, however.

lol lol here w go again:D

what is toe in lol lol

PolkWannabie

Hey Bullshitski ...

Go back and see who insulted who first ... Then do your own reschooling so you can write and read ENGLISH with some level of comprehension ...

bullwinkle1968

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
Hey Bullshitski ...

Go back and see who insulted who first ... Then do your own reschooling so you can write and read ENGLISH with some level of comprehension ...

i am tired of your crap. so i just repoerted you to the moderator.

good bye

PolkWannabie

Regarding being tired of it I am in complete agreement ...

If you think I insulted you first then please point out where that occured ...

Tour2ma

Originally posted by bullwinkle1968
lol lol here w go again:D

what is toe in lol lol

Toe-in is the degree to which the speakers are turned in the dirsection of fcing each other.

It's common to toe them in 10 to 30 gegrees or so, but your's look to be a full 45 degees.

bullwinkle1968

Originally posted by Tour2ma
Toe-in is the degree to which the speakers are turned in the dirsection of fcing each other.

It's common to toe them in 10 to 30 gegrees or so, but your's look to be a full 45 degees.

ok i did not know that. but i set everythig up by what the crutchfiled home theater guide told me to. and since i have no way of putting my sub behind my couch or more room for the speakers that wa the only way i could do it. the only other wa i could do it to make it look better and to toe them in any better is to pull the entertainment center out more from the wall and stick the speakers between the entertainment center and the tv and that would put them sending the sound directly at me and not acoustically threw the whole room and my surrund sound speakers are behind my couch so i got one speaker pointing towards me and one poining toward my couch and then i look at it this way that the wa they are pointed now it hits the middle of the room in a 90 degree fashion.

Tour2ma

Originally posted by bullwinkle1968
the wa they are pointed now it hits the middle of the room in a 90 degree fashion.

Yup, and that is extreme for most folks. Try aiming them at your primary listening position and see what you think.

It's all about imaging, and too much or too little toe-in will diminish the soundstage.

Where your sub is pointed will not matter... different animal.

Dennis Gardner

Before this thread gets closed, I want to tell Bullwinkle that every part of his system is working just as they were designed to do.

Your 509 was shutting down, just as it was designed to do when being turned up past its limits of output. The shutdown is designed into the receiver to keep it from distorting and burning up parts inside it. Even Pioneer's $2000 Elite receivers go into shutdown when driving the 150s.This can be caused by either power output overload (low ohms) or thermal (heat) shutdown. You have stopped the thermal shutdown from happening by adding fans, but you will continue to strain the output section of the receiver until it either blows parts or shorts out which can damage the tweeters in your 150s. You can use your receiver at low volume without any failure forever, but pushing it until fans are needed will burn it up. Your car will run at redline for hours, but days, weeks or months at redline will kill even the best of engines. That is why they rebuild Nascar engines after each race.

There is nothing wrong with the 150s that hasn't been there since they were first made. The reason that this hasn't been a real mainstream problem is that because these were Polk's highest price RT models, until they had become discontiuned recently and gone on sale, most people spending over $1000 on their Polks went for the LSi line. The price you got from Crutchfield is a closeout price on last years models, that is why they are so reasonable in pricing now.

I hope the RTi12s that replace the 150s are easier to drive, or we will start this issue again.

If you like Pioneer, look into the VSX D912K. It has (Preouts) hookups for an external amp. Then look for a used 2 channel amp that has a true 200 watt per side output. You can get this setup for around $300 for the 912 and $500 for the amp. This fits your price range and gets you into 6-7 channel surround sound as long as you don't buy huge surrounds to try and drive with the receiver.

Receivers are alway a compromise when it comes to power. Even my 700 watt Harman Kardon would get pretty hot trying to handle the 150s at high volumes, though it rocks my RTi70s until I can't stand it!


Good luck on your journey,

Dennis

PolkWannabie

I have the RTi12's ... The specs are ALMOST the same except I would think the 12's are slightly more difficult as they have 3-7" woofers as compared to the 150's that have 3-6.5" and they have 2-5.25" midwoofers as opposed to the 150's that have 1-6.5" midwoofer.

Use the compare models facility here ... http://www.polkaudio.com/home/compare_speakers.php

Dennis Gardner

What are you driving your 12s with?

Do you run the large or small, with a sub?

PolkWannabie

I have an Onkyo TX-NR801 which is 100 wpc more or less, but it is also, for a receiver, high current i.e. it will drive 4 ohm loads and below. I used that receiver by itself for a short while driving the 12's as LARGE along with a CSi5, FXi5's and RTi6's for center and surrounds.

But I'll also add here that I never really tried to push it to reference level before supplementing it with something else. Would it have been okay ? Maybe, but I really didn't want to find out.

Now I'm driving the seven channels using 2 Sunfire GC II Sigs i.e. 425 wpc and I am bi-amping the mains. Overkill ? Most definitely, but I'd much rather be on that side of things.

Dennis Gardner

Overkill in the audio world? Can there be too much of a good thing?

I have always liked Bob C.'s stuff since the 70's when I had the Phase Linear 400 and 700s with JBLs.

PolkWannabie

They are light weight, never get hot and work effortlessly regardless of what level I've been able to tolerate the volume at.

It may be overkill for now but I'm in the process of negotiating a deal for some other mains/center where every bit of that oomph will get put to good use.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Bullwinkle:

www.accessories4less.com is good for Marantz products. Honestly, I don't know of many sites, I typically buy used. If you can get past the mind block of buying used (took me a while) then you can really snag some good deals on Ebay and www.audiogon.com. Of course, it's a risk, but to buy from an authorized dealer usually costs quite a bit more... However, I'm finding more sellers on Ebay that are authorized online retailers, so you may have more luck there than you think.

You can also try the Harman Kardon site I think it's www.harmanaudio.com, they usually have stuff out there...

Also, keep an eye on the flea market on here. All these guys on here are good people and are fair...

I'll offer my $.02 on a receiver purchase: This is only my opinion, others may or may not agree:

1. Having those beasts as front speakers, you're going to want a separate amp any way you look at it. So, keeping that in mind, you don't necessarily need a receiver with 150 WPC, becuase you're only going to be using it for the center, surrounds, and maybe to bi-amp the 150s...so you can save some money there...
2. Thought I don't totally buy in to 'name brand shopping' there is a lesson to be leared there. If you're going to buy another Pioneer, grab one in the Elite Series...the regular series just won't cut it...same with Sony, if you're going to buy Sony get the ES line...
3. Make sure that it has preamp outputs

Some brands you should look at:

Denon
Harman Kardon
Marantz
Onkyo
Pioneer Elite
Sony ES (though not my personal choice)
NAD
Rotel
and a whole bunch of others...

Some stuff you MAY want to avoid - sure I'll get flamed for this list

Phillips
Kenwood
Sherwood
Technics
JVC
Anything RadioShack
the regular Sony and Pioneer stuff
you get the picture...

4. As for the amp, that's going to depend more on your receiver purchase. I'd start with the receiver becuase that's where you'll be needing to choose based on features and stuff. It's easy to find an amp to tailor to almost any situation, so you shouldn't have trouble there...just worry about the receiver first...