Tubes in the house !

2

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  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,871
    pa7c70II wrote: »
    Newbie here. I just bought the Silk Audio MS-38 thanks to lurking on this forum for awhile. I just wanted to reaffirm what the others are saying. This is a great tube amp for the money. I've got about 15 hours on it so far. Does anybody know what the 8 little red rubber caps that came with the unit are for? They are about the size of valve stem caps.
    they cover up the unused rca jacks on the rear to stop dust from getting in. there are also shorting plugs that do the same but also prevent rfi from leaking into your system.
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
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  • pa7c70II
    pa7c70II Posts: 3
    Thanks, marvda1!
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    rikm wrote: »
    thanks tony_b,

    ...and well they sound great...have to say the amp is pretty amazing for the price, even with the relatively low output power next to the chips, the sonics are seriously well defined.

    May have to re-think the old NAD 2200's that run as a bridged pair in the house system, there is plenty of power of course but they sound almost flat next to the tubes... had heard that comment made before WRT the general sound character of some mono-blocs, but didn't credit it before now...can anyone comment on the 'dual mono flatness' thing from experience?

    ...going to have to move a different chipset into place just to see if a single 2-channel amp sounds more lively...or maybe just reconfigure one of the 2200's back to stereo and test it that way...

    Well, first off, most bridged amps don't like impendence dips, they require an 8 ohm load bridged. The 707's I'm sure dip below that. A true dual mono design would have 2 power cords. Nad is a more laid back sound to begin with so that may be what your experiencing. Tubes can definitely add the musicality back in, tone, air, but sometimes can sound slow.....even muddy with some older tube gear.

    Which is why for some, not all though, the preference is a tubed pre with a SS amp. Gives you all that tube goodness and the rhythm and pace/slam of SS.

    I've never heard of a dual mono design described as flat sounding. Bridged amps...yeah. I'll quote old Chris Rock...." Just because you can steer a car with your feet doesn't make it a good idea". More to the point, just because you can bridge an amp doesn't make it a good idea either. Try it in regular 2 channel and see whats what.
    HT SYSTEM-
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  • brianle
    brianle Posts: 572
    looks pretty ... congrats!
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    Silk Audio MS-38, I am considering buying one of these glad to read all the positive as it is close to the limit that I would want to spend
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    cnh wrote: »
    She's a "beauty"! Now if you want to be condemned by the GODS like Prometheus, etc. Drop Brock a line and begin the Sisyphean task of rolling the RIGHT, NO the "perfect" tube! lol

    If nothing else you'll have a few HUNDRED back up tubes and spend 1000s of hours scouring ebay, etc.!

    Enjoy!

    cnh

    6 months later I respond, but better than never!

    I admit, I MIGHT have a SMALL problem...lol. I enjoy the hunt/chase as much as the listening tube rolling provides (I could do without the expense part though). I am also finding "rediscovering" that gem in the collection is just as rewarding.

    Like, "damn, I forgot how good that tube (or tube combo) sounds. I have been on a tear lately buying up mostly mid late 50's-1965 Euro and American tubes. Prices are higher and supply is lower even compared to 6 months ago.

    Have you tried finding any used Winged =C= tubes lately? Those sky rocketed in $$$ as soon as they stopped manufacturing. Glad I stashed them away when I did....lol.

    12AX7/ECC83 tubes have become ridiculously priced, IMO. Euro, long plates are far beyond what I'm willing to pay on a peer to peer transaction.

    Luckily I have been stashing away lots of 12AU7/ECC82's of the Euro variety.

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    Like Bees to Honey.....H9 and tubes. :) Carry on...
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    Like the tide.....Tony..........like the tide.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,451
    edited June 2015
    Im running the 30L & its been sweet. I picked up some other tubes & plan on rolling them. Last week i bought a Fluke mm & i now gotta learn how to use it. Im scared as shat im gonna fry my a$$ or blow the f'n thing up. Running stock tubes still
    ..
    ..
    ..
    Randy/Maine
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    Silk Audio MS-38, is it as good as the Yaqin 100B ?
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • Simplyrandom
    Simplyrandom Posts: 119
    I would think that the 100-B is a step up from the MS38. The MS38 is the same as the 30L which is a el34 based 50 watt integrated amp. The 100b is 60 watt KT88 based amp with independent power supplies for each channel.
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    Yes I thought so, it's a little more than the MS38.
    Is the 100-B still common ground for SDA's with independent power supplies?
    Simplyrandom wrote: »
    I would think that the 100-B is a step up from the MS38. The MS38 is the same as the 30L which is a el34 based 50 watt integrated amp. The 100b is 60 watt KT88 based amp with independent power supplies for each channel.

    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • rikm
    rikm Posts: 23
    thanks tony_b, was thinking about switching the 2200's back to stereo and using a bi-amp configuration with the 707's...pretty sure I did that when first setting them up, just as a test, but they have been in bridged mode ever since...have also been thinking about a tubular pre-amp, the case for it is persuasive I think, but it will have to remain a research topic for now...

    ...and not to get involved in the whole bi-wire thing, but any comments on bi-amped 707's would be welcome...


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  • rikm
    rikm Posts: 23

    good morning Polkieman, I have a 100B also and have only recently tried it out on the 707's...sounds all good as you might expect from the previous test of the MS38, and as was mentioned above it has a bit more power but the real choice should probably be about the power tube...there are various EL34 and KT88 tubes to play with and they can mostly be swapped within family to get different sounds, but there may be problems substituting tubes from different a family...

    ...the significance of that, at least from what I have found in my research on the subject, is that the EL34 vs KT88 thing is more about the qualitative differences between them than just the output power... it is one of the reasons I wanted to get the MS38...my listening room system has a Cayin A100, also a KT88 amp and wanted to have an amp in the other major power tube family...

    ...and the 100B has 2 power transformers but one power cord, so there should not be common ground issue, but that is based only on experience with my stuff, someone with some actual EE knowledge would be a better source...
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    Qualitative differences, when you are finished I would like to know in your opinion should you have the choice of only one. I have heard from a few that most people end up with a 100B. Since the power is pretty close to the same though I would like to get one from Ray here in the US vs the company in Canada and of course the added cost of shipping.
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited June 2015
    cnh wrote: »
    Drop Brock a line and begin the Sisyphean task of rolling the RIGHT, NO the "perfect" tube! lol

    @heiney9
    Brock, your tube recommendations took my 2.5 to new levels of enjoyment. Eternally grateful :)
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
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  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
    edited June 2015
    I have the MC100B * Silk Audio * version -> 60 WPC Ultra Linear & 30 WPC Triode Mode with no remote and a 70lbs behemoth - uses 4 KT88's - 4 6NS7 - 2 12AX7 and yes it sounds very good.

    Now thew MS38 * Silk Audio Version * -> 50W per channel (Ultra Linear mode), 25W per channel (Triode mode). Has a Remote (+) uses 4 6CA7 tubes & 4 GJ1 tubes

    I would think the 50 WPC would be fine and some think the 6CA7's sound better then the KT-88's but I can not say myself that this is true.

    so I would say is the remote worth 10 less WPC then the other ? then I'd go with the MS38. just my 2 cents! --> ordering from a man in Illinois that several on this forum have talk to or chatted via email like myself is a major plus to me.

    many thing to consider.
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
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  • rikm
    rikm Posts: 23
    ...hmmmm, well PolkieMan, not going to touch the whole "when you are finished" thing but voltz's point above is a good one. The remote on the MS38 while not full function is multifunction, it gives you volume control and source selection...a plus I think...

    ...and just for the record, I got my 100B from the guy in Canada and the MS38 from the guy in Chicago...both seem like good guys, but there is shipping cost and the fact that Silk is easier to pronounce than Yaqin...:)

    Now about the qualitative differences between the EL34 sound and the KT88 sound...well that's more difficult, not because there is no difference but because they are both good amps and I think in the category of 'Integrated Amps for under $1000' I'm not sure I could come up with a Final Jeopardy answer that would sound better than getting either one of them...


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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    I really Really appreciate your rikm and voltz reply.
    As far as the Ray and the guys in Canada I have heard nothing but praise for both of them. Why Ray does not have a 100B listed I don't know maybe he considers for most people the MS38 is plenty good and maybe he could not get the sales with the 100b. Or maybe the MS38 is more reliable? Have you guys had any problems with them? The MS38 would be easier to sneak in under the credit card hehe.
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • rikm
    rikm Posts: 23
    ...hmmm, well the 100B is an older design, dates back to when it was the Markhill MC100B, and while it has been tinkered with...it now has a plastic shield over the exposed caps for instance...and there are lots of people who have done lots of stuff to it, so if you are thinking of mods there is guidance out there...

    ...as to problems, the 100B has been a solid performer for me and I don't regret buying it, and I just got the MS38...but I have to admit to really like having the remote control. I have swapped them into and out of the several rooms that I have wired for network sound and neither disappoint...

    Guess I would probably say the MS38 would be a more tempting choice for a first tube rig...as I said earlier, I can't think of a low cost integrated that would yield a better sound out of the box...and then there are the SE vs. UL modes to explore as well as the all the tube options to play with down the road...not sure there's a $600 chipset that would be as much fun...



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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    Thanks rikm as soon as I finish my little Realistic Elac Miracord 40C turntable project I am ready then. Does Ray only sell through Ebay?
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
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  • rikm
    rikm Posts: 23
    Not sure, but he was responsive to all my questions...
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    Thanks again for help and comments everyone.
    The Elac is about an 1 hour from done so..........

    Ray is a very nice guy, eager to answer all my questions. I am going with the Ms38 from him. I noticed on his eBay pictures it doesn't show the cover. Was that extra?



    rikm wrote: »
    Not sure, but he was responsive to all my questions...

    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,549
    edited August 2015
    PolkieMan wrote: »
    Silk Audio MS-38, is it as good as the Yaqin 100B ?

    As far as I know both are Yaqin ........made that is. Ray has made a deal to get his name on them. I bought my CD3 from him real class act.
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  • Simplyrandom
    Simplyrandom Posts: 119
    Mine shipped with the aluminum cage and the plexiglass guard for the signal tubes. There was no additional charge. The manual is very minimalistic however it comes with the tool for adjusting bias and caps for any unused input connectors. The bias points are labeled very clearly not only with polarity but also the desired voltage. The power tubes ship in pvc tubes and each tube is labeled for which socket it was in when initially biased. The signal tubes are already installed. I hope you enjoy your new toy as much as I enjoy mine.
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  • pa7c70II
    pa7c70II Posts: 3
    I'm really enjoying my MS-38, too. Has anybody noticed an improvement by rolling the signal tubes? I have about 250 hours on my unit, and see no reason to change the power tubes, but I'm willing to try some 6J1 equivalents.
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    My Silk Audio MS-38 shipped today, yes I know I am very slow and old too :)
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • michaeljhsda2
    michaeljhsda2 Posts: 2,170
    PolkieMan wrote: »
    My Silk Audio MS-38 shipped today, yes I know I am very slow and old too :)

    What do you think of the amp?
    SDA SRS 2.3TL's
    Silk Audio MS-90-BT integrated tube amp
    Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
    SDA 2B TL's
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    Much better than I expected I got the tube phono preamp from Silk too.
    It's all Glenn's fault!

    michaeljhsda2 wrote: »
    PolkieMan wrote: »
    My Silk Audio MS-38 shipped today, yes I know I am very slow and old too :)

    What do you think of the amp?

    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • michaeljhsda2
    michaeljhsda2 Posts: 2,170
    LOL, cool.
    SDA SRS 2.3TL's
    Silk Audio MS-90-BT integrated tube amp
    Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
    SDA 2B TL's
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