SVS SEALED FOR MUSIC

EndersShadow

ken brydson wrote: »

EndersShadow wrote: »

ken brydson wrote: »

Wasn't Epik the one to go down in flames due to failing amps?

Nope, that was Elemental Designs IIRC... (disclaimer my sub has a diff amp that was proven to be rock steady, too late for the company).

Epik just had a out of stock problem and just closed shop....

My bad, knew it was an "E" name...

No worries man. I still LOVE my A2-300 sub, my room is just too big for it.

aboroth00

EndersShadow wrote: »

ken brydson wrote: »

Wasn't Epik the one to go down in flames due to failing amps?

Nope, that was Elemental Designs IIRC... (disclaimer my sub has a diff amp that was proven to be rock steady, too late for the company).

Epik just had a out of stock problem and just closed shop....

I believe the amps on their subs were going out as well. There was a big hubub a couple months back when Epik was clearing their stock of working Empire subs even though people were waiting on the warranty claim for their sub's amps.

kevhed72

I have received the blessing - of sorts - from the High Priestess of Zule - to purchase a pair of SVS SB1000s. As luck has it, Audio Advisor has Pangea c7 power cables on sale, and I'm working on some DIY speaker cables for the speaker level connections. More to come when I have them up and running....

Conradicles

Congrats! Great choice!

EndersShadow

kevhed72 wrote: »

I have received the blessing - of sorts - from the High Priestess of Zule - to purchase a pair of SVS SB1000s. As luck has it, Audio Advisor has Pangea c7 power cables on sale, and I'm working on some DIY speaker cables for the speaker level connections. More to come when I have them up and running....

If you need a C7 cable, there is a guy on eBay thats been trying to sell his AC-14 C7 cable for like 2 months. LivetoJuggle is his screename.

See what he will do for ya, its a 2m cable if thats long enough.

ken brydson

You won't be disappointed. Congrats!

dpowell

Good idea to get a different power cable. My only gripe with SVS is that the power cables they include are 18AWG cheap cables.

dpowell

My subs are too far from power to get upgraded cables other than getting regular quality long 12AWG power cables. However, I did get these 90 degree right angle adapters from Ebay to clean up the look in the back and reduce risk of damage from the cable coming straight out of the back. http://www.ebay.com/itm/261348110137?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

The other thing I did that you might consider is adding a Monster Power Center. Since my subs are at the back of the room, I have a HTS3500MKII to condition power to the subs. Picked it up cheap off CL.

Polkie2009

aboroth00 wrote: »

EndersShadow wrote: »

ken brydson wrote: »

Wasn't Epik the one to go down in flames due to failing amps?

Nope, that was Elemental Designs IIRC... (disclaimer my sub has a diff amp that was proven to be rock steady, too late for the company).

Epik just had a out of stock problem and just closed shop....

I believe the amps on their subs were going out as well. There was a big hubub a couple months back when Epik was clearing their stock of working Empire subs even though people were waiting on the warranty claim for their sub's amps.

You speak the truth Tonto, Epik was__ having problems with a lot of their amps in the little 12" Legend. I'm not sure if people were overdriving these units thinking they would be able to deliver chest pounding, house shaking bass or what, but most of the plate amps failed. Many complained the plate amp ran so hot they could barely touch it. AVS has a lot of info on this. Also, the Empire subs had some_ amp failures , so it sounded like Chad got a bad run of amps on them. There's a lot of good info on the SVS and PSA subs over at AVS forum along with many others.

Pinktulip7

Why Sub needed for Music or dual Stereo Channel? My RtiA9's are perfect without Sub!!!

ZLTFUL

Personal preference varies from person to person.

You keep asking the wrong questions. Not meant as an insult but the questions you ask come across as you know better than those you are questioning and not as a request for more knowledge or an explanation.

For example, you asked me why I needed a second sub in my dual SVS cylinders thread.

Pinktulip7 wrote: »

why two?One Sub was not enough?

For home theater, obviously, the wants and requirements are different than 2 channel. And I don't do a sub in my 2 channel system (I have a DSW MP2K for my 2 channel but it sits unused almost all of the time).
But some folks like their system to dig a bit deeper than towers can play.
A good example would be to play some of the Telarc pipe organ recordings. These recordings have low frequency extension that your RTiA9s can't even remotely touch at decent volume.

Then you have folks like @EndersShadow who live for dubstep. Again...your RTiA9s can't touch some of the lower frequencies in that genre of music accurately. You may get the upper end of those low notes but the sound reproduction will not be accurate.

It really comes down to what you are listening to and whether or not you want to actually reproduce the recordings accurately.

As you can see in the chart below, a lot of instruments dip below the capabilities even good full range speakers.
A good way to make sure you aren't missing 100% of the musical content is to add a nice musical sub into the mix. 2 allows for more accurate staging (yes, bass notes are omnidirectional but a single sub can unnaturally localize these signals).

EndersShadow

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Then you have folks like @EndersShadow who live for dubstep.

Wrong.... Dubstep lives for ME!

SCompRacer

EndersShadow wrote: »

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Then you have folks like @EndersShadow who live for dubstep.

Wrong.... Dubstep lives for ME!

Skrillex, pipe organs and a closely miked bass fiddle rule!

Yes, I have dual subs in a two channel system. Just cause your speakers measure 25Hz-20kHz +- 1.5dB doesn't mean they are gonna play to 25Hz +- 1.5dB in your room.

Nice chart.

Pinktulip7

Only very few track can go below 30HZ therefore not worth to get second Sub unless you just want to add another Sub into your System!!! And if you do then why buy Floor standing Speakers capable of handling low Bass?

Pinktulip7

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Personal preference varies from person to person.

You keep asking the wrong questions. Not meant as an insult but the questions you ask come across as you know better than those you are questioning and not as a request for more knowledge or an explanation.

For example, you asked me why I needed a second sub in my dual SVS cylinders thread.

Pinktulip7 wrote: »

why two?One Sub was not enough?

For home theater, obviously, the wants and requirements are different than 2 channel. And I don't do a sub in my 2 channel system (I have a DSW MP2K for my 2 channel but it sits unused almost all of the time).
But some folks like their system to dig a bit deeper than towers can play.
A good example would be to play some of the Telarc pipe organ recordings. These recordings have low frequency extension that your RTiA9s can't even remotely touch at decent volume.

Then you have folks like @EndersShadow who live for dubstep. Again...your RTiA9s can't touch some of the lower frequencies in that genre of music accurately. You may get the upper end of those low notes but the sound reproduction will not be accurate.

It really comes down to what you are listening to and whether or not you want to actually reproduce the recordings accurately.

As you can see in the chart below, a lot of instruments dip below the capabilities even good full range speakers.
A good way to make sure you aren't missing 100% of the musical content is to add a nice musical sub into the mix. 2 allows for more accurate staging (yes, bass notes are omnidirectional but a single sub can unnaturally localize these signals).

Great I don't play any track including Pipe organ! So I don't Sub for music!!!

ZLTFUL

90% of all tower speakers are incapable of accurately reproducing below 40hz let alone 30hz.
HUGE amounts of movies produce content that drops below 20hz.

I honestly think you are now being purposely obtuse. If you think your RTiA9s are accurately producing below even 40hz without severe drop off, you need someone with an Omnimic to stop over and open your eyes to how limited even tower speakers are.
If *all* you listen to is a very narrow spectrum of music, no movies and nothing else, then you are golden. But to think that nobody needs multiple subs is a multipurpose system and wants to accurately recreate *anything* in the sub-bass region, you are, at best, fooling yourself and at worst, woefully and helplessly ignorant.

Pinktulip7

ZLTFUL wrote: »

90% of all tower speakers are incapable of accurately reproducing below 40hz let alone 30hz.
HUGE amounts of movies produce content that drops below 20hz.

I honestly think you are now being purposely obtuse. If you think your RTiA9s are accurately producing below even 40hz without severe drop off, you need someone with an Omnimic to stop over and open your eyes to how limited even tower speakers are.
If *all* you listen to is a very narrow spectrum of music, no movies and nothing else, then you are golden. But to think that nobody needs multiple subs is a multipurpose system and wants to accurately recreate *anything* in the sub-bass region, you are, at best, fooling yourself and at worst, woefully and helplessly ignorant.

We are not talking about Movie! Are we? All I can say, you are living in your own World!!!

SCompRacer

Pinktulip7 wrote: »

And if you do then why buy Floor standing Speakers capable of handling low Bass?

Cause then you only need to add some bass, not all of it. Much easier to blend it in. Cause someday they may go into a smaller cubic foot space and not need help. Cause it's not just the lowest frequency, it's them higher ones like the 30Hz to 40Hz that may also need help. Do you want a hint of 30Hz to 40Hz or near the same dB as the higher frequencies for that accurate balance? Cause there are cancellation issues that go on in a room. Different sub placement from mains (further behind) can put the length of the lower frequencies right where you sit, not behind you or way in front of you where you just get hint of it or can't hear it.

Do a room sweep and see for yourself what you get at the listening position for the types of music you listen to. And never ever defend a bad position.

cfrizz

You are free to go without a sub and will never know what you are missing because you CHOOSE not to know which is just fine.

The rest of us will enjoy hearing all the bass from our subs with our 2 channel music that we know our speakers can't reach or is so anemic it may as well not be there.

There are plenty on here who just like you swore that a sub wasn't needed for 2 channel, but then decided just to try it and see. They are now firmly in the sub with music group.

This is no different then the debates that happen when it comes to adding a separate amplifier. Try it and discover for yourself or not. I and others are happily enjoying our systems being properly powered with our amps.

ZLTFUL

Pinktulip7 wrote: »

We are not talking about Movie! Are we? All I can say, you are living in your own World!!!

You're right. I am. In fact, my own little world has a nearly flat in room response from 20hz to 20khz and has usable sub-bass to below 10hz.
40 people also recently voted my room the best audio experience against dedicated rooms with tens of thousands more invested.

If anyone is living in their own little delusional world, it's you, cupcake.
Those who don't know, will never know that they don't know.

aboroth00

Here are a couple facts to contemplate on. The room is dominated at low frequencies (<200hz) by resonances. Your speakers may not be in the optimal place to reproduce those low level frequencies because you have to compromise on imaging and soundstaging. Subwoofers are designed to best produce lower frequencies and can be located optimally to reproduce low frequencies. If you compare a speaker driver to a subwoofer driver, you can clearly see the difference. The subwoofer driver will produce low frequencies with less distortion because it was designed to stay linear in the bass region.

Subwoofers may offer lower extension than your speakers but most importantly subwoofers due to their correct placement may offer smoother frequency response. So this is all theoretically speaking, and you may be hearing distortion and not recognizing it. Also, unless you're measuring your speakers, you have no idea what your frequency response is and how deep your speakers are digging. So basically you like the sound and you making the assumption that you don't need a sub

I have personally measured my speakers and they're flat to 25 hz in my room. Do I need a sub? Probably not if you think that it's all about extension. But do I want a sub? Absolutely. I have two. The dynamic range I get with subs, even more extension, better in room frequency response across a larger area, lower distortion, and the fact that my speakers will never run out of steam makes a ton of difference. This is all contingent on properly setting them up, but I assure you anyone who has heard my system has always preferred the subs and none of them can detect them.

txcoastal1

I have always thought I was a 2 channel, 2 speaker theorist...buy the right speaker for the right room then.....

I attended RMAF 2013 where Wilson had their massive Alexandria XLF paired with their Thor subs. Keep in mind that the Alexandria's have a mid 30's Hz response and I would have never thought there would be a need for a sub.

Wilson played music with and without the subs and I was quite surprised how the sub's improved the quality of tracks giving us a full range spectrum of audio bliss with each track without any fatigue in each range from top to the VERY LOW bottom.

Are the Alexandria's the best speaker I have heard? That's debatable, but this setup was one of the best audio presentations I have experienced.

This experience has taken me to a new level. In approx 2 years my new house will be finished and I will have a 18x24 dedicated room with large speakers and a pair subs to match. The roomed will be tuned acoustically to my exact tastes...can't wait.

txcoastal1

ken brydson wrote: »

Pinktulip7 wrote: »

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Pinktulip7 wrote: »

We are not talking about Movie! Are we? All I can say, you are living in your own World!!!

You're right. I am. In fact, my own little world has a nearly flat in room response from 20hz to 20khz and has usable sub-bass to below 10hz.
40 people also recently voted my room the best audio experience against dedicated rooms with tens of thousands more invested.

If anyone is living in their own little delusional world, it's you, cupcake.
Those who don't know, will never know that they don't know.



We are trying to help you understand real the real world of audio and specs.
Most manufacturers only disclose max specs but do not include the roll-offs

"Until you experience it you may not understand it"

ZLTFUL

Pinktulip7 wrote: »

YOU ARE REALLY DUMB FO' REAL

You're doing a fantastic job of showing who the ignorant one is. Better than I ever could. Keep up the great work.

steveinaz

Those who don't know, don't know that they don't know. I'd explain the many benefits of 2 subs, but I feel my time would be wasted.

Toolfan66

RTi A9's "perfect" without a sub?? Hahahahaha..

I own the RTi A9's and as they are a great speaker they are not perfect especially for music, great Home Theater speakers though, and with a sub...

dpowell

next thing you know, he will call up the customer service reps at SVS and ask them for a recommendation and then proceed to tell them he doesn't need their subs.

Pinktulip7

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Pinktulip7 wrote: »

YOU ARE REALLY DUMB FO' REAL

You're doing a fantastic job of showing who the ignorant one is. Better than I ever could. Keep up the great work.

Thx for the info!!!!You did great so far no regret............

WLDock

Pinktulip7 wrote: »

Only very few track can go below 30HZ therefore not worth to get second Sub unless you just want to add another Sub into your System!!! And if you do then why buy Floor standing Speakers capable of handling low Bass?

Many 2 channel listeners are absolutely fine with capable bookshelf speakers or lightweight floorstanders in their dedicated systems. A sub or two is a matter of personal taste. Setup is key to getting bass right. When I set up bass level, placement, phase, etc by ear for music I use a simple upright bass track. The Bass Resonance Test, track 44 from the Best Of Chesky Classics & Jazz & Audiophile Test Disc, Vol. 2. Because I've played with upright bass players for years in different settings I know the sound of the bass well. With that tack I can easily tell if the bass is clean and not overly bloated. Heck, I even used this one time to set up my sub for home theater.

However, if you ever get a chance to listen to a high end full range speaker like the Legacy Aeris, the expensive Focal Utopia, KEF Reference 207/2, Sony SS-AR1, and many other world class full range speakers. Most need larger rooms but many will measure flat to 20Hz and below. Listen to some great music with great bass content....not just organ music, action filmtracks, etc..but music you like with good bass content. When you hear clean bass with energy that you can feel it will change your thoughts of a "true" full range speaker. Yours and my Polks have great bass but can't best a musical set of speakers mixed with a couple of musical subs. I would bet the Polk LSiM703's with a couple of well integrated and tweaked sealed 12's will best our RT's, RTi's from 20Hz-20KHz in measured and listening performance.

Adding a couple of good sounding subs integrated correctly can help with the bass clarity presentation of less than capable speakers. In a dual purpose HT/Music system it makes sense that a ver. 2.0 bass upgrade be two capable subs vs. a single more capable sub.

However, one has to do what works for them.