Receiver vs 2-channel Preamp

ambiophonics

I currently have a Yamaha R-S700 in my 2 channel setup using the pre-outs to a carver TFM-35 powering my newly acquired (and heavily modded) SDA-2BTLs. My main uses for this system are listening to vinyl, streaming Tidal HiFi (via Apple TV), Netflix (also Apple TV) and playing blu-rays and occasional SACDs thru the Sony BDP-S790. All of the video connections go directly to the TV and audio goes to the Yamaha receiver. I have a small Fioo D03K DAC that converts the optical output of the Apple TV to analog, and use the bluray stereo analog outputs. It's less than ideal. It would be useful to have digital inputs on the receiver as this would allow me to get the 24 bit audio from bluray, decode the SACD audio with a better DAC and also run the optical output from my TV to the receiver and listen to the sound from OTA broadcasts on the Polks.

So, an ideal solution would be some type of preamp that has digital inputs, including HDMI so I can get the full resolution audio from bluray and SACD. This preamp would also need to have audio decoders built in to process the audio from bluray, SACD, and digital television broadcasts (my TV has no option to output only 2-channel audio and no analog audio out). It would also be nice if the preamp had a built in phono stage and a radio. I ask a lot.

I don't think is device exists and then over the weekend I found an Onkyo TX-SR707 home theater receiver for $35 on CL. It has the dreaded intermittent audio issue, but as of December Onkyo appears to be repairing this problem for free. I cringe at the thought of using a home theater receiver for my 2-channel setup but it would make a lot of things easier.

Anyway, this receiver has decent Burr Brown DACs, will decode HD audio content from blu Ray and SACDs, has a built in radio and phono stage and pre-outs for plugging in the TFM-35. It also has a "pure audio" mode which is supposed to bypass most of the home theater gimmickry.

To sum up this long winded story, I'm curious to what you think about using the Onkyo TX-SR707 in place of the Yamaha R-S700. I could upgrade to a separate phono stage at some point as I imagine the one built in was probably an afterthought.

tonyb

Your using a receiver now so another receiver isn't going to be that far removed. Pre-amps are for 2 channel, HT processors and receivers are for HT and 2 channel. You can't get HT out of a 2 channel device.

Enter receivers, the one box solution. Sq will vary but usually the higher lines are much better overall than the entry/mid line level of receivers.

Don't get why you want to buy a receiver in need of repair. To me that says the product is unreliable, but I guess your just looking at the entry price of 35 bucks. If you can stand the headaches associated with that, then go for it. Otherwise the Yamaha advantage series is up your alley.

In an ideal world, with a system that does double duty, either a HT processor or a receiver plus a 2 channel pre amp with HT pass thru would be the route to go. If funds are limited though and you need the HDMI, receivers are about your only choice left.

voltz

you could sell the 2 channel R-S700 and add a nice AVR like this marantz SR7007 from accessories4less and use your carver for power the 2 fronts (SDA's)
and the AVR can handle the center & Surrounds.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marsr7007/marantz-sr7007-7.2-channel-4k-3d-pass-through-networking-receiver/1.html

just a thought or save the Yama for 2 channel duty only and no TV when you dont need a AVR...but you would need a phono amp for the TT if you go with a AVR

ambiophonics

Well, it sounds like Onkyo is going to repair the TX-SR707 for free including shipping, so I suppose if they follow through on this claim I'll try it out. My new idea is to build a phono preamp to use with my system. I thought that if I built a preamp with a volume control I could plug it directly into the TFM-35. Then if I added an extra set of RCA inputs and a toggle switch on the phono pre I could bypass the volume control and select the alternate input which would route the preamp output of the 707 directly to the carver, basically home theater bypass but just built into the phono pre. Is this crazy? Perhaps it would be simpler to just build a passive a/b switch with a nice volume pot and bypass switch.

tonyb

I don't think you can route a line level preout from the receiver thru the phono pre. You can take the output of the phono and run it into the receiver, set it to pure direct and it will just pass thru.

Anything run directly into the amp will need 2 things. One...enough line voltage to run the amp properly. Two....a volume control. Maybe 3....impedance matching the output of the phono to the input of the amp. Things to consider if your building your own.

I would just buy a phono and route it thru the receiver and it's own volume control. Taking everything into consideration, don't think you'd gain much doing it the other way, and it could possibly sound worse. Unless of course you plan on building one heck of a phono.

voltz

A Parasound P-5 has everything you want...HT bypass and a built Phono amp & Headphone amp and DAC. Paired with a AVR would do both HT & 2 channel really nicely.... give you a idea of what you maybe looking to build.

ambiophonics

Wow, that P5 looks great, I see there is one for sale in the flea market but it's a bit out of my budget currently.

voltz

Have you look at the Bottlehead kits for DIY? you have options just keep looking till you find what is right for you and your budget!

ambiophonics

Now all that's going through my head is what I could sell to fun the purchase of the P5! lol

EndersShadow

ambiophonics wrote: »

Now all that's going through my head is what I could sell to fun the purchase of the P5! lol

I've heard there is a black market for kidneys and livers out there.....

ambiophonics

Haha, well I'm not at that point yet. I suppose I could try and sell a few things sitting around that aren't being used to help fund a "real" purchase.

tonyb

ambiophonics wrote: »

Haha, well I'm not at that point yet. I suppose I could try and sell a few things sitting around that aren't being used to help fund a "real" purchase.

Now your talkin'....if it ain't nailed down, sell it. lol

ambiophonics

Do you guys think there would be a large difference between the TX-SR707 with and quality external phono pre and the P5? Basically, so we think the receiver when in "direct" mode would still deter noticeably from the audio quality? Power would be provided by the TFM-35 in both scenarios.

tonyb

The P5 is heads and shoulders above a receiver for sound quality.

It's not so much that a receiver with an added phono would deter from the sound quality, just that dedicated pre's are usually simply just better. A receiver is pretty much a jack of all trades, master of none. I'm not saying you can't get good sound with a receiver, just that better sound doesn't cost an arm and a leg more.

WLDock

Differences can be heard between a midline AVR and a top of the line unit....even in DIRECT mode. I heard it with my own ears. Going with hi performing 2 ch gear can make things even better and push the system towards that Hi Fi sound that you seek.

Trying to get there myself after about a two decade long hiatus. Settled for basic rack AVR's over the years because the sound I seeked and heard back in the 90's cost about $10K+. I actually shied away from it and got into car audio because I thought it was cheaper and I was more on the go. Empty pockets then and empty pockets now but I have always known a dedicated high performing 2 ch is the truth in sound reproduction. Will get there soon...now that the HT is almost to where I am OK with it. On to a dedicated 2 ch system.

Go for the P5! Things can only get better,

voltz

Though the P-5 would be a better sounding solution, you could see about getting a inexpensive Phono preamp for now and then when you more ready upgrade to the P-5 and sell the phono preamplifier. I had 2 extra phono amp's but I gave them away already.

here is a link in case you looking to go that route.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=74&val=1

halo

I used an HK AVR 340 as my pre/pro for a few years after dismantling my dedicated 2-channel and combining pieces to make a very respectable 2-channel / HT.

I still have most of the components, but they are in the "audio closet." Because I live in an apartment now, I can't really enjoy a hi-fi experience,or an HT experience for that matter without issues.

I Will say that the combo set up that I had worked very well and that, while not perfect, was still very enjoyable.

Good luck!

ambiophonics

Update:

The receiver is back in my hands and repaired, all for free! Onkyo shipped me a return box and then paid shipping both ways to get the amp to their service center. I shipped the amp back to them Monday and I got it back Thursday! That's quick. Everything seems to work well and I have it setup in my system. I tried the built-in phono pre but it leaves a lot to be desired. I'm trying to sell a few things on CL to fund the purchase of the Bugle II Kit.

nooshinjohn

Grab this one and find out for yourself just how good two channel can be.
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/165212/for-sale-dodd-audio-mlp-preamp/p1

ROHfan

About a year ago I bought a used Mapletree tube preamp with home theater bypass and couldn't believe the profound difference it made in the sound. I knew my Oppo 103 had a decent DAC in it but I never realized how much good sound was being robbed from me by my HT AVR.

voltz

I pick up a Adcom 5503 to power my front 3 speakers,, then I thought what would this amp sound like with a 2 channel preamp? that is when I forgot to tie a rope on before I fell down the rabbit hole...
I bought a Vincent preamp and love listening to 2 channel music...then I got the Vincent amp to go with it and I almost never listen to music thru my HT setup except blu-ray or SACD's audio in 5.1...

tonyb

ROHfan wrote: »

About a year ago I bought a used Mapletree tube preamp with home theater bypass and couldn't believe the profound difference it made in the sound. I knew my Oppo 103 had a decent DAC in it but I never realized how much good sound was being robbed from me by my HT AVR.

Exactly....you don't see those mapletree's come up for sale too often. Nice solid pre's at a decent price.