New Arrival has unexpected side effects

halo

Greetings,

I recently purchased a new LG 42PN4500 42" Plasma TV for the bedroom, which is replacing a Toshiba 32C120U 32" LCD TV.

I had a small stereo hooked up to the 32" TV that sounded pretty good when watching movies (I could also connect an iPod or my Smartphone for music). It was very basic; From the analogue audio output on the back of the Toshiba to an RCA Y-cable terminating in a 3.5 headphone jack that plugged into the input on the back of a Sonic Impact T-amp, from the t-amp to a pair of Polk R15s.

It wasn't fancy but it did the job for watching movies with more oomph than the built-in speakers on the TV. I live in an apartment, so I don't want anything too crazy. Unfortunately, the new LG TV only has an optical (toslink) digital output.

After a little research, I discovered that I needed a DAC that would decode 5.1 audio from my Over The Air antenna and convert / output the signal to analogue RCA, where I'd use my Y-cable to feed the signal to the SI T-amp.

I purchased this DAC from Parts Express and, after getting everything connected, I was quite disappointed with the sound quality.

I have to turn the volume up much higher now and the sound that is produced is pretty thin to my ears.

I've gone through all of the audio settings on both my TV and my BRDP, and I've made minimal gains.

So, now I'm wondering what my next move is going to be with my attempt to get decent sound out of this LG TV.

The LG TV is not wall mounted (and that isn't really an option) so I don't want a sound bar. Like I said, I live in an apartment so I'm not looking to get a 2.1 set up with a sub; I just want to get better sound with a little more oomph like I had before when I had the smaller Toshiba LCD with the analogue audio output connected to the t-amp.

After a bit more research, I am now considering something like a Sound Base, either from Sony, Onkyo, or Boston Acoustic.

While I'm concerned that they aren't going to put out enough sound in the low end for me (I don't want subwoofer low end, but I'd like something that can get down around 60Hz or lower without cranking the volume up too high), my options, at this point, seem limited. Thankfully, these three candidates got good reviews on CNET and they are within my budget (The Sony is pushing the limits of my budget).

I was also considering the use of my HK AVR 340 as a pre/pro and using the pre-outs for the FR & FL to feed the speakers but this is in a bedroom and space is tight. I also have to consider the WAF.

If anyone out there has any helpful advice, hints, tips, tricks, or knows what equipment would best suit me needs (which can be what I listed or something else as long as it's under $230) please post replies.

Thanks in advance! Much appreciated!

rpf65

Accessories4less has a Yamaha r-s201 for $120 that will probably work for you.

rpf65

Forget the Yamaha, no toslink. Maybe the Onkyo HT-R290 for the same price. assume you need HDMI, so probably will have to get a 5.1 AVR.

If you don't need HDMI, look at stereo receivers.

cnh

Are you saying that the new TV has NO R/L audio out? That's hard to believe but I haven't checked out the latest models.

Also, most cable/digital boxes have an analog audio out as far as I know so why can't you run this to your T-amp?

Either way, the TV or the BOX can down mix to a 2.0 signal and you'd keep your set up as is! If I'm wrong then see below:

If you're concerned about size, get a SLIM PROFILE MARANTZ NR1403 (5.1) or the new NAD D-3020 (2 channel toslink, coax).

http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&SubCatId=&ProductId=NR1403

http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/D-3020-Hybrid-Digital-Amplifier

cnh

gudnoyez

http://www.zvoxaudio.com/divinity-cart/item/4004201/zvox-audio-soundbase.420/1.html

I recommended one of these on another thread only the bigger one for a 70 inch tv earlier today this one is well worth the purchase and would meet your budget with good results own the 555 model could not be happier with it in our bedroom with a 42 inch Sony check one out you will be surprised. It is backorderd that don't surprise me.

msg

I just checked out the specs on your tv - to confirm, there's no headphone jack, either, correct? I used this before in a similar fashion as to how you had it set up with your Toshiba.

and you've played with the optical output settings in the tv, as well? if I remember correctly, on my tvs, there were a couple of different options for the optical out, and another option for leaving the tv speakers on or not. on one of the tvs, I would get more robust sound with this option on or off, can't remember which at the moment. I think it was tv speakers on, even though they were turned all the way down. you might try that? presuming you always controlled the volume with the t-amp?

did you do the software update, too? I know most tvs automatically prompt you for this, but if not, might be worth a shot. looks like there was one on 7/2014?

tonyb

Use this, slide it under the BDP, get rid of the t-amp.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ele/4807300770.html

treitz3

That bites halo. If it were me in your situation, I would return the TV. Since it's not me in your situation, I would try to contact LG to see if they have an upgraded TV that has another option for audio outs within your $230 budget. Ask the tech department at LG if there is anything that could be done to improve the output of the optical in order to get "normal" output. Perhaps tell them that the optical out isn't up to snuff and it needs repair under the warranty.

I went through 3 TV's in my house before I found the right recipe for success.

The only other thing I can think of is that the DAC from PE wasn't up to snuff. I believe you can get a DAC from MF, like the V-DAC for within your budget. FWIW.

Tom

tonyb

tonyb wrote: »

Use this, slide it under the BDP, get rid of the t-amp.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ele/4807300770.html

OOPS...I see that suggestion was already presented to you. It is a nice unit for a bedroom though, not really much bigger than a BDP and everything you need in one box.

halo

Thank you all for the responses thus far!

To answer some of your questions...

I cannot connect my LG TV to a cable box / dish / directv because I'm only using an OTA to receive HDTV broadcasts. For movies, I just use the built in wi-fi to access netflix, amazon, youtube, etc.

Most of the newer TVs are not including an analogue / headphone output and are only providing an optical / toslink audio out.

@treitz3 - Since they have stopped producing Plasma TVs, I'm not likely to return it as I love the picture quality of a Plasma TV over that of LCD or LED. Plus, this LG TV is the third TV in the house that was to replace the 32" Toshiba LCD.

The first TV in the house was a Sony KDL40R380B which featured a headphone output. Sadly, the PQ was not good. The colors were over saturated and exaggerated. I gotiton sale for less than $300. Next was a Toshiba 40L2400U that featured an optical audio out only, which is where I started experimenting with the solution to the problem I'm having now with the LG. The PQ on the Toshiba LED was much better than Sony LED and the colors were much more accurate, but the Toshiba had a dead pixel in the lower left section of the screen, so it went back. I got the Tosh for $330. Both of the LED TVs exhibited significant amounts of pixelation and artifacting in the images on the TV. This was more prevalent on the Sony than it was on the Toshiba, but they both had issues with that and motion blur. The LG Plasma, much like the Panasonic Plasma in my main room, doesn't suffer from any of these issues. Surprisingly, the LG is in the same price range as the LED TVs were, so, this was an easy decision for me to make. The last two TVs had the best PQ, the LG being the best overall, but both the Toshiba & the LG have only the optical audio output.

I looked into a lot of different DACs that decode the 5.1 signal received from the OTA antenna, which is Dolby Digital 5.1, and breaks it down to a 2 channel stereo signal. A "regular" 2-channel DAC won't produce sound from the TVs output. Of all the options I had, they all report similar issues in a loss of audio quality / sound level by going through the 5.1 DAC to a "Legacy" stereo system.

@tonyb - I cannot use a full size component like that slim line Marantz in the bedroom. Space is too tight.

@msg - The LG is not a smart tv, nor does it have wi-fi. When I visited the LG website, there was no software update, just the manuals and specs and energy consumption info.

@gudnoy - the zvox units will not work for me as they do not have a built in Dolby Digital converter, and all OTA HDTV broadcasts are in 5.1 Dolby Digital.

@cnh - Thank you for your suggestions. The nad looks to be a great product but it is out of my price range. I'm wonderingif it can decode 5.1 DD to 2-Channel analogue? I did find this: Teac, which is similar to the nad but, again, it is slightly out of my price range.

I guess that the analogue outputs on the backs of the TVs are becoming a thing of the past because people are more likely to use an HDMI or a digital (coaxial or optical) cable with more modern soundbars and sound bases?

I was surprised to see that most of the newer AVRs that I looked into lack pre-outs for all the channels. Even more surprising is the amount of AVRs featuring spring clips for connecting speakers. My $30 t-amp has spring clips but that was only $30 and the whole case is made out of plastic. If I was to pay big bucks for an AVR, I'd expect more, and better, connectivity. That's just my $0.02. Also, I cannot use an AVR in the bedroom as there really isn't any room for it.

My TV is currently sitting on top of a long dresser. With the Sony BDP under the TV on the left side and the SI under the TV on the right side. The bookshelf speakers sit on the right and left sides of the TV, respectively.

halo

Above are some images of my set up and images of the available connections on the back & side of the TV.

halo

Just to clarify, I use the built in wi-fi on the BDP to access netflix, amazon, youtube, etc. The LG is not a "smart tv" with built in wi-fi.

halo

FWIW - The dimensions of my BDP are: 10.4"W x 1.7" H x 7.8"D

The dimensions of the Marantz are: 17-5/16"W x 4-1/16"H x 14-9/16"D

I'd have nowhere to put the Marantz on top of the dresser becasue the TV and the speakers take up all the available space.

msg

halo wrote: »

@msg - The LG is not a smart tv, nor does it have wi-fi. When I visited the LG website, there was no software update, just the manuals and specs and energy consumption info

hmm. it may not contain any profound updates, but there does appear to be a software update for the unit released on 7/24. not sure what it could contain if it doesn't have apps built in (I prefer standalone anyway), but it may be worth checking out. I had to double-check the model number you provided to make sure I hadn't made a mistake, but I think this is your tv? check it out here, and click on the Software Update link. there are instructions for updating. I imagine it will require a USB thumb drive. might be worth a shot?

http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-42PN4500

rpf65

Marantz has a desktop that may work for you. The M-CR610 is 11.5 W x 4.4H x 11.9 D. Has built in CD player, and a little expensive.

Can't really think of any other manufacturers with anything other than small height.

TNHNDYMAN

Why could you not place the TV on top of the suggested slim line Marantz?

halo

Thanks for the continued input.

@msg - I'll look into the update, thanks

@TNHNDYMAN - The LG TV weighs 43 lbs, so it's probably too heavy to sit on top of the unit. Furthermore, I wouldn't want to block the ventilation holes / slots on the top of the Marantz.

msg

halo wrote: »

@TNHNDYMAN - The LG TV weighs 43 lbs, so it's probably too heavy to sit on top of the unit. Furthermore, I wouldn't want to block the ventilation holes / slots on the top of the Marantz.

along the lines of Handyman's idea, if open to something like that Marantz, would you maybe also be open to building a small stand/cubby under which to slide in a slim AVR, and put the tv on top? With a 1x6 or 2x6, some nice ply, screws, and maybe a couple of brackets, you could elevate the tv 5-7", and put a slim AVR under? That should offer some ventilation on an AVR that's not over the top. If no access to the tools, one of us or perhaps someone else you know could pull something like this together pretty easily for you. Then, you could finish it to match better, if you liked, and slap some felt under it so it doesn't marr the top of your dresser. Just another idea. Or there may even be something prefab out there already.

Maybe a small 4-post wire shelf?

msg

I just did a quick search on Amazon for "tv riser" and came up with a few different prefab ideas. I'd definitely go this route as opposed to building something, unless you're really into that sort of thing.

check it out. there's even this nice glass one that's actually from Monoprice for $32. says it supports up to 66lbs. other search terms, maybe, "monitor riser" or "media riser"
Amazon Search results for "tv riser" - http://amzn.to/1GIIq81

Page for this - http://amzn.to/1GIIkNC

TNHNDYMAN

^ I was about to suggest the same thing. I've built my own out of 1x4 and made the sides 1 1/2 taller than component and 5" wider to give enough ventilation. Even a heavy plasma would be fine on something similar.

halo

@msg - yes, that will work and I already have a glass audio rack stashed at my folk's house along with my old HK 340. That solves the space issue by building it up vertically but I'm not sure about the WAF. Too many electronic components in the boudoir isn't cool.

halo

So, now that part of the equation has been "solved," that frees up funds that can toward replacing the R!5 bookshelf speakers that were damaged during the move a few years ago.

I will start a new thread on that topic.

Sincere thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute to this thread. I really appreciate your assistance.

cnh

That Marantz is available for $249 refurb at A4less.

That's got to be close to budget, no?

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marnr1402/marantz-nr1402-slimline-5.1-av-receiver/1.html

Darn! Your TV does have very few input/outputs. It really is the age of HDMI!

cnh

msg

Happy to be part of the collaboration! This is what it's all about, eh, kicking around a few different ideas, getting it worked out?

Nice HK, btw. I like the vintage stuff.

halo

@msg - vintage? lol. I got that unit refurbished, from their eBay store, in '03? Weighs a ton but it works fine and its got pre-outs for all channels. Darn thing even has its own cooling fan.

Speaking of vintage, I still have the vintage Technics receiver, circa 1978, that I won in a holiday giveaway contest from @dorokusai. It is still working just fine and it is pulling 2-channel duty in the living room.

msg

really?!? the HK340? I looked it up and it looks like something outta the 70s!

see, now you're talking that Technics is more what I thought your HK was.

halo

The Technics has a very warm sound, but I believe that the midbass is somehow accentuated, even though all the tone controls are at 0 and so are all the other available embellishments.

On the other hand, the HK is very clean, reproducing only what it is given without coloration. It worked very well as a preamp.

halo

I ended up going with the Marantz 1402 thanks to @cnh and his posting of the lowered price at accessories4less.

I used one shelf from a StudioTech HF-4 that I already had, but wasn't using, to accommodate the Marantz's being placed under the TV. I wanted to use the 4" legs but I ended up going with the 7" instead, so that I could give the AVR some room to breath vs the cleaner look (the 4" legs with the feet would give me about a 1/2" of space on top of the AVR, but the AVR runs a little too warm for that small amount of overhead clearance).

It sounds good the way it is, running through the Marantz. Unfortunately. I cannot have the TV's volume up/on at the same as the time as the AVR, or I get an annoying echo. Someone on a different forum (AVS?) said it is because the receiver has to decode and convert the digital signal to analogue, and the decoding is what is behind the delay vs using a direct analogue output from a TV (which I don't have). Now it doesn't sound "thin" like it did when I was using the Parts Express DAC to the SI.

I will definitely try the SI through the pre-outs on the Marantz at a later date.

Again, thank you to everyone who chimed in and helped out

gp4jesus

msg wrote: »

...nice glass one that's actually from Monoprice for $32. Page for this - http://amzn.to/1GIIkNC

Love one of these w/legs between 8.5-9" thanks for the tip

gp4jesus

halo wrote: »

...StudioTech HF-4 that I already had... ...going with the 7".

How can one of these w/9" legs?

halo

@gp4jesus - the legs from Studio Tech only come in three different lengths at 4" 7" and 11"

A different manufacturer might have different sizes available.

I used to own a VTI rack that was quite nice. LINK or LINK