speaker connection: banana vs spade

mrloren

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Hmmm....and then what happens with these new connectors if you don't like the cable ? Take them off....re-sell the cables...stick the connectors in a drawer where they'll spend years collecting dust ?

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use them on the next cable

F1nut

You can lead a horse to water, but.......

westmassguy

They other half of the equation, is the post. The Nakamichi and GLS Banana Plugs that I use, don't fully insert into the older Polk Binding Posts, and many other OEMs. They're not deep enough, so the plug doesn't fully insert, and it moves around easily. Cardas and other quality posts are deep, so even the non-locking plugs feel much more secure. A lot of OEMs also use plastic nuts, which can crack or strip if over-tightened, so the forked spade is rendered useless.

tonyb

mrloren wrote: »

Hmmm....and then what happens with these new connectors if you don't like the cable ? Take them off....re-sell the cables...stick the connectors in a drawer where they'll spend years collecting dust ?

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use them on the next cable

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....that will most likely come with connectors on them already, gotcha.

Just trying to save ya some coin bro is all, carry on.

BlueFox

I didn't realize how difficult it is to hook up a speaker.

One Friday night, I am drinking beer and listening to music. Later in the night, when I am nearly asleep, the right speaker dies. I wake up, turn everything off/on, but no change. So, I went to bed. Later that day, I am swapping cable connections on the gear side with no effect. At that point, I realized the problem was the speaker cable broke, so I started to replace it, and then saw the positive spade popped off the speaker.

tonyb

BlueFox wrote: »

I didn't realize how difficult it is to hook up a speaker.

It isn't....but questions were asked, you know how it goes.

Yeah man, spade popping off the post....has happened to me too. You really have to crank down on the nut depending on the spades you use....weight of the cable.

Lietuvis91

I've had both, went back to the purity of using neither. Raw cable baby!

tonyb

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

I've had both, went back to the purity of using neither. Raw cable baby!

You mean the purity of oxidized copper ?

Just bustin' balls bro....use whatever floats your boat, the sun will still come up tomorrow.

Lietuvis91

HA!

My experience tells me pure bareback has the most intoxicating results and definitely the best sounds! Though I suppose different kinds of "plugs" can enhance the experience, I find they're not for me. :-P

Lietuvis91

TONY, jokes aside, I did notice discoloration on the bare wire when I was swapping speakers yesterday. Are you suggesting this can have a noticeable impact in sound Q?

I never thought about that.

How would the plugs prevent that though? It's not like once you put a plug on the wire, you somehow vacuum seal it, so the wire is still exposed to the air and elements, maybe just a good bit less? Curious what your thoughts are on that.

tonyb

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

TONY, jokes aside, I did notice discoloration on the bare wire when I was swapping speakers yesterday. Are you suggesting this can have a noticeable impact in sound Q?

I never thought about that.
.

I hear Angels....do you hear them too ? LOL

Yes pal, oxidized copper can and does have an impact on the sound. Not saying don't use bare wire, just that periodically you have to clean up the ends is all.

The DIY'ers will chime in, but most use some sort of shrink wrap around the edges by the connectors with a rubber sleeve over it. I'm not a DIY'er, I prefer my cables made with everything covered already.

Lietuvis91

Cool beans, thanks! I will have to go home and strip a new end on the wire so that it's clean, as right now there was some significant discoloration. Makes sense as that wire is 3+ years old. Curious to see what kind of difference that might produce.

tonyb

Stripping new ends is one way...if you have the excess wire to do so. Most use some sort of contact cleaner like Deoxit....but wait for it to dry before hooking it back up if you go that route.

Mystery

DeOxit and some cotton wool to scratch/swipe the ends.

As nasty as it looks, I don't think the sound quality degrades that bad unless it's really bad with dusty oxidation powders everywhere.
Most of the green haze is on the exposed bare wire, not directly under where the screws are pressing on.
It's easy and fast to clean so doesn't make sense to use it like that though.

I have old 10 awg Monster cables that are green all the way through and hooked them up to see if they work. I can't tell anything different compared against the Acoustic Research cables.

Lietuvis91

This is monoprice 12g cable. It's getting the chop! Screw cleaning it...

Lietuvis91

But I do appreciate the cleaning suggestion. I'll take that route with the audioquests I have.

F1nut

I have old 10 awg Monster cables that are green all the way through and hooked them up to see if they work. I can't tell anything different compared against the Acoustic Research cables.

Doesn't bode well for the AR cables.

F1nut

How would the plugs prevent that though? It's not like once you put a plug on the wire, you somehow vacuum seal it, so the wire is still exposed to the air and elements, maybe just a good bit less? Curious what your thoughts are on that.

Solder those connections.

Mystery

F1nut wrote: »

I have old 10 awg Monster cables that are green all the way through and hooked them up to see if they work. I can't tell anything different compared against the Acoustic Research cables.

Doesn't bode well for the AR cables.

Yes but tried few other ones from MIT, ProConnect and some 14 awg roll I had.
I'm not saying they don't make difference but nothing was noticeably different in my budget system.
If I measure with some sound equipment, I assume there will be differences between all those different types of cables.
The old monster cable is still intact, nothing breaking off due to oxidation, just green haze layer on them where they are in contact with the insulation inside.

tonyb

Yuck.....throw them out, worthless in my book. As far as the AR cables go, I believe they are cheapo's rebadged for them, so I wouldn't expect anything of any consequence from them anyway.

Mystery

tonyb wrote: »

Yuck.....throw them out, worthless in my book. As far as the AR cables go, I believe they are cheapo's rebadged for them, so I wouldn't expect anything of any consequence from them anyway.

What do you think about the new wires from Monster?
I think Monster still honors lifetime warranty and replaces the wires that have gone green.
I have around 4 pairs of Monster 10 awg cables that I can replace.
I just have to pay shipping to them.

mrloren

If I don't like the connectors I take em out for target practice at the range. If you can hit a POS banana plug @ 100 yards and have fun with them.

I am sticking with my GLS locking plugs for now, they have served me well, I got some of the cleaner to get them nice before I put them on the Furez cable. One thing I am going to try is only hook up one speaker with the plugs and run another bare back and see if there is any difference.

tonyb

Monster.....imho anyway, doesn't make a decent sounding cable, period....at any level. Your way better off with Signal cable/BJC for entry level cables.....even Canare is miles better.

got 70 bucks ?

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649163325-signal-ultra-speaker-cables-9-ft-pair/

or 120 bucks....with free shipping yet.
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649161607-morrow-audio-speakers-cables/

or 100 bucks....and will take CC's
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649079218-transparent_music_wave_8_ft_spades/

3 examples....all light years ahead of Monster stuff. I don't want to hear cables cost too much for anyone to experiment with....B.S.

Mystery

So basically not worth paying the shipping to replace them.
I'm looking into wires but need bi-wire spades.
Will come a pair sometimes soon.

tonyb

Bi-wires you say....gotcha, even though I don't know why, but anyway...

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/speaker-mit-avt-1-10ft-speaker-cables-bi-wire-2014-11-17-cables-92551-moreno-valley-ca

Too expensive ? Then how about these...

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/speaker-audioquest-cv-6-10-ft-bi-wire-pair-pre-dbs-2014-12-11-cables-94010-hillsborough-ca

took me all of 2 minutes to hunt these up.

ken brydson

Mystery wrote: »

So basically not worth paying the shipping to replace them.
I'm looking into wires but need bi-wire spades.
Will come a pair sometimes soon.

Why not save some coin and just use some quality jumpers. Here's mine...

Mystery

tonyb wrote: »

Bi-wires you say....gotcha, even though I don't know why, but anyway...

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/speaker-mit-avt-1-10ft-speaker-cables-bi-wire-2014-11-17-cables-92551-moreno-valley-ca

Too expensive ? Then how about these...

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/speaker-audioquest-cv-6-10-ft-bi-wire-pair-pre-dbs-2014-12-11-cables-94010-hillsborough-ca

took me all of 2 minutes to hunt these up.

I've been looking at few of those but you mentioned to use at least 12 awg in another post and these are not even that combined.



It's confusing. I have to shell out that much coin to get thinner cables than what I'm using.
I have MIT in-wall cables that are 14 awg on each terminal making overall gauge of 11 or thicker.

ken brydson wrote: »

Mystery wrote: »

So basically not worth paying the shipping to replace them.
I'm looking into wires but need bi-wire spades.
Will come a pair sometimes soon.

Why not save some coin and just use some quality jumpers. Here's mine...

I'm gonna trust speaker manufacturer on this.
http://vandersteen.com/support/faqs

voltz

My AQ Slate's have the same or better rating as the CV-6, but its not just the size of the wire that counts here in making the music sound better.

Audio Quest says:
All eight of Slate’s conductors are solid. Electrical and magnetic interaction between strands in a conventional cable is the single greatest source of distortion, often causing a somewhat harsh, dirty and confused sound. Solid conductors are the most important ingredients enabling Slate’s very clear sound. Whether a conductor is solid or stranded, skin-effect is a prime distortion mechanism in speaker cables. Slate very simply keeps this effect out of the audio range by using conductor sizes that are below the threshold for audible distortion.

I have learned better cables do nothing to the sound, which is why they are better cables I do believe that how a cable is made and not just the Size of the wire that is important. this is why I want to try some AP hollow ovals as they got me so curious of the sound and I been edging towards this for over a year.

F1nut

Mystery wrote: »

I'm gonna trust speaker manufacturer on this.
http://vandersteen.com/support/faqs

You shouldn't because it's bull.

Bi-wiring uses two separate sets of speaker cables to connect a single pair of loudspeakers to an amplifier. Coupled with a crossover designed specifically for bi-wiring, it offers many of the advantages of bi-amplifying the speakers with two separate amplifiers without the cost and complexity of two amplifiers.

Any and I mean ANY speaker that has two sets of binding posts has a crossover designed specifically for bi-wiring and also bi-amping. There is nothing Vandy can do to the crossover that makes it any different than any other speaker when it comes to being bi-wire/bi-amp capable, nothing.

We modified a speaker's crossovers to accept two sets of cables and present different load characteristics to each set so that the low-frequencies would be carried by one set of wires and the high-frequencies by the other set of wires. Finally we heard the sonic improvements of bi-amplification with a single amplifier.

That's a load of manure. Each set of wires are still carrying the full spectrum signal to the top and bottom. Using jumpers results in the same thing. It is impossible for the crossover to restrict the frequency spectrum being sent from the amp through the speaker cables. Impossible.

The crossovers in Vandersteen bi-wirable speakers are engineered with completely separate high-pass and low-pass sections.

Again, ANY speaker with two sets of binding posts has completely separate high and low pass sections.

tonyb

Ok...gonna steal yours Jess,

You can lead a horse to water, but....