New Sony AVRs for music only?

felipe

Hey all. Unfortunately, I have to retire my old yammy stereo receiver for it died. I saw that the new Sony AVRs are on sale right now, and I can get the STR DN750 for 249..a bit cheaper than the yammy stereo I was looking at ( R S300 @ 279 ). Granted, the yammy might be better built, but the sony has built in Bluetooth and usb ports...and option for bi-amping for my m50s. all my music is either via Bluetooth or data storage. I was initially thinking to get the yammy along with getting the audioengine b1 Bluetooth receiver. But, cost wise that setup I cannot do. Thoughts?

mrloren

The newer Sony non ES receivers are not bad, they have actually made improvements over the years. I would get the Sony but the bottom line is get the one you like. As for being better built, Sony have been made in Malaysia for years while other manufactures have been bouncing around Asia.

tonyb

I think we've covered bi-amping with a receiver about a million times already so I would encourage you to dig up some threads on it.

Also, digital computer music plugged straight into any 300 buck receiver just isn't going to sound good for anything other than casual or background music/listening.

If 300 bucks is around your budget, buy a higher end used receiver at least, your musical enjoyment will increase greatly.

felipe

I researched the new sonys, and it turns out that some people ran into issues with them...go figure. So, with the approval of the other half, I've extended my budget a little and might just get one AVR for it all. Since I've had a good experience with my current denon, thinkiI'll be upgrading to the 7.2 ch s700w...its within my " extended " budget. Thoughts on this?

tonyb

Way better than the Sony, if it works for you...snag it. Seems like a good price for what you'll get.

cnh

Just get one of these if you want to stream BTooth to your existing receiver. That's my solution. BT is usually "inferior" quality but convenient and this unit is reliable and CHEAP! Logitech Bluetooth Audio Adapter ($29.95) It's certainly not worse than ANYTHING they're putting in current AVRs that offer BT connectivity. Think about it. How much is a manufacturer actually going to SPEND enabling last years model with BT functionality? NOT MUCH! And how much are they going to CHARGE you for that on the NEW MODEL?



cnh

tonyb

His existing receiver bit the dust pal.

cnh

Thanks Tony! Guess I didn't read the entire thread.

Dskip is also right. Get yourself a good integrated amp if you're only going to do music!

cnh

msg

tonyb wrote: »

I think we've covered bi-amping with a receiver about a million times already so I would encourage you to dig up some threads on it.

Also, digital computer music plugged straight into any 300 buck receiver just isn't going to sound good for anything other than casual or background music/listening.

If 300 bucks is around your budget, buy a higher end used receiver at least, your musical enjoyment will increase greatly.

agreed on all this, as well. I stream most of my stuff and do agree that the quality leaves something to be desired a lot of the time, especially with the stuff that streams at lower bit rates. it can be pretty harsh and empty sounding. for me, the convenience outweighs the quality deficiency for the most part, except in extreme cases of poor quality. guess that part's relatively subjective.

I still laugh at myself when I think back to when I thought I could use the bi-amp magic to get more out of my speakers. not ripping on you, Felipe, or implying that you are in the same place I was a year ago when I didn't know anything - just a humorous reflection to a time when I thought I was actually getting the hang of this stuff, and then realized I knew absolutely nothing, and with absolutely no sense of what I was getting myself into at the time, haha

I do still wonder whether I'd have had relatively satisfactory results had I started off with some speakers that didn't make my ears bleed, and trying to make them work for months with different gear before realizing that I'd be better suited with something else entirely. anyway, off topic...

cnh wrote: »

Just get one of these if you want to stream BTooth to your existing receiver. That's my solution. BT is usually "inferior" quality but convenient and this unit is reliable and CHEAP! Logitech Bluetooth Audio Adapter ($29.95) It's certainly not worse than ANYTHING they're putting in current AVRs that offer BT connectivity. Think about it. How much is a manufacturer actually going to SPEND enabling last years model with BT functionality? NOT MUCH! And how much are they going to CHARGE you for that on the NEW MODEL?

I use one of these Bluetooth receivers, too, but mine is by IOGEAR for about the same price. I run it into the receiver over optical. they work pretty well, but I find the range is around 15ft or so before it starts to drop off. I'm curious, however, about some of the music modes in receivers, like Onkyo, for example - they have a Music Optimizer that's supposed to work well to "boost" the stuff lacking resolution? I don't get anything like that in my current processor, but have it in an Alpine deck in my vehicle, and while I know you can't create data where there is none, it does seem to make a difference in "filling in/boosting". I think it's basically just working like an EQ though?

Felipe - yeah man, I hear ya on the reluctance to buy used - I used to feel that way too, but really, there are some tremendous deals to be had out there, and it's relatively safe if you do your homework and try to find gear and buy from reputable sellers. it's a great way to get yourself into some much better gear than you'd have access to if you were to buy only new, so I'm much more comfortable with that now and def recommend going the used route as well.

mrloren

I don't do bluetooth on my ES so I don't know there. I do a lot of DLNA streaming from my PC to my receiver and it works very well. For a Sony AVR I have not used a non ES for over 20 years. My in-laws have a 720 and it seems to be a nice unit, the 840's currently on sale at Costco are nice also. Can't go wrong with Denon either.

tonyb

DSkip wrote: »

Why do you want an AVR for music only?

Budget reasons....and the bells and whistles he also wants. Otherwise I would have sent him down a different path.

The Denon the OP is looking at is certainly going in the right direction over the Sony. Everyone takes baby steps on this audio journey, given what the old wallet allows anyway. In the OP's case, with 4 bones stretching the wallet as is, his choices are limited. No ?

tonyb

DSkip wrote: »

I guess I'm curious what options he really wants. Honestly, I'm thinking a streamer + a vintage stereo receiver could do laps around what he could get new for that price. If you want an all-in-one package, that does limit things. If the OP is OK with components, Much more SQ should be available at similar or even lower cost.

I hear ya bro.....but then you have to add in a dac.....we are talking 400 bucks here total. If you know of a streamer/dac....and a receiver or combo amp/preamp for that price, speak up. Heck, I want to know about it...lol. Plus I don't think the OP is located in this country so his access to variety may be somewhat limited....for used gear anyway.

felipe

I thank ya'll for the thoughts, suggestions and input. I tried out the new denon, and it started to kinda smoke after about an hour!! I'm thinking I got a bad unit..I hope! So disappointed. Needless to say, its going back.

As to answer some Qs, I'm looking for enough watts to power my m50s and BT capability. The BT on my previous Sony Micro system was fantastic..sounded great too..could go clear across the house with no signal drop or break down..thats why I was initially looking at the STR DH750...it fit what I was looking for. For the price of 250..seemed like a good deal.

tonyb

Powering the M50's isn't going to be a problem with pretty much anything. Even old school receivers with 30-50 watts is just as good as todays 100 watt receivers. The way your doing your music though, you need some sort of dac in the mix, be it built into the receiver or a stand alone. Your budget though requires you to pretty much stay in the receiver game for all you need.

The Denon smoked ? Where pray tell are you buying it from ?

The Omni has to get some user reviews and time under it's belt for reliability before I'll suggest it to anyone.

A squeezebox touch has a decent dac built in, add a vintage receiver and you could do it for the OP's budget.

msg

DSkip wrote: »

I guess I'm curious what options he really wants. Honestly, I'm thinking a streamer + a vintage stereo receiver could do laps around what he could get new for that price. If you want an all-in-one package, that does limit things. If the OP is OK with components, Much more SQ should be available at similar or even lower cost.

tonyb wrote: »

Powering the M50's isn't going to be a problem with pretty much anything. Even old school receivers with 30-50 watts is just as good as todays 100 watt receivers. The way your doing your music though, you need some sort of dac in the mix, be it built into the receiver or a stand alone. Your budget though requires you to pretty much stay in the receiver game for all you need.

The Omni has to get some user reviews and time under it's belt for reliability before I'll suggest it to anyone.

A squeezebox touch has a decent dac built in, add a vintage receiver and you could do it for the OP's budget.

I set up like this from time to time when I'm testing stuff, and I'm always pleasantly surprised at how good this can sound. even just with an old iPhone and headphone/RCA cable. I've also done it with a Squeezebox Touch with the analog outs. when I was having the trouble getting settled with my first pair of speakers, the RTi10's, the smoothest sounding setup I came up with was the Squeezebox connected to an early 90's B&K MC-101 preamp and EX-442 amp. second place went to an old Realistic STA-84 receiver with 25 wpc. I couldn't even match this with Pioneer SC-75 or Marantz 700x (can't remember the specific model, but it was one of the upper end consumer ones, comparable to the Pioneer SC line, only without the class D), even with the EX-442 amp connected to each. the speakers were the bad variable in that equation, but the point I'm making is to reinforce this plan you've both mentioned re: grabbing an older receiver and adding a modern streamer. I'm even considering this myself wrt to some used Onkyos I've been thinking about.

DSkip wrote: »

Location issue is reason it took me so long to talk about it. Can't do it now, but a baby Marantz for about $150 and the Polk Omni P1 preamp/streamer for $150 would've fit the bill. I got the P1 and I'm hoping it can live up to its potential.

interesting gear. Sonos competition? where are you planning to use the Omni?
tried reading up a little on them and the info seems a bit scarce?
So...
P1 = preamp?
A1 = amp for the speakers?
and these talk wirelessly?

I'd like to see more info on what the P1 actually does, streaming wise. BT? which streaming services, etc.

always on the lookout for capable streamers since Logitech isn't making anymore Squeezeboxes.

tonyb

Hope it works out for you Skip, but personally I feel the exclusion of the details is telling. No literature on the main site, specs are non existent, and no user reviews. To me anyway, that's a red flag after red flag after red flag.

Used Sonos zp90's go for 2-250, with proven track records....same for Squeezebox Touches.

felipe

Believe it or not, I bought that denon at my local BB. Its going back. I thought that AV receivers have DACs in them b/c of the digital inputs? I researched the denon model I purchased and found out that others who have got this receiver have had the problem. WTH? I think Im gunna research the individual sony AVRs...see if they share the common faults I discovered before..

tonyb

DSkip wrote: »

Not all DAC's are the same. DAC's in receivers, especially entry level units, are usually the worst of the bunch.

Bingo....it's about quality dacs chief. You won't find that in any entry level AVR. Matter of fact, you won't find quality anything in an entry level avr. Which is why most shy away from using them for music.

mrloren

The Sony 850 and 1050 are pretty good. Costco has the 840 for $299. If there is a Fry's near you keep an eye on Onkyo and Pioneer's on sale. Fry's will also price match New Egg and Amazon. Last year a guy picked up a Pioneer VSX-1022 $249 from Fry's.

cnh

The DACs in the old HK 3490 were quite acceptable (and evidently NOT the same ones they use in their AVRs). Not sure if they've been carried over into the newer/lighter models? I've run some pretty mediocre CDPs as transports into the HK and it never sounds bad. Admittedly, it's not the most detailed or transparent sound you would get from a higher end DAC unit. BUT, it also does NOT have that digital glare (brightness) up top! And when you're using a cheaper CDP, that's a HUGE issue!

Of course that does not solve the "streaming" problem!

Just a thought.

cnh

tonyb

mrloren wrote: »

The Sony 850 and 1050 are pretty good. Costco has the 840 for $299..

Seriously my man, we need a definition of "pretty good' from you. lol

mrloren

tonyb wrote: »

mrloren wrote: »

The Sony 850 and 1050 are pretty good. Costco has the 840 for $299..

Seriously my man, we need a definition of "pretty good' from you. lol

kid in college, live in SoCal and those are pretty good for the cost.

Easy to bash Sony non ES gear the receivers and AVR's they made in the 90's and early 2k were just junk. The newer ones are good for what you pay for.

tonyb

A good new receiver for 3 bones....inconceivable....from any brand.

F1nut

tonyb wrote: »

A good new receiver for 3 bones....inconceivable....from any brand.

Agreed. Consumer grade is about price, not good sound.

felipe

following the WAF guidelines lol, I returned the denon and got one of the sony AVRs..the 850. I was reluctant at first, but thru my research on these I decided to try it out. Worse comes to worse I can always return it. So far, its exceeded by expectations...surprisingly. I haven't experienced any of the issues that plagued other onwers of this product. The sound IMO is better with this than with my Denon..

French_guy

tonyb wrote: »

DSkip wrote: »

Not all DAC's are the same. DAC's in receivers, especially entry level units, are usually the worst of the bunch.

Bingo....it's about quality dacs chief. You won't find that in any entry level AVR. Matter of fact, you won't find quality anything in an entry level avr. Which is why most shy away from using them for music.

Does that mean the Dacs on my "old" Oppo dvd player (981 hd) are much better than the ones on my relatively cheap Pioneer VSX920 avr?

cnh

To be fair, Sony has re-engineered its entry level AVRs in the last year or so to increasingly "better" reviews than it has had in YEARS! This along with their new speaker line (which I did not think beat out the A.Jones bookies IMHO).

What does this mean? From reviews it seems to mean that a new Sony AVR is now competitive with an equivalent Onkyo, or so some reviewers say. You can see some minor differences in the new Sonys; they have slightly more robust power supplies/ transformers and larger storage caps, etc. Better processing and so on. The differences are not spectacular but are enough to put Sony back into the mix for entry level receivers (below $500, that is).

So if you like the sound. Maybe it is fine!

cnh

tonyb

French_guy wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

DSkip wrote: »

Not all DAC's are the same. DAC's in receivers, especially entry level units, are usually the worst of the bunch.

Bingo....it's about quality dacs chief. You won't find that in any entry level AVR. Matter of fact, you won't find quality anything in an entry level avr. Which is why most shy away from using them for music.

Does that mean the Dacs on my "old" Oppo dvd player (981 hd) are much better than the ones on my relatively cheap Pioneer VSX920 avr?

Could be, try it and find out. There's more to it than just a dac chip.

mrloren

Sony has been doing good work on their home audio line for the last years. I have a 2004 STR-DA2100ES and a 2012 STR-DA5700ES AVR which are great.

Sony is trying to make a comeback into the market, best way to do that is make a better product. I think they have been doing that.

felipe

I have to agree with u mrloren. I put my 850 thru my movie tests and I'mhearing details in the sound I've never heard when I used my denon. The sound is also significantly more dynamic as well. I think now that audyssey IMO alters the sound too much, whereas the dcac of this Sony does its thing without compromising the true sound of the movie... IMO. Sony did good with these new entry AVRs.

ZLTFUL

kevintomb wrote: »

I think that my MO is to stir the pot anywhere I can and make blanket statements just to see if I can get a rise out of people. I know, I know...this is the very definition of trolling. But I don't troll!