Lsi9 vs LSIM703

F1nut

Perhaps neither speaker is right for you.

[Deleted User]

I used my 703's for headphones for a while and it made my ears bleed and gave me a bad back. F1nut might be on to something.

sheremey

F1nut, rednedtugent: LOL, thanks.

I wanted to make my first post here moderately entertaining, and it looks like I've (slightly?) overdone this...

Seriously, with Lsi9's, despite all the Obvious Technically Inferior Properties (compared to 703), I hear more depth ("3D phenomenon") and more believable, "live" vocals. I wonder if anonymouse's post from Oct 28 meant something similar to my perception. Still, I do hesitate to throw a sizable chunk of money for mods before listening to you, experienced guys

Maybe the best solution would be to sell both of them to hell and invest the money into something that do the "best of the two"??? Any hints? Which brands / models to audition? You may already have some idea what I may want (I want Lsi9's sound to be tighter and LsiM703's sound - which IS "tighter" - to be more "organic")...

Electronics involved: Emotiva XSP-1 Gen 2 preamp, Denon POA-2400A power amp.
Sources: 1) Oppo BDP-83SE; 2) M-Audio Audiophile 193 sound card

The "ear bleeding" with LsiM703 is surely associated more with the computer card as source (dumping it would be an easy answer); still, even with "silky smooth" Oppo this happens from time to time, depending on the record (not necessarily crappy). On the contrary, the sound card match better with Lsi9's, "opening them up". Oppo+Lsi9+classical music = total dull death. And I do listen to classical music a lot!
LsiM703 works with Oppo way better (and even may be harsh! - is it already electronics problem? No, I will not buy a tube amp anytime soon; I'd rather look into speakers that can handle XSP-1 + POA-2400A without ear bleeding).

So, you have the picture. Any smart suggestions? Would X-over modification of Lsi9's be still a reasonable solution?

Thanks!

erniejade

@sheremey With your gear, I am going to say the 9's are a better fit. I had a xsp-1 gen2 for about a month and with my 9's they matched up good. The 9' s are a little thicker sounding while the xsp-1 is a hair on the thinner side. So even though the 703 might be more organic sounding, they might sound harsh when turned up. BTW still love the looks of the emo gen 2 pre.

Also, this is unaudiophile of me but since the emo has tone, have you tried using them? I know a lot will disagree but, the tone on the emo gen2 doesnt completly kill the range and it was slight enough to make a difference. The 9's trebble is sweet in my opinion. If its a hair dull +1 or 2 on the trebble OR -1 on the bass. It could be just out of blanace for your room also so why not give them a shot if you havent.

How far away from the walls are the 9's? Since your using them as headphones, I am going to asume your using them as near field but, distance from the back wall / corners still comes into play.

[Deleted User]

Full discloser I have some new 703's that aren't quite broke in yet so I have skin in the game and want them to win out. Wife said no to the 707's and 705's.
"If its a hair dull +1 or 2 on the trebble OR -1 on the bass. It could be just out of blanace for your room also so why not give them a shot if you havent." This is where
I've kept my vintage stuff since it wasn't vintage. Backed off the bass a hair since adding the tube pre. I'll swing the 703's over to see how they sound w/ tubes RSN.

F1nut

is it already electronics problem?

Having heard both sets of speakers on various pieces of gear I would have to say yes to your question. I did not find the 9's dull or the 703's bright.

gce

I don't know why you say you're getting "ear bleeding" but you my be right about the cause being the computer card. I can't comment on the 9's but I have the RTiA7's with the xo's modified. Before the xo's mods they were very bright and after much better but still not to my liking for music. So I got a the LSiM703's and hooked them up to the same system. They are much better for music than my 7's and not bright at all.

tonyb

The lsim's are the more revealing of the 2 speakers and will no doubt showcase your systems weaknesses. In this case, the computer card, amps, and possibly cables too.

One upgrade begets another.

Lietuvis91

sheremey wrote: »

Hello all,

I was comparing the Lsi9 and Lsim703 in my 2 rooms, with 3 amps and 2 sets of wires for the last 8 months (really). Result? I am deadly confused... I wish everything will be simple and I just stick to newer and better model (everyone agrees, right?) Still, my ears tell me something else. LsiM703 are way more transparent, have way tighter bass, have impressive integrity of all the drivers (I hear very smooth transition and very 'holistic" sound picture)... Still (warning: the craziness comes here!) I don't really WANT to listen to them!!! While Lsi9 sound quite dull in comparison, in a room (the sound dies quickly and is very fragile and easily killable by bad room acoustics), I DO want to immerse in it's sound with my ears up close, I want to dive into that sound, to use Lsi9's as a "huge headphones"... With LsiM703, getting closer to its drivers just kills my ears, it makes them almost bleed... I can see, extrapolate an improvement by X-over upgrade of Lsi9's but I don't really want to do anything with LsiM703's. Please tell me I m crazy. I must have very narrow range of acceptance (stock Lsi9 are too dull, stock Lsim703 are too bright already). Could anyone make sense of my insane observations?

I enjoyed reading your post. I don't think you're crazy. I feel the same way exactly about my lsi9s. They seem far from perfect, but their sound is so soothing, I love listening to them all day. I'm in the market for considerably better speakers, have not heard the lsim703 yet. I have so far listened to a few speakers and feel about many of them them same as you do about the 703, in that they sounds cleaner, more open, but just not a pleasing to my ear as the lsi9.

My point is, I don't think you're crazy, I think you possibly just haven't found the right speaker.

At least I hope that's the case for me, so I'll keep searching.

[Deleted User]

^^^ this if you can. It takes that long from my experience.

Polkie2009

I decided to pass on the Polk Audio family and friends discount a few weeks back. I was looking at some of the 703's , but thought maybe I'd be happy with picking up some discounted used Lsi9's instead. Now, after reading from others experiences with them, I'm not even sure if the Lsi9 speakers are all that good, maybe I should have gone with 703's.

Lietuvis91

Polkie2009 wrote: »

I decided to pass on the Polk Audio family and friends discount a few weeks back. I was looking at some of the 703's , but thought maybe I'd be happy with picking up some discounted used Lsi9's instead. Now, after reading from others experiences with them, I'm not even sure if the Lsi9 speakers are all that good, maybe I should have gone with 703's.

Well, what do your ears tell you?

And what gear are you running them on?

I think sometimes that the LSi9 is a bit of a misunderstood speaker. I don't think it was designed to be run from AVRs or inferior amps. I wasn't all together happy with my LSi9s until I got a dedicated pre and a nice amp to push them, not to mention reasonable quality wire. All of that seems to have me a considerable difference and I really feel like they finally sound like they should, like they were intended to sound.

In the end, the LSi is the senior of this new 70x series. It would be odd for Polk to design the new generation and NOT improve the product.

Polkie2009

I've got a Parasound 1200ii amp I could run them with, I would be using these in a office about 15'x18' size and not playing them at high volume. I've got a Yammie 663 avr I could use as a pre. Most of my listening is off of Youtube or an occasional cd, nothing fancy here. I also have a Adcom 545 amp , but I think it's only 8 ohm rated. Just looking for a decent set of bookshelf speakers and thought Polks like these would be worth trying.

Lietuvis91

That should actually sound pretty darn solid!

sheremey

erniejade wrote: »

@sheremey ... I had a xsp-1 gen2 for about a month and with my 9's they matched up good. The 9' s are a little thicker sounding while the xsp-1 is a hair on the thinner side......

... The 9's trebble is sweet in my opinion. If its a hair dull +1 or 2 on the trebble OR -1 on the bass. It could be just out of blanace for your room ....

....How far away from the walls are the 9's? ....

Thanks for the 3 great points. Indeed, I hear XSP-1's "thinness" with other power amps or my AKG headphones plugged directly to its phone amp. Indeed, Lsi9's complement that and 703's seem to reveal in an unpleasant way.

I played with the tone tweaking, and with 703's the matching problem is so big that sometimes maxing out the controls ( -3HF and +3LF) still leaves the sound a bit thin.... And I am not a "basshead" at all, I do hear and appreciate the difference in every single dB changed... This might be also due to the Supra cables that contribute to the "thinning" phenomenon (but also have positive effect with Lsi9s!)

I keep speakers 2 feets from the wall. While in the living room, they are on heavy Target stands.

With Lsi9, room size / listening position / distance seem to matter A LOT. In my small bedroom, they already sound quite phenomenal (when used as "near-field monitors"). In a larger room, their sound quickly "dissolves in the air". I noticed that if you put hands over the ears making a conical shape to filter out some room reflections, the sound improves *dramatically*. LsiM703 are so aggressive in comparison that room reflections don't seem to matter anymore (or, at least, that much).

tonyb wrote: »

The lsim's are the more revealing of the 2 speakers and will no doubt showcase your systems weaknesses. In this case, the computer card, amps, and possibly cables too.

One upgrade begets another.

Amen

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

.... I feel the same way exactly about my lsi9s. They seem far from perfect, but their sound is so soothing....

Thanks! That is the exact word.

DSkip wrote: »

I'd recommend you quit doing instant changes. Leave the 703 in there for 2-3 weeks.....

Thanks. Yes, I own lsi9 since 2006 and LsiM703 for the last 8 *months*, swapping them between the rooms every 2 months or so... not exactly instant changes. Interestingly, with my low-volume listening, the break-in period seems to be extended quite a bit. I believe it took 2 years or so for my Lsi9's to stabilize their sound With 703's, I still hear how they evolve. The first 2 months or so the soundstage was practically non-existent; all the sound was located in a "fuzzy cloud" of about 2 feet in diameter. Then, during the next 6 months the instruments started to "hatch" from that cloud and emerge as individual entities At the moment, the soundstage of 703's is the same as of 9's.

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

...I think sometimes that the LSi9 is a bit of a misunderstood speaker. ....a dedicated pre and a nice amp to push them, not to mention reasonable quality wire.

Yes, it sounds like consensus that I mainly have component matching problem.
Still, 703's seem to be quite different speakers, not "improved Lsi9s". In the latter case, I'd have no doubts switching. Even if we remove the "thin" components like XSP-1 and Supra wires (replacing the latter with MapleShade's, for example), 703's highest frequencies still bother me as having less of the "fine structure", compared to Lsi9's (the latter seem to have really magical tweeter, I never heard anything like that). Or should I check 703's + tube amp combination?

Summarizing the discussion, I can see 2 possible strtegies:

a) keeping the electronics as is and upgrading Lsi9's crossovers

or

b) swapping XSP-1 for a tube preamp and keeping the 703's...

I can "mentally extrapolate" the effect of the further and still need to audition the latter.

sheremey

...another observation made over the holidays: Supra Quadrax speaker cable was "responsible" for the good part of the "ear bleeding", given the mixture of all the other components. Replacing it with MapleSahe's Helix (single-wiring mode) has immediately brought the system into balance! Yes, we are talking about switch from "HF-3 and LF+3 = StillThinSound" to the "direct" mode in preamp which sounds perfectly balanced! And this is result of ONLY the cable swap... Supra Quadrax is being advertised as "low-induction, low-capacitance" cable, and subjectively this is perceived as "low-end cutoff" effect, compared to other cables. Since "technically" Supra must be more accurate (and I do like what they do for clarity), what needs to be done to keep those and 703's while avoiding the overall "thinning" phenomenon? Puzzled.... By the way, Supra wiring matched with Lsi9's beautifully.

tonyb

Why puzzled ? The 2 speakers are different in their presentation, not such a stretch to think the cabling would compliment one and not the other.

This puts you back into the search for synergy. Like I always say, one upgrade commands another. Try some analysis plus black mesh 12 speaker cables on those LSIM's....you may forget all about the 9's.

Conradicles

Not sure why the LSi9 is conceived as a bad speaker on the ol' Internet's these days...it is a fantastic speaker. Don't believe everything you read. Try things for yourself.

tonyb

Conradicles wrote: »

Not sure why the LSi9 is conceived as a bad speaker on the ol' Internet's these days...it is a fantastic speaker. Don't believe everything you read. Try things for yourself.

I can tell you why....it's because people fail to power them properly. They think because it's a bookie that any old cheap receiver can drive them. When it doesn't sound good from being underpowered, it's the speakers fault. This btw isn't just beholden to LSI's, many other brands suffer the same reviews from people who simply don't power their speakers well enough.

cfrizz

Agreed Tony! I would say 99.9% of people who have good systems are failing to power their speakers properly, because they either don't know what a difference it can make, or they may have been told, but don't want to spend the money that it would cost to do so.

This is why I always recommend that people purchase an amp first and put it on their current speakers so that they can hear what they truly sound like before purchasing new speakers.

If I hadn't gotten the Parasound 1500A in preparation for getting some LSIs I NEVER would have known how good my RTA-8Ts could sound. As a result, I still have my RTAs, and waited for the right amp to come along so that I could put power to all of my speakers!

erniejade

Agree. Besides not all watts are equal. Some speakers like current. The lsi9 is one of them besides the 4 ohm load.

benbvan

Anyone know where to find modded crossovers for all LSiM line?

F1nut

If you mean someone that can modify yours, try westmassguy here on the forum.

benbvan

Thank you.

Hansvelton

Simply put, the Lsi9 has very flat and neutral treble.

The 703 has a boosted high end, by about 3 or so db.
That is seen as more detail.....

Just google the stereophile chart

dromunds

I have LSi-9's, LSiM703's and L200's. With my gear in my space I find each iteration is an improvement. The LSi-9's are a really good speaker. My GF was using them. I sold all my LSi gear and told her that I'd replace them for her. She liked them so much she made me buy the 9s back. I find the 703's are a bit better and the L200 add something to the top end from the 703's. As mentioned above, the 9's won't sound the best without good power behind them, but with good power they are a very nice speaker. The LSi-7 with a subwoofer may be even better than the 9's but then that's with a subwoofer added to the mix.

TroyD

Dead horse....I guess but I always chuckle about the posts that claim a new model is the equivalent of discovering a solar system over the old model.

IMHO, the significant difference between the LSiM and the LSi's were the mid bass........the LSi's were capable of really good clarity, airiness and transparency from the midrange on up through the treble. Further on down, they got thicker and more syrupy. Moreso the LSi9's than the LSi7's (which I think were the best speakers of the line).....and that problem got worse in my limited experience with the towers. I think the LSiM's cleaned that up....plus I think tricked up the treble a bit (not saying that's a bad thing).

Ultimately, I think that you got to listen to judge but I don't think the LSiM was a a revolutionary step forward as much as it was an evolutionary step forward. And the LSiM's are MUCH better looking.

erniejade

On top of what Troy has stated, I feel some of it is also room dependent on what would sound better. In my den, it is a bit bass shy of a room and the LSI9 "thicker and more syrupy" helped overcome the rooms issues and sounded better then the LSIM. If my den was more like my Livingroom that has dead acoustics where bass is no problem but mids and highs get sucked up, the LSIM would have been a better choice. This also held true with the L200 demo. In my den, they did not do well at all but, in my Livingroom, they sounded good using the same T+A integrated amp.

Emlyn

I've had all three series and find them to be similar but not necessarily better than each other. They have a common Polk signature sound but are tweaked to sound a little different. The Legend line is touted as being the "high definition" model. I'd suggest pairs of all three of the big bookshelf models may be used in the same home theater system without significant issues other than the styling being a lot different. To me, the big improvements were in the tower speakers from series to series. Polk got the big bookshelf speakers right every time from the beginning.

TroyD

Agreed with that......