Would like to revisit my XO AGAIN..looking to make a few last tweeks..its been a few years now.

RandyWilliamson

Been happy with my results from the Rd0198 upgrades as well as re-capping my XO w Sonicaps. But I find I am using my preamp to lower the bass some and raise the treble often or enough that I finally took note. I don't have a problem with this im not lazy...but I was thinking that maybe I could revise my current setup.
I got the idea to upgrade to 198s from Fnut and Ben helped me with several other parts including swapping the small inductors to the 22ga ones(i think). The other day I saw a list here that showed that the Monitor 12(rdo198s intended for) use another inductor(the big one)different from the ones my M10's have...so I was wondering if maybe this was overlooked? or is it ok to leave the M10's big inductor in place? and my current arrangement is correct in that respect?

I have to say though that I really do like my bass...and I play a lot of rock U2, police, metallica, audioslave...few times classical or jazz. Sometimes techno. I like my bass. So it's tough to describe what I am after.....I am thinking maybe what I want is slightly crisper midrange and bass...and maybe slightly louder or small sounds even more emphasized on the upper side. I do have to mention that I recall the older peerless or maybe SL2000's seemed to perhaps image better than the 198's but it's a childhood memory and I also do recall at louder volumes they did get screechy. Not regretting but wondering if maybe that's what im looking for. Or maybe I've fatigued my current setup.

I am considering taking the 2-12uf sonicaps and a set of 11uf caps all paralleled totalling 35uf and replace the 12uf pair with another denomination. What do you suggest to go in? Solens, Mundorfs, Jantzen?
Tell me what you think.

If I am crazy and need sda's let me know too. I'd like to go for a set someday but honestly I am scared they won't bass as hard as the M10's and they might have that fake sounding boom/cheap boxy feel. But I could be wrong.

Please let me know about the big inductor being ok with my current setup.

I should mention it is a small room...just short of 15x12. The more I think about it...im looking for a little more precision/sharpness and imaging. Just a bit though. I don't want to give up the great low end M10's have. I know some might recommend smaller sets for this size room...but I indulge volume and walk away to another room sometimes and smaller sets just won't keep up is my thoughts.

RandyWilliamson

Anybody? was wanting to follow up on any suggestions or recommendations. Is 35uf bad what effect should it have.

westmassguy

The 'TL' Mod for the Monitor 10s requires changing the .4mh Inductor to .27mh. The new Inductor is supposed to measure .5 ohms. When added to the 2.7 ohm resistor in series with it, the total DCR for the shunt should be 3.2 ohms. In addition, the 2.0 ohm resistor shunting the 12uf cap should have been changed to 2.7 ohms. The Polyswitch should have been replaced with a .5 ohm resistor. These three Items are critical for proper voicing of the tweeter. All of these will affect the crossover point, slope, and SPL of the tweeter. If your 10s have fuses instead of a Polyswitches, the shunt resistor should have been increased to 3.2 ohms.
The 33uf Dayton cap is most likely the culprit with respect to Bass.
Sonicap has 34uf caps, even though they're not listed. They're binned separately.
They are a bit larger than the Daytons, and will require a riser board, or some other means to mount it.

I would also check that the cabinets are air tight. Any leakage will affect the Bass.

RandyWilliamson

Ok I double checked....my friend Ben on here who hasn't been around lately....I did buy the .27mh inductors from him. The guys did give me good advice I used 2.7ohm mills ...but I did not use 3.2ohms...my stuff sounds good so it would be amazing if any of those were off real bad. I dont remember if I measured the inductor for proper ohms..for sure I recall that inductor was thinner wired.

The 3.2 ohms resistors is news to me I would have to try to find the order to see if maybe a last minute change was done and I used it instead but I dont think so...you think I should change that? I do have external fuses.

What effect would me throwing the sonicaps to total parallel 35uf have?

What might be a step up for the 12uf caps from these I mean? I take it the other big inductor is ok.
thank you.

westmassguy

I don't know whose Inductors you used, but a #22 gauge @ .27mh, for Jantzen comes out to .49 ohms, so you're in the ballpark there.
The Monitor 10 SL3000 Modification was based on a crossover that had a Polyswitch.
Since yours have fuses, the .5 ohm nominal resistance of the Polyswitch should have been added to the 2.7 ohm resistor shunting the 12uf cap. Your 198s are slightly brighter than they should be, theoretically.
I'm not following why you want to parallel two 12ufs and an 11uf, when you can buy either a 33uf or 34uf Sonicap. If it's a space issue, than three 11ufs in parallel could be stacked in place of the 33uf Dayton.
The large spool inductor should be fine, however, a Jantzen Air core of the same gauge and mh value could be installed, but you'd have to rework the entire crossover, with multiple riser boards.

RandyWilliamson

WestMassguy...because I have them so I can save my money for the 4 new 12uf's.
Which way does 35uf lean the bottom warm or lean?
The "new" inductors were original polkies take offs.

So I decided to stop playing my grace audio that streams radio and pandora and go back to cd's... instantly changed everything. So now it seems I can be at lower volume while everything sounds much much better. I think im gonna dump the grace audio in the garbage it's all i've been playing for months now. So I'll have to keep comparing but it looks like the source signal is whats been mucking up my ears. Still tempted to tweek tho.

RandyWilliamson

DSkip wrote: »

If you are referring to Ben62670, he unfortunately passed away a year or so ago.

Sad sad news....great guy...easy to get along with, very knowledgeable. RIP. we're all here such short time. trying to enjoy hifi and life for as long as we can or we go deaf.

westmassguy

I'm still not following you on the 12ufs. You already have 4 spare 12ufs?
Sounds like you found the source of your problem anyway.
The 34uf Sonicaps in the shunt position, will sound better, tighter, or as F1 would so, "Mo Betta Bass"

RandyWilliamson

I would be taking the two 12ufs in the xo now. And adding an 11uf,s i have already all running parallel. Then will buy 2 new 12 ufs of a different brand recommendation. Id be at 35uf though not 34...what is the effect 1 more uf has? However slight it may be.

Schurkey

RandyWilliamson wrote: »

I should mention it is a small room...just short of 15x12.

Next up...Room Treatments.

TNTsTunes

DSkip wrote: »

If you are referring to Ben62670, he unfortunately passed away a year or so ago.

Such a loss, I was wondering about him. We used to talk on a somewhat regular basis until he stopped posting.

RIP my friend. I'd say more, but I can't right now...

westmassguy

RandyWilliamson wrote: »

I would be taking the two 12ufs in the xo now. And adding an 11uf,s i have already all running parallel. Then will buy 2 new 12 ufs of a different brand recommendation. Id be at 35uf though not 34...what is the effect 1 more uf has? However slight it may be.

The crossover point is determined by the large inductor. The shunt cap determines the angle of the slope (cutoff) in a 2nd order design. The required value is 34uf. Whether you use a 33uf or 35uf cap, I seriously doubt you or anyone else would hear any difference. Both are within 3% of the required value, and about the only place you'd see a difference, is if you plotted it using one of the more sophisticated crossover design programs.
You could use 12uf Clarity ESAs for the hi-pass. They're a bit more detailed, (in your face I would describe it) than the Sonicaps, but not as warm sounding, in my opinion.
The Clarity's are a bit larger than the Sonicaps. Add to that the stack you'll be making with the Sonicaps, you may run out of room.

TennMan

westmassguy wrote: »

I'm still not following you on the 12ufs. You already have 4 spare 12ufs?
Sounds like you found the source of your problem anyway.
The 34uf Sonicaps in the shunt position, will sound better, tighter, or as F1 would so, "Mo Betta Bass"

David, you used Dayton caps for the low frequencies in my 2B crossovers. Would there be much improvement in bass or midrange if we replaced them with Sonicaps?

westmassguy

TennMan wrote: »

westmassguy wrote: »

I'm still not following you on the 12ufs. You already have 4 spare 12ufs?
Sounds like you found the source of your problem anyway.
The 34uf Sonicaps in the shunt position, will sound better, tighter, or as F1 would so, "Mo Betta Bass"

David, you used Dayton caps for the low frequencies in my 2B crossovers. Would there be much improvement in bass or midrange if we replaced them with Sonicaps?

Hey Ronnie, yes there would be.

RandyWilliamson

Do both the 12 uf's work strictly for the high pass ? or do they bleed some mid range to the woofers as well? Wondering because if they're strict for highpass then how does running warm/bass not ruin the tweeter? Trying to learn not doubt. thank you btw.

those Clarity's are good value price thank you. So for maybe a little more pronounced midrange and a slight bit high range detail enhancement and more imaging. those would be your recommendation?

Or would I be getting the more pronounced mids from putting the sonicaps on the shunt side? Sorry if this all sounds dumb..believe it or not i think 2 way may be more difficult to understand than 3way xo's.

westmassguy

RandyWilliamson wrote: »

Do both the 12 uf's work strictly for the high pass ? or do they bleed some mid range to the woofers as well? Wondering because if they're strict for highpass then how does running warm/bass not ruin the tweeter? Trying to learn not doubt. thank you btw.

those Clarity's are good value price thank you. So for maybe a little more pronounced midrange and a slight bit high range detail enhancement and more imaging. those would be your recommendation?

Or would I be getting the more pronounced mids from putting the sonicaps on the shunt side? Sorry if this all sounds dumb..believe it or not i think 2 way may be more difficult to understand than 3way xo's.

The 12ufs are strictly in the hi-pass circuit. The 10s crossover at around 2KHz if memory serves. That means the woofers handle the Bass, and Lower Midrange, and the Tweeters handle the Upper Midrange and Treble.
It's always best practice to use the same brand and model Capacitor in the Hi and Lo-pass sections. You can use a different and or lower quality cap in the Lo-pass, and most people wouldn't notice the difference. Some however, can hear the difference.
I suggested the Clarity ESAs as equivalent alternatives to the Sonicaps. They're both considered High-End, but there are many other High-End Caps out there. Some are incredibly expensive.

RandyWilliamson

DSkip wrote: »

Schurkey wrote: »

RandyWilliamson wrote: »

I should mention it is a small room...just short of 15x12.

Next up...Room Treatments.

I agree whole-heartedly. Room Treatments are a must if you're trying to maximize the performance of your rig. I've got a 14x12 room with pretty substantial room treatments, and the differences are nowhere near subtle.

You guys have a good all in one resource link? Id like to start what i can altho foam pads everywhere may just not fly as much as id want them to.

Thanks mass.

Sami

Where do you guys source your inductors? Anyone roll their own?