Bryston BDP-1 Digital Player - First Impressions

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Comments

  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 11,812
    Yesterday, I received my surround sound/stereo system BDP1 back from repair. I sent both of them back, one at a time, to investigate 'Error 05' (over voltage) messages. Both were returned as no problem found. The second one's return defect sheet said they ran it to 132v before 'Error 05' occurred. Maybe I should bill PG&E for shipping.

    Anyway, now that both are here, I feel better. Whether I am playing my stereo, or HT system, they both sound great. Without a doubt, this is one of the best pieces of musical gear I have ever owned.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 5,252
    I heard the #1 killer of big screens was brown-outs, why I always wondered about power center - battery backups like I run on my PC to kept the power steady. but can they handle big amps, as most sources (DAC's & CDP's) shouldn't draw as much. I've seen my Panamax read anything from 123 - 112.
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • tonyb wrote: »
    I'm just thinking out loud DK, but maybe you should give the Cary 100t dac a whirl with the BDP-1. I know the 306 is no slouch by a long shot, but who knows.

    As mentioned previously, Cary said their 100/100t DACs were not equal to, or better than, the CD 306 PV.

    I recently evaluated a PS Audio DirectStream DAC and it was no match for the Cary CD 306 PV. Not even close. Even more than this, the DirectStream would not work with the USB output from my Bryston BDP-1 digital player. This meant that I could not play DSD files from the Bryston. DSD capability was the main reason I wanted an outboard DAC.

    Cary will release their DMC-600SE digital player this week. They say it offers better sound quality than the CD 306 PV, plus it plays DSD files.

    caryaudio.com/products/dmc-600se-digital-music-center/

    theabsolutesound.com/articles/cary-audio-introduces-the-dmc-600-and-dmc-600se-digital-music-center/

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • tonyb wrote: »
    I'm just thinking out loud DK, but maybe you should give the Cary 100t dac a whirl with the BDP-1. I know the 306 is no slouch by a long shot, but who knows.

    As mentioned previously, Cary said their 100/100t DACs were not equal to, or better than, the CD 306 PV.

    I recently evaluated a PS Audio DirectStream DAC and it was no match for the Cary CD 306 PV. Not even close. Even more than this, the DirectStream would not work with the USB output from my Bryston BDP-1 digital player. This meant that I could not play DSD files from the Bryston. DSD capability was the main reason I wanted an outboard DAC.

    Cary will release their DMC-600SE digital player this week. They say it offers better sound quality than the CD 306 PV, plus it plays DSD files.

    caryaudio.com/products/dmc-600se-digital-music-center/

    theabsolutesound.com/articles/cary-audio-introduces-the-dmc-600-and-dmc-600se-digital-music-center/

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,292
    I dunno DK, like the looks but wouldn't an I2S port have been desirable on a player of this caliber ?

    That aside, the PS Audio dacs and the Cary's are 2 different animals, as you so discovered. I really dig Cary's sound myself. I know you'll probably grab this baby when it's available and I'll look forward to your review.
    HT SYSTEM-
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    Polk Sig. 20's
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    Cables-
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  • tonyb wrote: »
    I dunno DK, like the looks but wouldn't an I2S port have been desirable on a player of this caliber ?

    My understanding is that the main advantage of an I2S connection is better sound quality through jitter reduction. The DMC-600SE uses something called "OSO Reclocking" to address jitter. I am guessing that the OSO Reclocking feature negated the need for an I2S port. I did forward your question to Cary and I will post their reply. Here is a description of the OSO Reclocking feature:

    "OSO Reclocking

    Once a digital signal is transferred into Cary Audio’s digital ecosystem via the digital
    inputs or CD, it is processed with extreme care to ensure the best possible sound
    achievable. As a digital source transfers from point A to point B it creates an insidious
    digital problem called jitter. To deal with this, Cary Audio uses something we call OSO
    Reclocking. While USB Asynchronous inputs use the XMOS processor to control the
    clocking of the USB host, other non-USB sources don’t have this luxury and rely on the
    DAC to clock the data as feed from the source vs. a more accurate and powerful XMOS
    clock/processor controlling the flow. While DAC clocks are OK for some folks, not for
    us! Our solution is to reclock all signals again once onboard, even XMOS USB, as to
    ensure all jitter is virtually eliminated to a minute degree. We call this OSO, short for
    “Onboard Signal Origination” because this reclocking and buffering creates a signal so
    stable and jitter free it’s as if the origin of the signal was generated onboard and not
    from an external source."


    Source: DMC-600-DMC-600SE-Features
    tonyb wrote: »
    That aside, the PS Audio dacs and the Cary's are 2 different animals, as you so discovered.

    Well, considering that the DS DAC retails for $6000 and the Cary CD306PV retailed for $8000, and considering that I am just using the DAC portion of the CD306, and considering the raves the DS DAC has been receiving, I was expecting the DS to be much better than my six year old CD306PV.
    tonyb wrote: »
    I really dig Cary's sound myself. I know you'll probably grab this baby when it's available and I'll look forward to your review.

    You know me too well. I ordered one last week...with trepidation.

    My CD 306 SACD player went back for service three times during its first year of ownership.

    My CD 306 Pro Version SACD player went back for service three times during its first year or ownership and had to go back for a forth repair to fix repair work improperly done during the third repair (the tech who did the third repair had since been fired). I haven't had any problems since then.

    There was a bright side to each repair cycle ordeal. After the final repair, the players were returned to me sounding better.

    I am hoping I won't go through a similar experience with the DMC-600SE.



    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • Moose68BashMoose68Bash Posts: 3,589
    DK,

    I didn't see or read that there is an ethernet jack on the Cary DMC-600SE or other connectivity to a LAN.

    Did I just miss it, or is there another way to connect it to a LAN? One of the main features of the DS DAC for me was the bridge to my LAN and therefore my NAS. I want my NAS to serve music to both my currently installed PS Audio DACS and the third one that I am working on getting on my network.

    I was also initially disappointed with the SQ of my DS DAC (as was my wife), but we both found that after many hours of burning in the performance improved dramatically.

    But all I have to compare it with are the Cambridge Audio AZur 840C and the PS Audio PerfectWave DACs I & II that I also own.

    Would you mind going into a bit of detail about the SQ shortcomings you found with the DS DAC?

    Thank you.
    Family Room, PS Audio PW Transport, DirectStream DAC w/Bridge II; AQ Sky XLRs, McIntosh MC 220 Tube Pre; AQ Sky XLRs, CAT 600.2 Dualmono Amp, Morrow SP7 Speaker Cables, SDA SRS 1.2tls (RD0198s, Dreadnought, Black Hole 5, Acousta-Stuf, Dynamat Extreme, JBWeld. Vr3 Mods: "The Abbot" Monastery-Level Xovers, Custom Internal Wiring, Binding Post Plates, & SDA ICs).

    Exercise Room, Wadia 171 iPod Dock, PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux PMF3150 Amp, Dreadnought, Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables, SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers).

    Synology 713+ NAS on Gigabit LAN serving PW MkII DAC & DirectStream DAC.
  • I didn't see or read that there is an ethernet jack on the Cary DMC-600SE or other connectivity to a LAN.

    Did I just miss it, or is there another way to connect it to a LAN? One of the main features of the DS DAC for me was the bridge to my LAN and therefore my NAS. I want my NAS to serve music to both my currently installed PS Audio DACS and the third one that I am working on getting on my network.

    The only network connectivity would be through the DMC-600SE's Bluetooth wireless interface or indirectly through a digital server, such as my BDP-1, that has Ethernet capability.

    My DS DAC did not have the network bridge. LAN connectivity was provided via my BDP-1.
    I was also initially disappointed with the SQ of my DS DAC (as was my wife), but we both found that after many hours of burning in the performance improved dramatically.

    I know about the long burn in times, but I expect a $6000 component to sound good right out of the box and then get better with age. The DS sounded "shrill" and "thin" at first, but improved considerably after 24 hours of constant play and improved a little bit more over the next 50 hours.

    The DS is a very good sounding DAC. If I were comparing it to the CD and SACD players I used several years ago (prior to the Carys) I would have been very highly impressed.
    Would you mind going into a bit of detail about the SQ shortcomings you found with the DS DAC?

    I will post a detailed review. As I noted previously, I had some issues with getting the DS DAC's USB interface to work with my BDP-1. Since I purchased the DS specifically for its capability to play DSD files over USB, I was at a severe disadvantage. PS Audio and Bryston are investigating the issue and I would prefer to know the outcome of that before I post my review.

    I will provide some general comments. Bear in mind that these observations are made within the context of comparing the DS DAC to another component with reference grade construction and reference grade parts quality.

    1. Clarity and detail was such that the DS sounded veiled compared to the Cary. However, if I wasn't doing A/B switching between the Cary and DS, if I were just listening to the DS, the sound was quite satisfying.

    2. The sound stage was reduced about 2 feet at each side, height was reduced about 1 foot, depth was reduced about 2 feet front and rear. I still had a big sound stage though. For perspective, Height went from 5 feet to 4 feet. Width went from 21 feet to 17 feet. Depth went from 10 feet to 6 feet.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,292
    Maybe a good testament to the well built analog output stage in the 306.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

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  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 11,812
    Personally, I am not overly excited with the one box that does everything approach, but can see where it does make sense. Especially in the cost savings from not having to buy additional power cords and interconnects. I wonder why Cary left SACD out of their do-all digital box.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • tonyb wrote: »
    Maybe a good testament to the well built analog output stage in the 306.

    It is.
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Personally, I am not overly excited with the one box that does everything approach, but can see where it does make sense. Especially in the cost savings from not having to buy additional power cords and interconnects.

    Especially when your power cords and interconnects are of the kilobuck+ variety.
    BlueFox wrote: »
    I wonder why Cary left SACD out of their do-all digital box.

    The market has moved toward DSD downloads. Disc-based DSD (SACD's) is practically dead, at least for popular music and jazz. It didn't make sense for Cary to pay Sony's steep SACD licensing fees when very few people have substantial SACD collections.

    Of the 924 music discs I own, 914 are CD and 10 are SACD. All ten SACDs are titles that I already owned in CD format. One of those 10 does not count as a real SACD because they used the same crappy highly compressed mix as the CD version. Since the market introduction of SACD in 1999, none of the artists I collect has released music in SACD format. My experience is not unique.

    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,292
    edited December 2014
    Nope, your experience certainly isn't unique. I do find it funny that in one thread claims of DSD downloads not being the future, and the opposite in this one. Trends are what they are, like them or not, and DSD obviously has the upward mobility.

    How long it will last is the question. Going to depend on the music available, the same things that have plagued SACD...and of course price.

    Wandering away from the thread topic so lets get back to it.....

    DSD as a SACD digital file.....that's where the market is moving. But....if licensing is preventing music you like to become available in DSD digital files then in my book your starting out with one foot in the grave already.

    I have no complaints about Cary's digital player, or the tech used to keep jitter at bay, or their choice of inputs/outputs aside from what I already stated but DK answered that. I'm more concerned about how a piece sounds rather than the technology inside. Sometimes sound quality and technology run hand in hand.....sometimes not too. I do know Cary knows how to build an analog output stage....which is why I'll wait on DK's review with great optimism.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • Moose68BashMoose68Bash Posts: 3,589
    DK,

    Thank you for your replies to my questions above. As always, they were clear, concise and helpful.

    They also whetted my appetite for your longer and more definitive review after you get the information you requested from PS Audio and Bryston.

    Since reading this thread I've been reading about the Bryston and Cary products being discussed -- especially the Cary DMC 600SE and the Bryston BDP1 & 2.

    One comment: While I know the MSRP for the PA Audio DirectStream is $5,995, the "street price" from various authorized dealers is $4,000-4,300 without any trade in credit. I suspect that PS Audio never really expected the DS to be a $6,000 device and that, consequently, it was not designed or built to hit that price point -- which suggests to me that the higher quality components in the Cary products verify the old saw, "You get what you pay for."

    Thanks again for your replies.
    Family Room, PS Audio PW Transport, DirectStream DAC w/Bridge II; AQ Sky XLRs, McIntosh MC 220 Tube Pre; AQ Sky XLRs, CAT 600.2 Dualmono Amp, Morrow SP7 Speaker Cables, SDA SRS 1.2tls (RD0198s, Dreadnought, Black Hole 5, Acousta-Stuf, Dynamat Extreme, JBWeld. Vr3 Mods: "The Abbot" Monastery-Level Xovers, Custom Internal Wiring, Binding Post Plates, & SDA ICs).

    Exercise Room, Wadia 171 iPod Dock, PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux PMF3150 Amp, Dreadnought, Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables, SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers).

    Synology 713+ NAS on Gigabit LAN serving PW MkII DAC & DirectStream DAC.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,292
    LOL...yeah but there is a huge disconnect between "you get what you pay for" and "I don't want to pay a lot for this muffler" crowd.

    I think audio is being driven higher...price wise, by technology rather than quality of parts used. Perfect example is the Chord Hugo dac. Is there any reason other than technology used that justifies it's price ? Sounds good ? Granted....but certainly no value in parts used.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,063
    The Chord costs so much because its a ground-up design. That is no different than anything else when the R&D is so high.
  • tonyb wrote: »
    I dunno DK, like the looks but wouldn't an I2S port have been desirable on a player of this caliber ?
    I am guessing that the OSO Reclocking feature negated the need for an I2S port. I did forward your question to Cary and I will post their reply.

    Cary confirmed that my guess was correct:

    "Correct on the OSO and I2S is really not widely used as an external input."


    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,292
    Thanks DK, but your answer alone made sense so I was satisfied with that.

    Skip,

    Ground up design ?? Hmmm....possibly, but still....shouldn't it look different then from their other products ?

    I'm not picking on Chord, just using them as an example of technology driving price. TV's are no different. Thing is though, technology changes so quickly, what happens to the value of a piece solely driven by technology ? Wise investment ? Though on the flipside, high end audio isn't a good investment anyway unless you really carefully pick your pieces.

    Analog doesn't change though, so the quality of anything to do with it in your system should be of importance. This is why for me I hold Cary towards the top, they build great analog output stages, and why they retain value also.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
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