Tube Phono Preamp help

Obsession18

rednedtugent wrote: »

So you have about $800.00 into it to make it sound right?

I purchased a "photo shoot" unit from Music Direct for $575, a pair of matched RCA blackplates $160 and the DIY rechargable DC power supply $70, total investment $805.

The RCA blackplates made more of a difference then the DC power supply. I built the power supply because of all the buzz on-line about feeding a phono preamp pure DC.

[Deleted User]

Thanks Obsession! I have the scratch but can't seem to pull the trigger yet.

Obsession18

gce wrote: »

So, where do you guys get the older tubes for something like this? These are older tubes so they don't make them anymore...right? So I'm thinking these better or preferred tubes are hard to find?

I used this vendor:

http://www.audiotubes.com/

No, they are no longer made, they are NOS (new old stock), not real hard to find but they are rather pricey.

gce

Holy-Moly I just went to audiotubes.com and there's so many tubes to pick from. I can see how this could/would get very expensive! Try this tube and that tube and before you know it you've spent more on tubes then what your preamp cost.

I gotta sit back and maybe rethink this before I jump in.

gce

Ok, I made the decision to get the Project tube DS. Even with a couple of tube rolls it will still be in my budget. Although its not very big I need to make room in my setup and get some interconnects.

Now the fun begins!

hochpt21

gce wrote: »

Ok, I made the decision to get the Project tube DS. Even with a couple of tube rolls it will still be in my budget. Although its not very big I need to make room in my setup and get some interconnects.

Now the fun begins!

Yessir!!

I've only gotten my toes wet, but as another polkie once said....toobes rule!!

Obsession18

gce wrote: »

Ok, I made the decision to get the Project tube DS. Even with a couple of tube rolls it will still be in my budget. Although its not very big I need to make room in my setup and get some interconnects.

Now the fun begins!

gce, even though I've been singing the praises of the Project tube DS, I have to throw out another possibility, the Hagerman Labs Cornet 3, the unit only became available within the last 6 months. Hagerman Labs is a small internet direct company, the unit can either be purhased fully assembled for $479 or as a kit for $379. The drawback versus the DS is this unit only has enough gain for MM cartridges whereas the DS will handle MC also. I have read lots of positive reviews concerning the Hagerman stuff. Here's a link:

http://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/collections/phono-preamps/products/cornet3

[Deleted User]

Looks like a winner for me obsession. Thanks!

mhardy6647

Jim Hagerman's designs are outstanding; some of the best-value components out there, bar none. The previous iteration of the Cornet was very good; at that price, it is an outstanding value.

His little soiled state Bugle 2 is also excellent; see my 'fiendish plan' thread (with thanks to Mrbiron)...
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/163279/my-fiendish-plan/p1

DSC_9813 by mhardy6647, on Flickr

gce

After I get the DS and live with it for awhile I plan on upgrading my MM to a MC or MI cartridge so the preamp has to be able to handle that.

mhardy6647

... or simply add a good pair of step-up transformers and then you don't need the extra amplification gain (and attendant noise) of a full-active MC phono preamp/EQ.

There's nothing wrong with high-gain fully active phono preamps (I use one nowadays), but good ones don't come cheap.

Of course a good pair of SUTs ain't cheap either, but it does provide "option creation" for those with good preamps that lack enough gain for LOMCs.

Just a thought...

SCompRacer

I built a couple SUT's recently. One with CineMag Red (~$160 a pair) and one with blue (~$360 a pair) transformers. Great SQ for the money. Some pics and revised wiring diagram included here.

http://s417.photobucket.com/user/scompracer/library/SUT?sort=6&page=1

I used two sealed C&K DPDT signal switches for the ground lift and two speed gain.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/7201P3YZBE/CKN1032-ND/5559

erniejade

I used to have a tubebox SE. It was a darn good unit.

gce

Obsession18 wrote: »

I considered both of the units in your original post and ended up with the Pro-Ject Tubebox DS, very happy with my choice.

Obsession, is there a starting point for all the adjustments on the tubebox DS? I'm using a Clearaudio Virtuoso Ebony MM cartridge for now. The tubebox will be delivered today!

Won't get my interconnects till tomorrow.

Obsession18

Set gain to 40db, cap loading according to your cart spec and I like to use the low pass filter. With a MM cart you will NOT be using the front knob, this is for Ohm loading when using a MC cart.

The adjustments are made using little jumpers which can be somewhat of a pain, the manual is pretty easy to follow.

When setting your cap loading keep in mind the capacitance of the interconnects from the table to the pre, usually runs about 15 - 20 pF a foot.

gce

Thanks Obsession...good start!

gce

Got my interconnects today (Big Surs) and they have an arrow on them. I've searched the forums and there's a lot of different answers out there on which way to run the arrow.

Should the arrow point to the Phono preamp or away?

vcwatkins

In direction of signal. For example, source > preamp > amp
Craig

gce

Thanks vc. I also did a search on this forum and found this quote from F1nut. Maybe this is only for the interconnects he lists in his quote?

F1nut wrote: »

"Most use the Bruce Brisson design (he designed Monster Cable, then MIT) With these, the shield is connected at the arrowhead end, and not at the arrowtail end. The arrowhead end should be at the preamp because for lowest hum, the preamp should be the only component grounded at the wall, and therefore, you want all currents from the shields to drain out through the preamp ground. This means that the IC connecting the preamp to the amp should also have its arrowhead pointed to the preamp -- so (even though it's counterintuitive) it really has nothing to do with direction of signal flow."

dromunds

Now I'm getting confused. Is F1 Nut's quote assuming a turntable in the mix with its attendant ground wire to phono preamp ground connection? In that scenario would preamp still be component grounded at wall for lowest hum, and if so would you connect ground from phono preamp to preamp and then at wall?

vcwatkins

Hmm, interesting. Thanks. I'll be changing my vinyl rip setup using MITs this evening and will experiment.

voltz

ok I am confused also I thought it shows the way the signal goes from TT to phoneamp- then phono amp to pre amp - then pre amp to amp...etc....

gce

Ok, after looking around the net and getting all kinds of answers on this I decided to contact AudioQuest and ask the question. That post I found from F1nut is from 2005. This is what I got back from AudioQuest for their cables.

Hi George -- The arrows point from source to "sink" (destination). In this case that means from the phono preamp to your receiver. The musical information is flowing from the phono cartridge to the phono preamp to the AVR to the speakers.

Obsession18

gce - what are your impressions on the Tubebox DS so far?

gce

So far very well built. I was worried about how small it was that it would move around with the interconnects plugged in but it very stable. I'm not going to hook it up until this weekend.

Would turning it on and burning it in for a day or so be a bad thing?

voltz

I sure it would be fine. Phono amps are sort of made to stay on, I know my Graham Slee instructions say to just leave it plug in which is always on. as it doesn't have a on/off switch.

Obsession18

gce wrote: »

So far very well built. I was worried about how small it was that it would move around with the interconnects plugged in but it very stable. I'm not going to hook it up until this weekend.

Would turning it on and burning it in for a day or so be a bad thing?

Burning it in for day is good idea, however unlike solid state gear you do not want to leave it on all the time, tube life will be greatly shortened.

voltz

Obsession18 wrote: »

gce wrote: »

So far very well built. I was worried about how small it was that it would move around with the interconnects plugged in but it very stable. I'm not going to hook it up until this weekend.

Would turning it on and burning it in for a day or so be a bad thing?

Burning it in for day is good idea, however unlike solid state gear you do not want to leave it on all the time, tube life will be greatly shortened.

I forgot that it uses tube, as my Graham Slee is SS. Thanks Obsession!

gce

Obsession18 wrote: »

Burning it in for day is good idea, however unlike solid state gear you do not want to leave it on all the time, tube life will be greatly shortened.

The blue light is on. Can't wait till this weekend!

gce

Ok, I got everything hooked up and listened for 3 or 4 hours. What a difference from using the built-in phono stage in the Marantz. The sound is richer and fuller. Bass is tighter and it just sounds more detailed and cleaner to me. One that I listened to was Cat Stevens "Teaser and the Firecat" 1st press and all I can say is that it never sounded this good.

I had the subsonic filter on and read that this might diminish the sound quality some. So I switched it off to hear for myself and yes to me it sounds better off.

Now I'm going to look into MC Carts and Tubes for the DS...does it ever end, I hope not!

Thanks for everyone's help on this!!!