ebay seller crap

pglbook

I just need to vent about a dishonest ebay seller and to see what others think.

Two days ago I bid on a Ramones box set (Weird Tales of the Ramones: 3CD/1 DVD, new/sealed condition, free shipping) and ended up losing the auction. I bid $32 and it ended at $33. I was out of town for the last 5 hours of the auction and could not monitor it so I ended up losing out by $1. Not a big deal at all.

A few hours later I get an e-mail frome ebay telling me that the seller was allowing me a Second Chance Offer. I had never heard about that before but, looking at ebay's site, it basically said that a seller could offer an item to a previous bidder at that bidder's final bid if a sale was not completed, etc. I was glad and was going to buy the item for my $32 bid (which was the Buy It Now price in the 2nd Chance Offer) but then noticed that the seller had added a note for me to add $7 shipping on the 2nd Chance Offer even though the original auction had FREE shipping.

I suspected something and didn't think the seller could change the original terms on the 2nd Chance Offer so I sent the Seller 3 e-mails prior to the expiration of the 2nd Chance Offer seeking confirmation that the original terms ($32, free shipping) applied. Of course, seller never responded and the 2nd Chance Offer expired. Again, not a big deal and better not to do business with someone like that.

The next day I noticed that Seller re-listed the item with a starting bid of $20 (and a Buy It Now price of $59) plus $3 shipping. I decided to make an initial $20 bid on the item - primarily to let the seller know I didn't appreciate what he did.

Now, just a few hours ago, ebay e-mailed me saying that seller canceled my bid and the auction.

Can a seller just cancel an auction after someone has placed a bid?

I went and looked at the original listing and it stated "Seller no longer has this item for sale," which is BS. Obviously the seller had the item or he would not have made me a 2nd Chance Offer or re-listed it.

I could care less about not getting the item. What irks me is the seller's dishonesty. He is the type of seller who gives honest ebay sellers a bad name.

I will contact ebay tomorrow and make a complaint against the seller but am curious what others think of this.

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

Hermitism

Some sellers list an item on eBay while at the same time will have it listed on Craigslist. A seller can cancel the auction until a certain time. I think it's when the auction gets to the last 24 hours that they can no longer cancel it, but I might be wrong on the time.

Dennis Gardner

The seller couldn't have changed the price on the shipping on the second price offer. The software doesn't allow a shipping price change unless it is for less than the original amount. I just had an item that had $6.95 +$3 that the seller wanted to offer $4 +$3.95 and the software only allowed me to change the original price up or down, but the shipping had to go down. So I offered it to him for $7.95 with free shipping.

Strange rules......

Your seller was trying to increase the total which is against their rules.

Hermitism

I bought a Smith & Wesson knife for an absurdly low price on eBay a few years ago. After I won the auction the seller told me he couldn't find the knife and refunded my money. I suspected he didn't want to give it up for such a low price so I kept watching his listings. Sure enough, two weeks later he relisted the knife with a much higher starting bid price. I contacted the seller and made him sell me the knife at the price I won it for. I told him I'd report him if he didnt .

Nightfall

The first interaction, regarding the second chance offer, the seller was in the wrong.

The second interaction, I think the seller has the right to cancel the auction before a certain amount of time.

There's a few more of those on eBay but they're $50-$60. I wouldn't deal with that particular seller again.

Nightfall

Hermitism wrote: »

I bought a Smith & Wesson knife for an absurdly low price on eBay a few years ago. After I won the auction the seller told me he couldn't find the knife and refunded my money. I suspected he didn't want to give it up for such a low price so I kept watching his listings. Sure enough, two weeks later he relisted the knife with a much higher starting bid price. I contacted the seller and made him sell me the knife at the price I won it for. I told him I'd report him if he didnt .

That's an awesome story. I always like hearing when a buyer gets to stick it to a shady seller.

Hermitism

You know, that seller listed that knife as like new. And the pictures looked great, but it never showed the blade up close. When it arrived and I opened it up, it looked like someone had tried to cut wire with it. I couldn't complain because I paid so little for it, but anyone with any sense would know not to list it as "like new". Sometimes I just really hate people.

Nightfall

Hermitism wrote: »

You know, that seller listed that knife as like new. And the pictures looked great, but it never showed the blade up close. When it arrived and I opened it up, it looked like someone had tried to cut wire with it. I couldn't complain because I paid so little for it, but anyone with any sense would know not to list it as "like new". Sometimes I just really hate people.

...or they purposely damaged it out of spite.

pglbook

I definitely will not deal with him again and I intend to let ebay know how he changed the terms of the original offer by adding a note wanting me to add $7 shipping on the 2nd Chance Offer when the original item listed Free Shipping. I still have his e-mail with the note to add $7 shipping and will forward it to ebay.

I did not know (until now) that a Seller could cancel an auction (up to a certain time) after receiving a bid.

Thanks for all the responses and comments.

Nightfall wrote: »

The first interaction, regarding the second chance offer, the seller was in the wrong.

The second interaction, I think the seller has the right to cancel the auction before a certain amount of time.

There's a few more of those on eBay but they're $50-$60. I wouldn't deal with that particular seller again.

Farkenhostile

I've sold one item on ebay ever, the guy paid right away but emailed me and asked if i could bump up the shipping time and he would pay the difference. I knew I would probably get burned for the difference and sure enough I never heard from the guy again, I didn't even get a review. It probably only cost me like $10 more so I wasn't really upset or anything about it. But i learned a lesson about ebay that day.

nooshinjohn

The seller wasn't PFB was it?

Nightfall

nooshinjohn wrote: »

The seller wasn't PFB was it?

No, if it was the seller would have accidentally paid HIM the money and then sent some high end wires, instead of the Ramones box set, to the wrong address. Then he would have drove and got his Boxster stuck into a mud pit on the way to the Post Office trying to fix the situation.

F1nut

It's like this. The seller had a buddy bump your original bid up to see how much you actually bid. By doing that he found out your high bid was $32.00. Since his buddy had no intention of buying it for $33.00 the seller decided to take your $32.00, made the second chance offer and tacked on the $7.00 shipping charge to make up the difference of what he expected to get. It happens all the time. You can report him to eBay, but they won't do a damn thing, so you're wasting more of your time.

He canceled the second listing (which he can do) because no one hit the buy it now before you bid the $20.00. Seeing it was you bidding again he probably figured you weren't going above $32.00 like the last time, so rather than take the chance of not getting what he wants, he cancels it. He'll relist it again at a later date.

Nightfall

F1nut wrote: »

It's like this. The seller had a buddy bump your original bid up to see how much you actually bid. By doing that he found out your high bid was $32.00. Since his buddy had no intention of buying it for $33.00 the seller decided to take your $32.00, made the second chance offer and tacked on the $7.00 shipping charge to make up the difference of what he expected to get. It happens all the time. You can report him to eBay, but they won't do a damn thing, so you're wasting more of your time.

He canceled the second listing (which he can do) because no one hit the buy it now before you bid the $20.00. Seeing it was you bidding again he probably figured you weren't going above $32.00 like the last time, so rather than take the chance of not getting what he wants, he cancels it. He'll relist it again at a later date.

eBay is brutal for a buyer. I never would have thought about all that but it sounds spot on.

teekay0007

F1nut wrote: »

It's like this. The seller had a buddy bump your original bid up to see how much you actually bid. By doing that he found out your high bid was $32.00. Since his buddy had no intention of buying it for $33.00 the seller decided to take your $32.00, made the second chance offer and tacked on the $7.00 shipping charge to make up the difference of what he expected to get. It happens all the time. You can report him to eBay, but they won't do a damn thing, so you're wasting more of your time.

Yep, I've seen this many, many times. It's called "shilling" and is illegal by eBay's rules. Yeah, reporting it is pretty much a waste of your time. After all, eBay does get paid as a percentage of the final sales price, so it's to their advantage to let the prices get run up. I'm especially suspicious of shilling when I see a zero-feedback bidder running up a price. Double-especially suspicious (!) when I then get a second-chance offer to buy the item about two minutes after the auction has ended!

teekay0007

F1nut wrote: »

He canceled the second listing (which he can do) because no one hit the buy it now before you bid the $20.00. Seeing it was you bidding again he probably figured you weren't going above $32.00 like the last time, so rather than take the chance of not getting what he wants, he cancels it. He'll relist it again at a later date.

I'm pretty sure that he can't (by eBay rules) cancel the listing if someone has placed a bid UNLESS he has a reserve price that hasn't been met. Once a bid has been placed (in a reserve-free listing), he is obligated to sell the item to the end-of-auction highest bidder and the opportunity to then buy at the "Buy It Now" price, if one was set, is lost. In this situation, of course, if a seller does indeed have the item listed elsewhere (ie. CL or Audiogon), he should then cancel those listings once that first eBay bid has been placed. However, often they don't and that's where you have the low-life sellers cancel saying "the item is no longer available" after someone has come through with their elsewhere-posted asking price.

Dennis Gardner

If you think that is the worst, you should be a seller. They have taken all the rights and repercussions away from the seller. We can't even give negative feedback on a buyer that gives negative. Most disputes are found in the buyers behalf and dealing with buyers that want to renegotiate after the fact has lead me to offer only full refund upon return. I'm tired of the "not as described" BS when I put 24 great pictures on a listing and list the defects on used stuff one by one. Twice in the past 2 weeks, I've had buyers try to get partial refunds on items that clearly had great pics and descriptions. They just troll for sellers afraid of losing their 100% ratings.

I know this MO to be the case as once the full refund offer was the only offer I proposed, they both kept the item and left good feedback. They just got called on their bluff.

It has become "seller beware" recently and I have done it for 15 years.

headrott

F1nut wrote: »

It's like this. The seller had a buddy bump your original bid up to see how much you actually bid. By doing that he found out your high bid was $32.00. Since his buddy had no intention of buying it for $33.00 the seller decided to take your $32.00, made the second chance offer and tacked on the $7.00 shipping charge to make up the difference of what he expected to get. It happens all the time. You can report him to eBay, but they won't do a damn thing, so you're wasting more of your time.

He canceled the second listing (which he can do) because no one hit the buy it now before you bid the $20.00. Seeing it was you bidding again he probably figured you weren't going above $32.00 like the last time, so rather than take the chance of not getting what he wants, he cancels it. He'll relist it again at a later date.

Exactly correct Jesse.

Unfortunately, the seller is an a$$hole.......

westmassguy

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

If you think that is the worst, you should be a seller. They have taken all the rights and repercussions away from the seller. We can't even give negative feedback on a buyer that gives negative. Most disputes are found in the buyers behalf and dealing with buyers that want to renegotiate after the fact has lead me to offer only full refund upon return. I'm tired of the "not as described" BS when I put 24 great pictures on a listing and list the defects on used stuff one by one. Twice in the past 2 weeks, I've had buyers try to get partial refunds on items that clearly had great pics and descriptions. They just troll for sellers afraid of losing their 100% ratings.

I know this MO to be the case as once the full refund offer was the only offer I proposed, they both kept the item and left good feedback. They just got called on their bluff.

It has become "seller beware" recently and I have done it for 15 years.

Very true. I sell a lot on eBay, and sellers have barely any rights left. I've only had a couple problems over the years with buyers, and always open a dispute case with eBay ASAP. The buyer backed down in each case.
To the OP, the seller was in the wrong when he attempted to tack on shipping fees. When he re-listed the item, he can cancel any bid from any buyer up to a certain point before the auction ends. He can also add you to his "Unwelcome Bidders List, to prevent you from bidding on any of his future auctions, not that you'd ever bid on his items again.

deronb1

If the seller would have put a reserve price on it, all of this would been avoided.

Jimbo18

A seller can cancel an auction up to a certain point before it ends, but he is supposed to have a valid reason for it. Like the listing was wrong, item not available, etc. and supposedly ebay keeps track of that so it doesn't happen too often. I doubt that there any real "sanctions" put on sellers for it, though.

I used to sell coins on eBay and sometimes I would find a defect that I hadn't noticed earlier and would then cancel the auction because the coin was not as described. Or sometimes, I copied an earlier auction listing of mine and forgot to change the wording on it, so it actually described a coin of the same date/mintmark but not necessarily the same condition as the one I was selling currently.

So I think there are valid reasons for cancelling but in your case, it sounds like he just didn't want to sell at the price it originally went for. But to ask for shipping costs that were not in the original auction is a "no-no". Reporting won't do much good though.

I stopped selling for several reasons, like the increasing fees, but also because, despite what it seems like with this seller, buyers have too many ways to scam the seller by saying they didn't receive the item, or it's not as described, or returning the item for a refund but it's not the same one you shipped, etc. PayPal will refund them the money because, even with a delivery confirmation, you can't prove they actually got it. I had very few problems with buyers, but I read a lot of horror stories from other sellers.

tonyb

EBAY sucks....no matter how you slice it. I would never...ever buy a piece of audio gear from Ebay. Way too many scammers and too much B.S. between buyers and sellers ebay themselves and paypal.

mikey1987

I wouldn't even bother reporting. Your explanation is sound, but a customer service rep probably isn't going to read through it all or understand it.

Unfortunately, this is how many people do business in their own stores and shady tactics aren't exclusive to ebay.

Honestly, I would be glad you DIDNT get stuck buying them. If someone is willing to resort to crappy things, then it's likely the item isn't in as good condition as they say it's in. And if you get testy with them insisting they sell to you, you'll probably just get a damaged item (and of course, they'll say it was immaculate when it left their house).

I only buy my music from Amazon.com brand new. Sometimes I get albums for $3 each (when there's only 1 or 2 of that item left and they want to clean inventory) and sometimes I pay $50 (if it's a 4 disc Dead show that I loved). Sometimes the package carrier isn't gentle and the CD case gets cracked, too. But you know what? The discs never had a single scratch, and I've yet to received one that wasn't factory shrinkwrapped.

pitdogg2

F1nut wrote: »

It's like this. The seller had a buddy bump your original bid up to see how much you actually bid. By doing that he found out your high bid was $32.00. Since his buddy had no intention of buying it for $33.00 the seller decided to take your $32.00, made the second chance offer and tacked on the $7.00 shipping charge to make up the difference of what he expected to get. It happens all the time. You can report him to eBay, but they won't do a damn thing, so you're wasting more of your time.

He canceled the second listing (which he can do) because no one hit the buy it now before you bid the $20.00. Seeing it was you bidding again he probably figured you weren't going above $32.00 like the last time, so rather than take the chance of not getting what he wants, he cancels it. He'll relist it again at a later date.

^^^^^this^^^^^^^ He most likely put you on his do not sell to list and anything he has you will not be able to bid on because you called him on his game. Crooks do not like to deal with folks THAT know whats going on.

pitdogg2

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

If you think that is the worst, you should be a seller. They have taken all the rights and repercussions away from the seller. We can't even give negative feedback on a buyer that gives negative.

Worst thing eBay ever did. Sellers are hold hostage to an extent.

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

Most disputes are found in the buyers behalf and dealing with buyers that want to renegotiate after the fact has lead me to offer only full refund upon return. I'm tired of the "not as described" BS when I put 24 great pictures on a listing and list the defects on used stuff one by one. Twice in the past 2 weeks, I've had buyers try to get partial refunds on items that clearly had great pics and descriptions. They just troll for sellers afraid of losing their 100% ratings.

I know this MO to be the case as once the full refund offer was the only offer I proposed, they both kept the item and left good feedback. They just got called on their bluff.

It has become "seller beware" recently and I have done it for 15 years.

Hammer, Nail, Head...100%accurate. Another thing I have seen lately on eBay is what we seen around here but 100% illegal on the bay "buyer add 3% to cover PP fees".... Turn them in to eBay they do nothing as long as they are getting paid.

helipilotdoug

Here are the ebay rules for ending an auction early:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/end_early.html

Farkenhostile

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

If you think that is the worst, you should be a seller. They have taken all the rights and repercussions away from the seller. We can't even give negative feedback on a buyer that gives negative. Most disputes are found in the buyers behalf and dealing with buyers that want to renegotiate after the fact has lead me to offer only full refund upon return. I'm tired of the "not as described" BS when I put 24 great pictures on a listing and list the defects on used stuff one by one. Twice in the past 2 weeks, I've had buyers try to get partial refunds on items that clearly had great pics and descriptions. They just troll for sellers afraid of losing their 100% ratings.

I know this MO to be the case as once the full refund offer was the only offer I proposed, they both kept the item and left good feedback. They just got called on their bluff.

It has become "seller beware" recently and I have done it for 15 years.

Years ago I bought a samsung avr (stop laughing I don't use it anymore) and the guy described it as kinda scuffed up. When it showed up the entire right side plastic was broken off and just gone, so it couldn't have happened in shipping. I contacted the seller and he offered to PP me $100 back which i accepted. I'm more than willing to work with someone before giving a bad review because I know that bad reviews can hurt their businesses.

Twice I've paid for something on ebay and the items never even shipped but PP refunded my money, the "sellers" never said a word during the dispute to me or ebay. It was like someone put up a bs auction to get some quick cash then walked away.

Polkie2009

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Worst thing eBay ever did. Sellers are hold hostage to an extent. +1000 on this and what Dennis mentioned above. Seems like the past number of years,(5 or so) Ebay has had more and more riffraff scammers , buying and selling. It's like a minefield there, you take your chances and hope the transaction goes smoothly. I used buy stuff all the time there back in the late 90's ,early 2000's . Last couple of years, not so much. Buying only__ from sellers with excellent to perfect positive feedback helps, but I've never sold on the site.It sounds like that's even risky to do nowadays. Thank goodness we have our CP fleamarket!




Hammer, Nail, Head...100%accurate. Another thing I have seen lately on eBay is what we seen around here but 100% illegal on the bay "buyer add 3% to cover PP fees".... Turn them in to eBay they do nothing as long as they are getting paid.

+10000

Moose68Bash

F1nut wrote: »

It's like this. The seller had a buddy bump your original bid up to see how much you actually bid. By doing that he found out your high bid was $32.00. Since his buddy had no intention of buying it for $33.00 the seller decided to take your $32.00, made the second chance offer and tacked on the $7.00 shipping charge to make up the difference of what he expected to get. It happens all the time.

Exactly what happened to me when I was bidding on a preamp that was going at a great price.

I called the seller on his "game" and asked him politely to take his preamp and store it someplace well out of the sun light.