I'm thinking about selling out

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EndersShadow
EndersShadow Posts: 17,546
edited July 2014 in The Clubhouse
So I'm in a massive internal debate about selling off my 2 Carver amps, my Integra and my Interconnects and just moving to a Pioneer SC model. I am just tired of all the wires and crap behind my entertainment center and would love to tidy it all up with less gear drawing less power taking up less room and lastly requiring less repairing.

I am at this point certain that the SC-85, or SC-87 is where I want to land. I think the 85 has enough balls to drive my setup for HT purposes fine, I dont do lots of critical music listening down there, and if I really felt I needed a stereo amp later on I could always buy one.

After selling off all my gear I can likely snag the 85 and have enough cash left over to finally get better HDMI cables and still have some money for my 2 channel system upstairs, or snag a Xbox One.

If I go with the SC-87, may have enough to do HDMI cables and thats it.....

In looking them over here is what I come up with as the differences.

Power:

SC-85
SC-87

760
810 ---- watts multi channel simultaneous drive
220
240 ---- 4 ohms
175
190 ---- 6 ohms
135
140 ---- 8 ohms

The 87 also adds the following features:

3D Space Frame Construction - do the build the chassis in space??? lol
AIR Studios Monitor Certification
Phono input

So looking them over how big a deal is that extra headroom between the two? Its not enough to make a SPL difference obviously, but is it worth the extra spend to add it? Otherwise from a feature standpoint they are darn near identical. I dont think I will ever spin LP's downstairs at all, so the phono input is moot, I dont really need more than a powered Zone 2 and Zone 2 HDMI output for a future covered porch add on. Both of which the 85 has.

And dont suggest the 89, it doesnt add much more besides a wee bit more power, Zone 4, a USB DAC in (using HDMI for that regardless), ability to send out HDMI over ethernet, none of which I really need.

What would you do?
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
Post edited by EndersShadow on
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited July 2014
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    Do the 85 and be done with it. Not sure what you have for HDMI cables now but not much of an upgrade there, it's just 0's & 1's . I would buy some quality cables from Monoprice or Bluejeans and call it.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,525
    edited July 2014
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    There's alot to be said about simplicity. I like that both of my video sources connect directly to my plasma HDTV. I like that I own/use just 1 set of .5mtr interconnects, 1 coaxial, and 1 Toslink cable. I like the "swiss-army-knife" flexibility of my DAC and Oppo player.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,546
    edited July 2014
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    Sherardp wrote: »
    Do the 85 and be done with it. Not sure what you have for HDMI cables now but not much of an upgrade there, it's just 0's & 1's . I would buy some quality cables from Monoprice or Bluejeans and call it.

    I am running just cheap monoprice stuff. I would like to upgrade to some Audioquest cabling just so I dont wonder "what if". I know some think its a joke and thats fine, but for the lengths I need the cost isnt crazy.
    steveinaz wrote: »
    There's alot to be said about simplicity. I like that both of my video sources connect directly to my plasma HDTV. I like that I own/use just 1 set of .5mtr interconnects, 1 coaxial, and 1 Toslink cable. I like the "swiss-army-knife" flexibility of my DAC and Oppo player.

    Thats kinda what I keep going back to. Less wires, less amps, less stuff to break/fix/upgrade, etc....

    Separates are nice, but honestly for the volume level I normally listen at when watching movies in the HT, dont need that much (or so I tell myself)...

    I've held out about 6-7 years since my last AVR purchase and there have been enough significant advancements in both power (ICE amps) and features (ARC, 4k, EQ's) to justify the upgrade now.

    Especially since my out of pocket cost is nill.

    Thats honestly all my wife cares about lol....

    The Carvers I have work, are good, but I have a Parasound for upstairs now for the RS-II's so thats covered and my LSi 15's I can cross over higher once I build my DIY sub, so that will lessen the load on the AVR.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited July 2014
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    SC85 bro.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,546
    edited July 2014
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    Yup, think thats where my head is at.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited July 2014
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    I'd keep the m1.0-t mkII as the last piece to sell off and let the ears decide if it stays or goes.

    The m1.0-t mkII is a powerhouse - I'd not give that one up so easy (I kinda regret selling mine).

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,546
    edited July 2014
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    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    I'd keep the m1.0-t mkII as the last piece to sell off and let the ears decide if it stays or goes.

    The m1.0-t mkII is a powerhouse - I'd not give that one up so easy (I kinda regret selling mine).

    I agree and thats why I got it initially, but w/o selling that I wont be able to snag the SC-85. Thats where a large portion of the money is gonna come from.

    TBH its nice, but its one more set of IC's, one more device to work around, and another piece of gear that may need repair which means 60 bucks to ship both ways.

    I think it would make my wife happy to cut some pieces out so it looks "prettier", I may not notice the difference in sound quality, and if it becomes a problem, then I just move the Parasound HCA-1200ii I have down there for the short term while saving up for something decent.

    The 15's do need some power, but I've seen more than my share of LSi setups paired with SC models here lately to think I may not notice the difference enough for it to be a problem.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,657
    edited July 2014
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    Sell out.....


    time to turn in your audio man card:mrgreen:
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,546
    edited July 2014
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    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Sell out.....


    time to turn in your audio man card:mrgreen:

    Thats the only one I got left.... I turned in my man card when I got married.....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited July 2014
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    You guys are too fickle for me; I love my wires/cables, the more the merrier. Having a bird's nest of cables back there adds to the gravity of the listening. lol

    I'm sure the Pioneer will be fine. It's a great AVR. But you may miss the amps?

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,546
    edited July 2014
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    Wife told me to hold off. Said if I can suck it up for about a year we will just by the Pio (at that point the 2015 model) outright. Then I can sell of whatever I want from our current gear and use that money for cable upgrades.

    So I may try to hold out, but I dont know... its an itch man...

    I prefer as minimal as possible and currently there just is no good way to organize things... and I've run out of HDMI ports on my AVR already so cant add anything without removing something else.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,162
    edited July 2014
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    You could also get an SC-75 and up... I may be moving on soon from Pioneer to a Yamaha CX-a5000.

    http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/cx-a5000_black_u/?mode=model

    I am just waiting to see if they will be making a version to support ATMOS
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,657
    edited July 2014
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    EndersShadow wrote: »
    Wife told me to hold off. Said if I can suck it up for about a year we will just by the Pio (at that point the 2015 model) outright.

    careful IF Pioneer is indeed stepping away of the AV business you may be buying "Changsho" Brand and we all know that the QC will go down...
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,546
    edited July 2014
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    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    careful IF Pioneer is indeed stepping away of the AV business you may be buying "Changsho" Brand and we all know that the QC will go down...

    Trust me that factored in since they just announced this years models and next years may indeed be made somewhere else.....
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,546
    edited July 2014
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    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    You could also get an SC-75 and up... I may be moving on soon from Pioneer to a Yamaha CX-a5000.

    http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/cx-a5000_black_u/?mode=model

    I am just waiting to see if they will be making a version to support ATMOS

    True, but I want a warranty with it and since if you buy online from a retailer you void it (cause they dont sell Elite stuff online legit) its hard to find em here locally, and by the time I move my gear along to save up the funds, they would be gone anyway...

    Besides I want Dolby Atmos (:evil:) jk, I think its about as useful as 3D was/is.... marketing ploy. Maybe something I will go to a theater equipped with it for, but otherwise not gonna happen at my house.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited July 2014
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    EndersShadow wrote: »
    I agree and thats why I got it initially, but w/o selling that I wont be able to snag the SC-85. Thats where a large portion of the money is gonna come from.

    SkywalkerNooooo.jpg

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • codyc1ark
    codyc1ark Posts: 2,530
    edited July 2014
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    I donno Dan, I'm running a measly 25 series and I can notice quite a difference when I just had that hooked up when I moved here vs dropping my amp into the mix. Food for thought, I'd sell and look into a midrange five channel amp with a used SC.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,911
    edited July 2014
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    Yeah, I still think it's wishful thinking to drive a full LSI rig on any receiver. At least keep a 2 channel amp in there.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,860
    edited July 2014
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    I don't think you're selling out......I think you're downsizing.

    Selling out is getting a Sound Bar.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,365
    edited July 2014
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    sellout-label-md.png
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • Mikey081057
    Mikey081057 Posts: 7,127
    edited July 2014
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    reminds me of

    sellout3cover.jpg
    My New Year's resolution is 3840 × 2160

    Family Room| Marantz AV7704| Usher Dancer Mini - 2 DMD Mains |Usher Dancer Mini-x DMD's Surrounds | Usher BE-616 DMD Center | SVS Ultra Rear Surrounds | Parasound Halo A21 | Parsound Halo A52+ | MIT Shotgun S3's | Dual SVS SB 4000 Ultras | Oppo UDP 203 | Directv Genie HD DVR | Samsung 75" Q8 QLED | PSAudio Stellar GCD | Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ | Lumin U1 Mini | HP Elite Slice PC | ROON'd for life |

    ManCave: HT:Polk LSiM 706VR3 LSiM 703's LSiM 702's|| Marantz AV7002 AV PrePro Sunfire TGA-7401| Sony PS4 Pro| Sony PS4 Pro|SVS PB13 Ultra| Oppo UDP 203 | Music Hall MMF 5.3se TT w/ Soundsmith Carmen | Samsung 55" SUHD TV | Sony PS4

    Patio | Polk Atrium 8's | Yamaha R-N303BL |

    Office BlueSound Node| KEF LS50 | Peactree Nova 125SE |

    Bedroom | Focal 905's | Chromecast Audio |

    Garage | Polk Monitor 5B's

    Closet Yamaha M80 | 2 Polk MP3K subs| Yaqin MC100B with Shuguang Treasures KT 88's & CV181Z's | Tesla E83CC's | Marantz 2252B | Marantz 2385 |Polk SDA SRS 2.3 | LSiM 705's |
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited July 2014
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    I was about to agree with you for down sizing, but then when I saw you want to put LSIs on a receiver, you lost me! Come on Ender, you have been here long enough to know that you won't be running your LSIs to their full potential without amps! And if you are going to settle for that, then what's the point of even having a system. You might as well get a Bose system and call it a day. But you will certainly have downsized.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • Thorton
    Thorton Posts: 1,324
    edited July 2014
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    cfrizz wrote: »
    I was about to agree with you for down sizing, but then when I saw you want to put LSIs on a receiver, you lost me! Come on Ender, you have been here long enough to know that you won't be running your LSIs to their full potential without amps! And if you are going to settle for that, then what's the point of even having a system. You might as well get a Bose system and call it a day. But you will certainly have downsized.

    +1. The lady has spoken and I agree. If anything, save your money and upgrade the integra with a nice 2-3 year old pre/pro.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
    Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
    DAC: Bricasti M1SE
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
    Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,546
    edited July 2014
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    Thorton wrote: »
    +1. The lady has spoken and I agree. If anything, save your money and upgrade the integra with a nice 2-3 year old pre/pro.

    That defeats the purpose. The goal was to get more features (EQ, etc) and consolidate into a single unit.

    Buying a 2-3 year old pre-pro will equal older EQ and likely no ARC or more HDMI ports than I have now.

    My 5 channel Carver is in need of some repair, and my 2 channel Carver is acting up on me as well.

    I wont be able to afford a newer Sunfire TGA amp or I would and this would be a moot point.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • Thorton
    Thorton Posts: 1,324
    edited July 2014
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    I know what you're saying. You want more features. I agree. You want to consolidate to one unit. Yes, this is nice. Personally after upgrading to a very good pre/pro and multi-channel amp, I will never go back to a AVR. That's me. I would rather wait and save till I had enough funds to get exactly what I wanted. I'm also taking into account from what I read on this forum about the power requirement to drive your LSI's. I've learned this with driving my A9's.

    You're in a tough situation with your older amps needing repair. Good luck.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
    Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
    DAC: Bricasti M1SE
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
    Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited July 2014
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    I am expanding my HT. I have a two shelf rack on order to sit next to my five shelf rack. The new rack will hold my previous two channel amps, which will power the front. The current Sunfire TGA-5400 amp will power the center and rears. This should really boost the sound quality, especially when used as a stereo.

    More gear, more cables, more power cords. Greed is good. :smile:
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Thorton
    Thorton Posts: 1,324
    edited July 2014
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    BlueFox wrote: »
    I am expanding my HT. I have a two shelf rack on order to sit next to my five shelf rack. The new rack will hold my previous two channel amps, which will power the front. The current Sunfire TGA-5400 amp will power the center and rears. This should really boost the sound quality, especially when used as a stereo.

    More gear, more cables, more power cords. Greed is good. :smile:

    A man after my own heart. Go Blue! Wait I'm a Spartan fan.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
    Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
    DAC: Bricasti M1SE
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
    Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
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  • scottyboy76
    scottyboy76 Posts: 2,905
    edited July 2014
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    I call dibs on the carver 1.0, I will have to sell some stuff, so i encourage you to make the switch as soon as possible,LOL
    humpty dumpty was pushed
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,911
    edited July 2014
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    I'd sell everything Dan and start from scratch. Do your research, pick gear used to make your buck go further, even with cables. If your dead set on a receiver, then maybe move up to the lsim series, easier to drive. Or down to the rti or another brand requiring 8 ohms.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,065
    edited July 2014
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    Agreed,
    I also further believe the LSIM's are a much better sounding speaker and I already drove them with a SC-07 when they came out and they sounded remarkable. Not to take anything away from Pioneer's ICE amps or now called D3's ability to drive a 4 ohm load, they can and do it very well. We torched tested a SC-68 in our showroom with Magnepan 1.7's which are very hard to drive and they sounded exceptional and much better then anyone expected.
    So do what you must man , I have gone between separates and receivers over the years a few times now and with the Elite models , you don't miss much at all.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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