Subwoofer Build

villian
villian Posts: 412
edited June 2014 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
I have a spare FI Q series and Inifinity Perfect 12 subwoofers and am going to build a box for HT use with one of them. What do you guys think I should tune the box for? 25HZ? Any ideas? Any suggestions on amps to use?
Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,562
    edited June 2014
    17Hz
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  • villian
    villian Posts: 412
    edited June 2014
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    17Hz

    I was thinking 33.
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,772
    edited June 2014
    villian wrote: »
    I was thinking 33.

    33 for HT? Thant's not a sub, more of a MBM...
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,593
    edited June 2014
    villian wrote: »
    I was thinking 33.
    ken brydson wrote: »
    33 for HT? Thant's not a sub, more of a MBM...

    Yup...

    Shoot for at least 20, but sub 20 is where its at..

    Regarding amps, what ohm rating are the subs at?

    I am a big fan of the Dayton SA-1000 amp which can do up to 1k watts @ 4 ohms.

    P.S. recent article in HT shack suggested shooting for 7hz if possible :eek:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • villian
    villian Posts: 412
    edited June 2014
    ken brydson wrote: »
    33 for HT? Thant's not a sub, more of a MBM...

    33 for the women, but I suppose my HT does trump that! (Dunno if anyone picked up on the 33hz trick joke I made..) Any thoughts about going sealed instead of ported for HT use? I'm guessing I'll aim to port right at 20-25? Anyone know what most LFE signals consist of?
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)
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  • villian
    villian Posts: 412
    edited June 2014
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    Yup...

    Shoot for at least 20, but sub 20 is where its at..

    Regarding amps, what ohm rating are the subs at?

    I am a big fan of the Dayton SA-1000 amp which can do up to 1k watts @ 4 ohms.

    P.S. recent article in HT shack suggested shooting for 7hz if possible :eek:

    Awesome, thanks! Sub 20 seems surreal. Ears only hear down to 20, but I guess you can feel it all :D I might have to switch to something larger if sub 20 is going to be the case. Maybe an IA 21", pretty sure I still have at least the basket of one floating around. Pretty much everything I run has dual 4 ohm coils, the infinity perfect 12 should be a single 4. I'll wire them accordingly to whichever amp I go with. 2-8ohm preferred. Just depends.

    Should I even bother looking at parts express plate amps, or just shoot for a rackmount/standalone amp?
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,593
    edited June 2014
    villian wrote: »
    33 for the women, but I suppose my HT does trump that! Any thoughts about going sealed instead of ported for HT use? I'm guessing I'll aim to port right at 20-25? Anyone know what most LFE signals consist of?

    Sealed will require a MASSIVE box to get to 20 or below with a decent SPL due to the rolloff of the sub unless you use EQ such as a Linkwitz Transform.

    Ported will be the best shot for you but then drop like a rock after its tuning.

    LFE consists of whatever the producer adds to it. And while the % of sub 20hz signal in a movie may be less than 10%, it brings a grin to your face when you physically FEEL it without hearing it...

    Thats what I am shooting for.

    But can your subs even get that low is the question?
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • ViperZ
    ViperZ Posts: 2,046
    edited June 2014
    Sealed has to be quite large for those frequencies, but not that large. Check out NHT SubTwo - dual-10, 21Hz at -3dB, sealed enclosure.

    And regarding hearing down to 20Hz. You FEEL the real bass. My Velodyne ULD-15 15" sealed (again, not that big IMHO) goes down to 18Hz, and it's awesome!
    Panasonic PT-AE4000U projector for movies
    Carada 106" Precision Series (Classic Cinema White)
    Denon AVR-X3600H pre/pro
    Outlaw 770 7-channel amplifier
    B&W CDM1-SE fronts
    B&W CDM-CNT center
    B&W CDM1 rears on MoPADs
    JBL SP8CII in-ceiling height speakers
    Samsung DTB-H260F OTA HDTV tuner
    DUAL NHT SubTwo subwoofers
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-Ray player
    Belkin PF60 Power Center
    Harmony 1100 RF remote with RF extender
    Sony XBR-X950G 55" 4K HDR Smart TV + PS3 in the living room
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,562
    edited June 2014
    I got a buddy who built a sonotube tuned to 17Hz... U571-Pearl Harbor movie will make you feel like someone just unloaded a viscous body punch right in the chest area.....you can over pressure a room and on his it certainly can hurt your ear drums from pressure.
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  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    edited June 2014
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I got a buddy who built a sonotube tuned to 17Hz... U571-Pearl Harbor movie will make you feel like someone just unloaded a viscous body punch right in the chest area.....you can over pressure a room and on his it certainly can hurt your ear drums from pressure.
    That's one of my plans, if I get to it. They're relatively easy to build and tune.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,772
    edited June 2014
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I got a buddy who built a sonotube tuned to 17Hz... U571-Pearl Harbor movie will make you feel like someone just unloaded a viscous body punch right in the chest area.....you can over pressure a room and on his it certainly can hurt your ear drums from pressure.

    Sounds like my PCPlus :smile:
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  • villian
    villian Posts: 412
    edited June 2014
    I have one enclosure right now that will do a cool running 158db, but that's at 66hz! Another will do 140's at 45ish. I'm not too worried about spl, I'm just wanting to get the right bass extension and get something that'll thump well below hearing level. Just for those sound effects that need it.
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)
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  • jon s
    jon s Posts: 905
    edited June 2014
    villian wrote: »
    I have one enclosure right now that will do a cool running 158db, but that's at 66hz! Another will do 140's at 45ish. I'm not too worried about spl, I'm just wanting to get the right bass extension and get something that'll thump well below hearing level. Just for those sound effects that need it.

    158dB? You know that 140dB is the threshold of pain for the ears? 150dB is the level of standing directly in front of a speaker at a rock concert. 127dB is where permanent ear damage occurs...
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited June 2014
    Those spl levels are car interior boosted. The Q12 fs is 34hz so tuning under 25 or so isn't possible. It was made for high spl in car interiors and not for HT low end support.

    For low end HT use, you need to look for drivers with fs around 22 or so.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • villian
    villian Posts: 412
    edited June 2014
    jon s wrote: »
    158dB? You know that 140dB is the threshold of pain for the ears? 150dB is the level of standing directly in front of a speaker at a rock concert. 127dB is where permanent ear damage occurs...

    Some of us like it loud :) Nothing compares to the last big project I helped build. 2 x 21" Incriminator Audio Death Penalty's on 8 kilowatts of constant power. 160+ DB easy. All packed inside of a tiny tercel.
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)
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  • villian
    villian Posts: 412
    edited June 2014
    Dennis Gardner wrote: »
    Those spl levels are car interior boosted. The Q12 fs is 34hz so tuning under 25 or so isn't possible. It was made for high spl in car interiors and not for HT low end support.

    For low end HT use, you need to look for drivers with fs around 22 or so.

    The Q series is a 15, but regardless I'll probably stick with the Infinity Perfect 12. 22hz fs.
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited June 2014
    It doesn't matter, the Q 15 won't play lower than the 12. Its fs is still the same. It won't go much lower than 27hz or so. With HT it is about how low they go, not high loud they go. Movie tracks have quite a bit of info under 24 hz or so that really make an impact in huge scenes, that would be lost on a woofer designed to resonate at 34hz.

    Again, that woofer was designed for lots of 30-60hz sound, but none at under 20hz.

    The 22 hz speaker is a much better choice for HT, it is funny that a 12 could be better than a top notch 15, but it was the physics of the design that does it.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • villian
    villian Posts: 412
    edited June 2014
    Dennis Gardner wrote: »
    It doesn't matter, the Q 15 won't play lower than the 12. Its fs is still the same. It won't go much lower than 27hz or so. With HT it is about how low they go, not high loud they go. Movie tracks have quite a bit of info under 24 hz or so that really make an impact in huge scenes, that would be lost on a woofer designed to resonate at 34hz.

    Again, that woofer was designed for lots of 30-60hz sound, but none at under 20hz.

    What are you even talking about? I've already stated that I'm using the INFINITY KAPPA PERFECT 12, which has an Fs of 22hz. The FI (Brand) Q series (Model) 15 (Size) I have won't be used, because like you mention the Fs is too high (32). That said, the FI Q series 12" sub IS different than the 12" and has a slightly higher Fs of 34. Therefore the Q 15 will play lower than the Q 12. So once again, what are you talking about? No offense..but read my posts.
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)
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  • villian
    villian Posts: 412
    edited June 2014
    Next question. Anyone here built any Sonos tube enclosures? I'll probably be doing that, but I've only built traditional and fiberglass enclosures before, so a Sonostube is new to me.
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited June 2014
    What I meant was at 32 or 34hz fs, it won't matter which one you use. They both will suck for HT 20hz use. Good luck with your build.

    Search Sonotube Subwoofer.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • villian
    villian Posts: 412
    edited June 2014
    Dennis Gardner wrote: »
    What I meant was at 32 or 34hz fs, it won't matter which one you use. They both will suck for HT 20hz use. Good luck with your build.

    Search Sonotube Subwoofer.

    Oh I agree, that's why I've decided to go with the 12" Perfect Kappa. Thanks for the post about Fs, I almost forgot to check on the FI before considering it.
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,562
    edited June 2014
    villian wrote: »
    Next question. Anyone here built any Sonos tube enclosures? I'll probably be doing that, but I've only built traditional and fiberglass enclosures before, so a Sonostube is new to me.

    Talk about reading post's:rolleyes:
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,652
    edited June 2014
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I got a buddy who built a sonotube tuned to 17Hz... U571-Pearl Harbor movie will make you feel like someone just unloaded a viscous body punch right in the chest area.....you can over pressure a room and on his it certainly can hurt your ear drums from pressure.

    I don't know what you mean pitdogg2. :loneranger:
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,593
    edited June 2014
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    I don't know what you mean pitdogg2. :loneranger:

    no_one_expects_the_spanish_inquisition_by_simzer-d5bxjqp.png


    thehehehehehe
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • villian
    villian Posts: 412
    edited June 2014
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Talk about reading post's:rolleyes:

    I asked if "anyone here" has built a sono tube, not their buddy. Something I comprehend wrong?
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)
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  • jon s
    jon s Posts: 905
    edited June 2014
    villian wrote: »
    Some of us like it loud :) Nothing compares to the last big project I helped build. 2 x 21" Incriminator Audio Death Penalty's on 8 kilowatts of constant power. 160+ DB easy. All packed inside of a tiny tercel.

    I'm surprised the Tercel didn't shake itself apart...
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited June 2014
    There are Kappa Perfect builds around the net
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • Tronman
    Tronman Posts: 72
    edited June 2014
    villian wrote: »
    I have a spare FI Q series and Inifinity Perfect 12 subwoofers and am going to build a box for HT use with one of them. What do you guys think I should tune the box for? 25HZ? Any ideas? Any suggestions on amps to use?

    Have you tried using WINISD - It is great for tuning and designing you subwoofer

    http://www.linearteam.dk/?pageid=winisd
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  • villian
    villian Posts: 412
    edited June 2014
    Tronman wrote: »
    Have you tried using WINISD - It is great for tuning and designing you subwoofer

    http://www.linearteam.dk/?pageid=winisd

    Yep :)
    Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. :)
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,562
    edited June 2014
    villian wrote: »
    I asked if "anyone here" has built a sono tube, not their buddy. Something I comprehend wrong?

    Nope your reading is just fine O bulbous one........I WAS part of the build.... I HAVE the PLANS to the build....

    small details that escapes you...
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