Anyone using Crown amps?
Comments
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So we have quite a few Crown haters here eh?
Sure do, but there's a few people out there that will recognize them for the high quality, low cost amps that they are. I have yet to see a studio without a rack full of Crown Amps. There's a reason for that..
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?159711-Powering-with-non-HT-amps..like-Pro-PA-DJ-Ampsnooshinjohn wrote: »Crown/Emotiva... whats the difference?
LOL.... just kidding everyone...
Fanless/Ultra Quiet fans vs Normal Fan (That may or may not come on in a HT environment). That's going to be your biggest difference.
Here's some interesting posts from the other Crown amps vs Emotiva/etc thread.I would also point out that the Lexicon DD-8 uses the same DriveCore amplification for that home theater amp. (As the Crown XLS line)The new Crown XLS amp are well reviewed for home theater use, and the fans only run under heavy load. Buy one from guitar center to try it, and if you don't like it, return it without hassle or money lost. The only way you will really know if you like it is to get your ears on an amp.It's a little shocking to read through this post and feel the prejudiced comments and narrow-minded views expressed. Pro amps are used for live performance amplification, public venues, DJ work, and in the studios where the very music you're listening to is being both monitored and recorded. Not all pro amps use fans. Not all pro amps use cheap parts. And certainly not all pro amps sound harsh or don't have the resolution an audiophile craves. The latest, greatest $2000 receiver boasting 150/wpc x 7 may wimp out faster under real world conditions with good speakers - not some white van junk - than that beat up 100/wpc old pro amp without the glitter and hyped price. Good pro amps - just like good home amps - put the build quality where it counts and one of the main places is the power supply. Every time I see some 'high end' receiver boasting x-amount of power per channel, I check for its weight and electrical rating. That 150/wpc x 7 that weighs 30 pounds is a "dog that ain't gonna hunt as we say in the South." I've used various Crown and QSC amps and now have a Crest 7001 that I've been listening to all evening driving some Energy Veritas V-6.2 speakers. The high headroom of the amp gives the music an effortless quality at all volume levels and I have found it much more realistic with clarity and dynamic punch even at low level listening late at night. That same power and clarity brought some SDA SRS 2.3TL speakers to life and made them sing in a way a highly vaunted Krell Class A 100/wpc could not. It was clean and clear, but didn't have the balls to walk the walk. The only issue with the Crest is the fan. Bottom line: listen without prejudice and you will be surprised at the quality and bargains that are out there.Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo.
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Fine. All amps sound the same. You happy?
How hard is it to believe that amps are made for different purposes. All dislikes towards Crown and other amps are for their 2 channel applications. Nobody says Crown amps aren't built with quality, they just aren't built with quality sound. That's not in their intended design.
Not sure who that was intended for, but I'll give a brief comment..
Crown amps are oftentimes used in the recording process of the very music you're listening to, so certaintly some Crown amps are built for sound quality. They weren't purpose built to be guitar amps or anything like that, they were purpose built for all around high quality, high output amplification.Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. -
Fine. All amps sound the same. You happy?
How hard is it to believe that amps are made for different purposes. All dislikes towards Crown and other amps are for their 2 channel applications. Nobody says Crown amps aren't built with quality, they just aren't built with quality sound. That's not in their intended design.
No kidding I just get tired of all the pro-amp folks saying "They're the same but less money"... I do not care what the heck you run just quick try to convert all the other folks who would rather have something a little better. Pro-amp'ers to me are like the door to door Jehovah witness's/ Mormons trying to convert my religion .....or whatever....
geesh give it a break. So pro-amp'ers tell us why you don't run pro sound speakers with those pro amps? they should sound just the same as home audio or better. -
Looks like the TROLL is still at it, and still exhibiting no reading comprehension skills. :rolleyes:Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
While some points taken from both sides, I don't like blanket statements when anyone brings up a pro amp that they are flat out bad for home use.
Of course, my Rotel RB-990BX sounds better than this D-75 but it is in no way bad sounding.
I listened few hours on this D-75 with an Alesis USB6 as pre-amp and enjoyed it.
I know bad sounding amp when I hear it within few songs.
I've heard few A/V and integrated receivers that sound like crap compared to the D-75.
It can't compete with dedicated mid/high level home amps but I'm sure they are not as bad as hundreds others.
No flame wars...
Klipsch RB81, KG3.5, B&W DM602.5, Polk.
Subwoofers: Klipsch RW10, Triad ProSub Bronze. -
Using 1 XTi1002 and 3 XTi2002 in my 2 channel rig."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Sure do, but there's a few people out there that will recognize them for the high quality, low cost amps that they are. I have yet to see a studio without a rack full of Crown Amps. There's a reason for that.
East/West Recording
Not a single piece of Crown gear in the entire studio.
Ocean Way
Not a single piece of Crown gear in the entire studio.
Black Rock Studios
No Crown gear here either.
Blackbird Studio
Starting to see a trend yet?
Atrium Studio
Nope...none here either...
Windmill Lane
The insane Irish aren't using any Crown gear...
Vega Studio
Maybe the French use Crown...nope...sure don't...
Tree Sound Studio
They gotta be rockin' Crown in the Dirty South...or not.
Avatar Studios
Guess folks like Diana Krall or Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, John Mayer, Trey Anastasio, Muse, Josh Groban, Donald Fagen, Norah Jones, Diana Krall, My Morning Jacket, Kings of Leon and Bruno Mars REALLY wanted to be recorded with Crown equipment...oh...wait...none here either.
Kore Studios
No sir...they don't like it.
Echo Mountain
No Crown esta aqui...
ICP Studios
Considered by many in the industry as the "Disneyland" of recording studios...surely THEY must have at least 1 piece of Crown gear...oh...wait...
Real World Studios
You know what is "Real"? Easily proving you wrong.
Dark Horse Recording
Country Boys and Girls getting down on the farm (without their Crown gear apparently...)
Teldex
Es gibt keine Crown Gang hier
Paragon Studios
Making magic without Crown.
Capitol Records Studios
Arguably one of the most famous of those listed and it sports exactly zero Crown gear.
Tarquin Records
Dang...I was hoping to notch one up for villain here with their extensive list of gear...but alas...no Crown.
Greenhouse Studios
And the survey says....BZZZZZZZZT. We're sorry, no Crown at this Icelandic hot spot.
Sunset Sound
One of the best discographies of any studio and yet not a Crown to be had...
Dreamland Studios
WAI U NO GOTS DA CROWNS?!?
NRG Recording
Strange things are afoot at the Circle K...which uses no Crown gear, just like NRG...
And last, but certainly not least,
Abbey Road
Arguably the most famous recording studio in the UK and possibly the world...doesn't use Crown gear...at all.
You see, music producers are very picky about what they use in their studios. Artists choose to record at studios with great reputations. Crown doesn't have a single piece of gear in any of those listed above and most of those are arguably some of the best recording studios on the planet.
Mystery, Crown isn't bad for the money. It serves its place in the market just fine. But as you stated, to expect it to go toe to toe with mid to high level audiophile gear is going to be a naive expectation at best.
The funny part is, I agree with Monk and Villain on one aspect...the modern gear is fine for some uses. But it is by no means a juggernaut in the industry by any means."Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
While some points taken from both sides, I don't like blanket statements when anyone brings up a pro amp that they are flat out bad for home use.
The arguments arise when the "other side" claims that people are dumb for buying brands like Krell or Mark Levinson or Pass Labs when Crown or Behringer will do just as well.
*That* blanket statement causes huge amounts of contention.
Notice how nobody has chastised me for buying and using an Emotiva XPR-5 in my HT? The reason is, because I will readily admit that there is much better available in the market. I don't claim it is better than an amp costing much more and I don't think it is the end all be all of available amps. It is those who do who get chastised.
Hell, Realistic made some solid gear in its heyday. But nobody is claiming that it is better than Yamaha, Marantz or Pioneer gear of the same era."Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
East/West Recording
Not a single piece of Crown gear in the entire studio.
Ocean Way
Not a single piece of Crown gear in the entire studio.
Black Rock Studios
No Crown gear here either.
Blackbird Studio
Starting to see a trend yet?
Atrium Studio
Nope...none here either...
Windmill Lane
The insane Irish aren't using any Crown gear...
Vega Studio
Maybe the French use Crown...nope...sure don't...
Tree Sound Studio
They gotta be rockin' Crown in the Dirty South...or not.
Avatar Studios
Guess folks like Diana Krall or Paul McCartney, Paul Simon, John Mayer, Trey Anastasio, Muse, Josh Groban, Donald Fagen, Norah Jones, Diana Krall, My Morning Jacket, Kings of Leon and Bruno Mars REALLY wanted to be recorded with Crown equipment...oh...wait...none here either.
Kore Studios
No sir...they don't like it.
Echo Mountain
No Crown esta aqui...
ICP Studios
Considered by many in the industry as the "Disneyland" of recording studios...surely THEY must have at least 1 piece of Crown gear...oh...wait...
Real World Studios
You know what is "Real"? Easily proving you wrong.
Dark Horse Recording
Country Boys and Girls getting down on the farm (without their Crown gear apparently...)
Teldex
Es gibt keine Crown Gang hier
Paragon Studios
Making magic without Crown.
Capitol Records Studios
Arguably one of the most famous of those listed and it sports exactly zero Crown gear.
Tarquin Records
Dang...I was hoping to notch one up for villain here with their extensive list of gear...but alas...no Crown.
Greenhouse Studios
And the survey says....BZZZZZZZZT. We're sorry, no Crown at this Icelandic hot spot.
Sunset Sound
One of the best discographies of any studio and yet not a Crown to be had...
Dreamland Studios
WAI U NO GOTS DA CROWNS?!?
NRG Recording
Strange things are afoot at the Circle K...which uses no Crown gear, just like NRG...
And last, but certainly not least,
Abbey Road
Arguably the most famous recording studio in the UK and possibly the world...doesn't use Crown gear...at all.
You see, music producers are very picky about what they use in their studios. Artists choose to record at studios with great reputations. Crown doesn't have a single piece of gear in any of those listed above and most of those are arguably some of the best recording studios on the planet.
Mystery, Crown isn't bad for the money. It serves its place in the market just fine. But as you stated, to expect it to go toe to toe with mid to high level audiophile gear is going to be a naive expectation at best.
The funny part is, I agree with Monk and Villain on one aspect...the modern gear is fine for some uses. But it is by no means a juggernaut in the industry by any means.
That's a well deserved slam dunk, in your face STFU if I ever saw one. Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Here is your chance to step up and prove us Crown amp users wrong.That's a well deserved slam dunk, in your face STFU if I ever saw one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KRK-CROWN-Recording-Studio-Speakers-with-Amplifiers-Processor-MUST-SELL-FAST-/371059305451?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Speakers_Monitors&hash=item5664dbabeb :cheesygrin: -
Let's see, that stuff has been sitting there unused for what.....10 years! Not to mention the producer just left it. Perhaps that alone should tell you something, then again perhaps not. :rolleyes:Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I think something is being missed here. A lot of studios are NOT trying to listen to the BEST possible sound in the studio but engineer the best possible sound on most of the equipment those of us who will listen to their music use. Perhaps the use of Crown amps is not a bad thing in a mid-level studio.
What I do know is that there is an ABUNDANCE of videos on youtube by studio guys who endlessly rag on Behringer products, how badly they are constructed and how often they fail, hum, distort, etc. Pro amps have their place but let's get real. I remember seeing some guy compare a $200 Behringer to my NAD below and say he couldn't hear the difference. I say a hearing test is in order! lol
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I said any of these things...The fact that studios use them must mean they are good for stereo reproduction, right?The arguments arise when the "other side" claims that people are dumb for buying brands like Krell or Mark Levinson or Pass Labs when Crown or Behringer will do just as well.
???Pro amps, or any amps, shouldn't be compared to AVR's or similar receivers. I don't like blanket statements from people saying 'if studios use them, then everyone should'.The funny part is, I agree with Monk and Villain on one aspect...the modern gear is fine for some uses. But it is by no means a juggernaut in the industry by any means.
Agreed. Not the best by far, but for certain uses at certain price points..they're great.I think something is being missed here. A lot of studios are NOT trying to listen to the BEST possible sound in the studio but engineer the best possible sound on most of the equipment those of us who will listen to their music use. Perhaps the use of Crown amps is not a bad thing in a mid-level studio.
Bingo.Too many good quotes to list..waiting for some fresh ammo. -
Dang! use guys are gonna make me get those Crowns out of the basement and hook them up to my 2 channel system.Let's see, that stuff has been sitting there unused for what.....10 years! Not to mention the producer just left it. Perhaps that alone should tell you something, then again perhaps not. :rolleyes:
Go ahead, make my day. :twisted: -
Hey, the Beatles used Altec speakers at Abby Road.
Anyone who uses anything less are fools! -
I was thinking of dumping the Crown amps and simplifying my system.
Does anyone have any experience with these?
Seriously. -
rednedtugent, can you post a bigger pic or just tell us what it is?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
That's T-amp (lepai) may be.rednedtugent, can you post a bigger pic or just tell us what it is?
But that should be a separate thread...
Klipsch RB81, KG3.5, B&W DM602.5, Polk.
Subwoofers: Klipsch RW10, Triad ProSub Bronze. -
Thats it!
That is going to be my next amp. I want to play with it
then gift it. Sorry about thread jumping.That's T-amp (lepai) may be.
But that should be a separate thread... -
Good if you like listening at very low volume levels.rednedtugent wrote: »I was thinking of dumping the Crown amps and simplifying my system.
Does anyone have any experience with these?
Seriously."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
rednedtugent wrote: »Hey, the Beatles used Altec speakers at Abby Road.
Anyone who uses anything less are fools!
DSC_8924 by mhardy6647, on Flickr
As if I would argue with that? ;-)
The Beatles sound danged good on Altec Duplexes (even though they were using 605s and not 604s at Abbey Road in "those days").
... and, while I should probably know better than add anything else to this thread... it seems (barely) worth pointing out that the D-75, D-150(A), and the DC-300 were absolutely marketed to, and (in some cases!) embraced by, consumer hifi buffs in their time (1970s). The Discerning Ear in Baltimore, for example - at the time, IMO, the snootiest of the hifi stores in the Baltimore area - old Crown electronics (not just their aforementioned reel to reel decks) next to Audio Research, conrad-johnson, Nakamichi, Onkyoand... well, whatever other consumer brands they were selling at the time (that I've managed to forget in the intervening decades).
FWIW, Stereophile's John Atkinson rated the above-mentioned DC-300 as one of the 100 most important hifi products of Stereophile's first forty years.
http://www.stereophile.com/features/709/
His comments are pretty apt, I'd opine.[96]: Crown DC300A power amplifier
Stereophile review: Autumn 1968 (Vol.2 No.10). In hindsight, the Crown sounded like early solid-state. But it was powerful, bombproof, and drove the early days of the progressive rock revolution and what was to become high-end audio.
It might even be worth noting that #100 was "Polk Cobra Cable Speaker Cable" (?!), #98 was a two-way tie (Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck and the Advent 201 noise reduction system) and#97 was the AR-3a (which, he noted, was not reviewed by Stereophile?!). -
love it when MHardy posts that speaker! :cheesygrin:
o.k. dragged up the pioneer sx9000 and two crown Com-tech 210s and hooked them up to the RT7's.
No fan noise as it won't kick on until it needs it. Plenty of warm power.
There IS an audible hum. Think it's from the amps...
I would like to add that the innerconnects I'm using are one step up from coat hangers so that doesn't help.
not bad for what I payed for them. (saved from re-cycle) give me time to adjust my ears.
dang, foiled again by the iPhone. -
rednedtugent wrote: »... give me time to adjust my ears.
dang, foiled again by the iPhone.
... are you in the Southern Hemisphere or is the mounting position of those a tweak of some sort? ;-)rednedtugent wrote: »love it when MHardy posts that speaker! :cheesygrin:
...
De nada... it's even better to listen to 'em... c'mon up/out some time and give 'em a listen!
DSC_8059 by mhardy6647, on Flickr -
... speaking of Flame... umm, I mean Phase Linear... the eagle-eyed may be able to spot a Phase Linear product in this photo of the low-rent side of the hifi room...
lowrentrack 012414 by mhardy6647, on Flickr -
I would like nothing better that to hear them some time!
Highway 61 and a refreshing beverage would be great too.
Genesis "Trick of the Tail" (remastered) on now thru my old Sony CDP-305.
I can go to about 12 o'clock (or is that 6 o'clock) I think I can make this setup sound o.k. if I flip it.mhardy6647 wrote: »... are you in the Southern Hemisphere or is the mounting position of those a tweak of some sort? ;-)
De nada... it's even better to listen to 'em... c'mon up/out some time and give 'em a listen!DSC_8059 by mhardy6647, on Flickr -
Drinkin' some Rwandan tea (with milk & sugar) as I type this... listening to VT Public Radio on a little Sangean table radio, though...
it's a drizzly, cool, clammy almost-summer evening in Northern New England... -
mhardy6647 wrote: »DSC_8924 by mhardy6647, on Flickr
As if I would argue with that? ;-)
The Beatles sound danged good on Altec Duplexes (even though they were using 605s and not 604s at Abbey Road in "those days").
... and, while I should probably know better than add anything else to this thread... it seems (barely) worth pointing out that the D-75, D-150(A), and the DC-300 were absolutely marketed to, and (in some cases!) embraced by, consumer hifi buffs in their time (1970s). The Discerning Ear in Baltimore, for example - at the time, IMO, the snootiest of the hifi stores in the Baltimore area - old Crown electronics (not just their aforementioned reel to reel decks) next to Audio Research, conrad-johnson, Nakamichi, Onkyoand... well, whatever other consumer brands they were selling at the time (that I've managed to forget in the intervening decades).
FWIW, Stereophile's John Atkinson rated the above-mentioned DC-300 as one of the 100 most important hifi products of Stereophile's first forty years.
http://www.stereophile.com/features/709/
His comments are pretty apt, I'd opine.
It might even be worth noting that #100 was "Polk Cobra Cable Speaker Cable" (?!), #98 was a two-way tie (Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck and the Advent 201 noise reduction system) and#97 was the AR-3a (which, he noted, was not reviewed by Stereophile?!).
I have a friend who is a software engineer (RPI grad) who used that SAME cabinet building technique you used for the Altecs in order to salvage his Boston Acoustics A200 drivers/crossovers! It's "unique" to say the least! But it WORKS!
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
http://www.andrew-robinson-online.com/review-crown-xls-drivecore-series-amplifier/
I use the XLS1500's. They really make my Polks sing. In my bi-amp setup I have independent volume control of woofers vs tweeters in the same cabinet. I can tailor the highs and lows to my taste from recording to recording if needed. Pretty cool. These amps also have adjustable xo's and you can power only the frequencies needed (bi-amping) making the amp even more efficient. The also have high/low pass filters, and have true balanced in's. I never thought I would like Class D amps, much less a pro audio amp, but the fidelity and power of these amps have changed my mind on all that.Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One
Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151 -
Loved the list of studios that ZLTFUL provided but there were some way more heavy hitters that need noteable mention. My problem is I do not know what these studios used except for 1 and these are not in any order.
1. Columbia Recording Studios--N.Y.C. where the late Phil Ramon did most of his work and I did speak to him and they/he used McIntosh in both the the studio and his home. Dylan,Super Session,Miles Davis
2.Walley Heider--S.F.
3.Criteria Sound--FL.--Tom Dowd producing
4.Muscle Shaols--Alabama for all the southern boys w/ that great backing band
5.Electric Ladyland Studios---enough said--Eddie Kramer at the controls
6.Western Recorders--L.A.--for the Beach Boys and most of Capitol Records heavy hitters of the mid to late 60/70s
7.Record Plant --Sausolito Cal.---Van Morrison,Fleetwoodmac, many others
8. Then you have the Stomes Mobile that they did rent out to other groups.
Of course there were hundreds more all over the place but these were very famous in their day.2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E
H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-
Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
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