RTi8 Rear Firing PowerPort/Acoustic Panel Behind Speaker

aboroth00

DSkip wrote: »

I'm well aware of localization of bass. Theory is great, but it's not until under 40 hz that I start to lose the localization aspect. On a good system, you get textures and imaging that you just aren't going to get without stereo subs. 80 hz isn't bass, it's mid bass and still able to localize very well.

It's not theory. It's proven in R&D, double blind tests and computational models as well as in-room measurements. In regard to whether you can localize at ~80hz, you might be hearing the harmonics of those frequencies which are localizable. With regard to 80hz is bass or not, it's depends on your semantics. Mid bass is still "bass" it's just mid-bass. There's lower bass and upper bass as well. But that's not the point.

Tom Holman, the man behind THX, did extensive research and he is the one who figured that 80hz was the cut off point for localizabibility. That's why 80hz is the THX standard for the crossover frequency.

There are additional papers such as the white paper from Harman that indicate stereobass is not advantageous: http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20140508/13680.pdf

In addition, most popular music has mono-bass, with classical music being stereo mic-ed. However since most music you listen to is mono-bass there is no advantageous in having stereo bass. So largely stereo bass is a myth... There are advantageous though, but proper bass management across your LP is more important.

tonyb

aboroth00 wrote: »

Tom Holman, the man behind THX, did extensive research and he is the one who figured that 80hz was the cut off point for localizabibility. That's why 80hz is the THX standard for the crossover frequency.

There are additional papers such as the white paper from Harman that indicate stereobass is not advantageous: http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20140508/13680.pdf

.

Gotcha, so everyone should accept this and be happy ? You do realize audio...including the bass, is subjective and a matter of preferences...right ?

White papers...theory....THX....means diddly squat to me. I stopped long ago letting others dictate what I should be hearing and how to go about it. What should be right based on THEIR ears. Used as a guide...a baseline, cool...but not gospel that's for sure.

tonyb

DSkip wrote: »

Except for the fact that with a stereo array of subs, the mono bass is centered as it should be. I played around way too long in car audio to realize that 40 hz was 'good enough' to stop the localization of bass. 30 would've been ideal, but 40 was all I had to work with. That Wilson Alexia demo changed many things I used to take as fact, and even though I never believed that 80 hz was an ideal crossover in any sort of way, I didn't realize that bass could be front and center like I got with that demo.

Yep, ....no advantage to stereo bass ? Who are we kidding here ?

Proper bass management is off course important, but so is realism of bass slam that sounds as close to live as you can get. Slap you in the chest live....not necessarily heard, but felt. That's my kind of bass, and I prefer to get it from a set of speakers.

Skip, those Wilsons are 50k man. As a precursor, look for a used pair or demo pair of Legacy Aeris. New they are 17k, demos about 12k if you can find them. My Focus slap me in the chest feeding them 400 watts, can't imagine what the Aeris sound like with 1000 watts of built in ice power and a DSP engine.

Listening to some John Mellancamp now, Peaceful World....the bass is outstanding.

Hermitism

I just wanted to know if it was okay to have an acoustic panel behind my powerport. LOL

It seems that nothing in audio is ever set in stone...except F1's ten commandments

Polkie2009

Is it true that the chest pounding bass you feel at a live concert is around the 50 hz. level?

aboroth00

DSkip wrote: »

Except for the fact that with a stereo array of subs, the mono bass is centered as it should be. I played around way too long in car audio to realize that 40 hz was 'good enough' to stop the localization of bass. 30 would've been ideal, but 40 was all I had to work with. That Wilson Alexia demo changed many things I used to take as fact, and even though I never believed that 80 hz was an ideal crossover in any sort of way, I didn't realize that bass could be front and center like I got with that demo.

I think there's a little confusion here... By stereo array, i meant that the left signal goes to the left sub and right signal to the right sub. Because the bass info to the sub signal is mono, there is not much advantageous in running "stereo" subs. Having two subs does not mean they are necessarily stereo. Two subs might be better for evening out in-room response.

However, car audio would not be the best arena to evaluate localizability. In a car, there are a lot of things rattling, reflecting, and you can easily be hearing a harmonic or resonance of objects when playing frequencies above 80hz.

I've never had a problem having bass be front and center. With correct placement and bass management, bass will be front and center because you would be unable to localize it and thus it would be anchored front and center. However, visual cues also contributes to this in a way when you think the sound is coming from there your brain will place the sound there.

aboroth00

tonyb wrote: »

Yep, ....no advantage to stereo bass ? Who are we kidding here ?

Proper bass management is off course important, but so is realism of bass slam that sounds as close to live as you can get. Slap you in the chest live....not necessarily heard, but felt. That's my kind of bass, and I prefer to get it from a set of speakers.

Bass management produces the realism of bass slam and closeness to live... and also felt... You can do this without having wild peaks and nulls. I believe audiophiles underestimate the contribution of in room response. A subwoofer and bass management is the very tools to help with these problems. It's not about wattage or power, it's about control over your acoustic environment.

Bass is not stereo, it's mixed into mono. The advantage would be moot. Not kidding any body here.