Ripping & Streaming blu-ray and DVD's

EndersShadow

So many of us store our music digitally now... but MOST of us are still using blu-ray discs and DVD movies.

Well I have been studying and waiting and waiting for YEARS to get the "right" piece(s) of gear that is low cost and allows you to play movies easily. Most devices I found/read up on had either a limitation of resolution (720p) or audio (no DTS-MA or TrueHD), or were in some other way compromised in their software, or simply were a bit more than I wanted to spend. I finally found the right short term solution for me and that journey is over for now.

I wanted something that was super easy to use, could be controlled by a Harmony One and was under 200 bucks give or take. It needed to be able to stream 1080p and lossless audio. I needed flexibility in adding storage, and I needed that storage to be directly connected. My setup is wireless right now and streaming wireless as we all know is NOT a great idea for files of this size. I didn't want to deal with lag or dropout.

Here is what I came up with. I purchased a WD Live TV refurb off ebay for 65 dollars. I purchased a refurbished 3TB external hard-drive off Newegg for 96 dollars (I now have to pay tax as their is a distribution center in Indianapolis ). I downloaded MakeMKV. And with that I have all the capability I need. Everyone's setup and situation is different so this may not work for you, but if it does, this is a VERY low cost way to consolidate everything into a easy to use device.

My Long term aspirations are to move to a NAS or HTPC/NAS combo as I don't know if I will ever want to stream movies to any room other than my HT room. It will be running XBMC as its OS and will allow me to connect up to 4-6 3TB internal hard drives...

But for now the below is a VERY GOOD short term solution that will keep me happy for quite some time, and prove to my wife the convenience of ripped movies and hopefully help me transition to my long term goals easier when the time comes. But back to the equipment at hand. Below is a breakdown of what I like and don't like about each device. As with all things you make compromises on the things you can to get what you want. I think these are the BEST compromises I can make to still attain my goals.

1. WD Live TV.

Pros:

Due to a firmware update in December of 2013 this device can now send out DTS-MA and PCM Multichannel (TrueHD I think) via HDMI. Previously it was limited to Dolby 5.1. To my knowledge this is the only device that can do both lossless audio and 1080p video under 100 dollars. Most low cost streamers have a limitation in one of those two areas (video/audio). The WD Live TV can also run custom theme's so you can make it looks better than it does by default. However for now I am simply using it as it was setup. I get to see the titles of my movies and a picture of the disc cover.

You have 2 USB ports (one front, one back) so you can connect 2 devices by default. In addition if you connect a powered USB hub, the device will read all the drives you connect to it. This allows LOTS of storage ability.

This device is already setup for Harmony users so you can program your Harmony One in a couple mins to work with this device.

Its small and easily hidden in your rack. You also get your standard apps like Hulu, Netflix, etc. I didn't buy it for those things as those apps are pretty much on every device I already own (Smart TV, Xbox 360, WD Live TV, etc). I bought it for JUST the MKV capability.

Streams MOST video and audio formats. If you dont have a Squeezebox, this would work well provided you dont mind having to use a remote and TV screen to navigate your music.

Cons:

The stock thumbgen program (that loads info on the movies, etc) can run VERY slow over the network if you are using a NAS. That is why I opted to use a storage device directly connected to it. I can speed up access time. In addition I am currently wireless so I wanted to keep lag/packet loss to a minimum.

Firmware/theme's while they work good, require a bit of tweaking to get it to work. You also end up with lots of cords if you end up having to run a USB hub + tons of drives. In this aspect a HTPC w/ lots of internal HDD's is easier since its one powercord and your done.

2. 3TB Segate External HDD

Pro's:

Most of us know all about external drives so I wont spend tons of time talking about it. Easy all in one solution that can be moved around to transfer files to multiple places so you can rip the movies at say your desktop and then transfer them via USB to the external drive.

Cons:

More cords

3. MakeMKV

Pro's:

This is a FREE PROGRAM. It allows you to open up a blu-ray and save it to your computer as a MKV file (or others I believe). Its greatest feature though is that it allows you to save out JUST what you want. You want just the movie and 5.1 sound. You can do that. You select what parts of the disc you want (Previews, Bonus Features, Audio Tracks, etc). This allows you to save out JUST what you need. It is fairly easy to use and oh did I say it was FREE

Cons:

This con is pretty much for EVERY blu-ray/DVD ripping program. The end file is VERY large. On average each of my blu-ray rips are around 40 gigs. Many folks are using a program called Handbrake to compress the video down to a smaller file size. Right now my library isnt large enough for me to have to do that I think. In addition the purist in my just doesnt want to compress anything as I dont know how big a deal that ends up being video wise. I also just dont have enough time to do my research on it for now, so I am just not going to worry about it.

.
I am now in the process of ripping all my movies to the external drive. Now if we need to watch a movie, we simply queue up the WD Live TV and can browse ALL our movies w/o having to get up or make a move. Its just that simple.

So thats my setup. I have been busy ripping my movies this past week and doing it a couple at a time. I rip them on my desktop computer to one of its internal drives and then copy them over as I get a couple done. We've watched a couple movies (Up, Transformers, Toy Story 3) off the setup and its worked flawlessly. There is NOTHING like seeing the DTS-MA come on and then hear how much better it sounds then renting movies off on-demand. My wife likes it because we can easily pull up movies for Skye and get right to the movie w/o the previews. She also likes that the Harmony One remote works with it and it super small and hidden away. Also she loves how there are no buttons for Skye to mess with or hit and then eject the movie, etc. I can now focus on actually BUYING movies we will watch more than once on blu-ray and then easily add it to my library as I go.

Now by no means does this mean I wont be using on-demand. Not EVERY movie is worth purchasing and then ripping. I foresee a ton of Disney/Pixar animated movies in my future and I am ok with that. By watching a ripped copy you also dont wear out the disc either and its LOTS more portable if you travel. Just take the WD Live and external drive with you along with a HDMI cable and the remote and your pretty much set (assuming you ripped the right formats ).

For all you guys using other methods, feel free to post a write up of your setup. Hopefully we can document our setups and help each other out.

tonyb

Holy smokes Dan, good write up. I have a more condensed version.....

I put a disk into the player and push play. LOL

EndersShadow

tonyb wrote: »

Holy smokes Dan, good write up. I have a more condensed version.....

I put a disk into the player and push play. LOL

While that option is nice... It requires me to have my movies in a location I can get to easily. Right now we are happy with how things are laid out and there is no bookshelf or space for the movies to be held.

So now this little device has ALL our movies. And it can travel with me wherever we go.. Try taking 200 movies with you on vacation... not exactly super easy...

P.S. why I am talking to you Tony, your too old school ... You probably still use your VCR to record TV shows :biggrin::evil:

Hermitism

EndersShadow wrote: »

You probably still use your VCR to record TV shows

THAT'S JUST COLD!

I do. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Sometimes two things are on at the same time. You just can't beat The Blacklist on VHS.

Hermitism

Here is your answer...

http://gizmodo.com/sony-crams-3-700-blu-rays-worth-of-storage-in-a-single-1571508568?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook&utm_source=gizmodo_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Three Blu-Rays' worth of data can fit on one square inch of Sony's new wonder-tape.

tonyb

Just bustin' your balls Dan. Seriously, nice write up.

BTW....if your taking movies with you on vacation, I suggest you rethink what vacation means.lol

EndersShadow

tonyb wrote: »

Just bustin' your balls Dan. Seriously, nice write up.

BTW....if your taking movies with you on vacation, I suggest you rethink what vacation means.lol

I knew you were, hence my busting yours back.....

Thanks thought, I wanted to put it out there as its a very good simple solution for those of us on a budget.

PolkieMan

Nice write up, sounds like you are really into it.
My needs are simple, HTPC with HDMI video card, Blu-ray burner and 2TB hard drive, use DVD Fab Free for the ripping, DVD Shrink for the burn as needed. Blu-rays not so much use Aiseesoft convert down to a DVD.

EndersShadow

PolkieMan wrote: »

Nice write up, sounds like you are really into it.
My needs are simple, HTPC with HDMI video card, Blu-ray burner and 2TB hard drive, use DVD Fab Free for the ripping, DVD Shrink for the burn as needed. Blu-rays not so much use Aiseesoft convert down to a DVD.

Nice! I would love to build a HTPC and still plan on probably going that route (with a couple 3TB drives in it) but for now this was a cheap proof of concept for me. Its also a good intro to be able to upsell my wife on the HTPC

PolkieMan

I used to be a big gamer so my HTPC started out as hand me downs from upgraded gamer systems except for the case and big hard drive.

StantonZ

PolkieMan wrote: »

My needs are simple, HTPC with HDMI video card, Blu-ray burner and 2TB hard drive, use DVD Fab Free for the ripping, DVD Shrink for the burn as needed. Blu-rays not so much use Aiseesoft convert down to a DVD.

You bring up a point that I've come to agree with: the BD files are so large that you down-convert them to DVD anyway. While I can convert/rip both, the file sizes and software to play them are so different I've given up (at least for now) on trying load BDs onto any kind of server (I just watch them). I used to wonder if I would ever use those "free" DVDs they give you when you buy BDs now, but I've come to realize they will most likely be ripped to a media server someday. If I want pull out the projector (or access certain special features), I'll just spin the BD instead.

ViperZ

Thank you for the detailed summary. I have Thecus NAS with a 2TB drive in it (and an empty slot for 2nd drive), downloaded MakeMKV and Handbrake, but can't make myself to start ripping 200+ Blu-rays. Apparently Handbrake takes forever to do the conversion.

tonyb

Not to jump off track here, and if so apologies to Dan, but I have a question sort of related.

When you guys buy a movie, be it whatever format, how often do you watch the same movie ? I mean, I have 400+ discs, but I'll be damned if I want to watch those over and over again. I may revisit a handful of good ones but after months. Hardly ever watch the same movie twice unless it's exceptional.

So if your not inclined to watch the same movie over and over, or not often at all, what then is the point of downloading all these movies ? Do some of you guys actually watch Forest Gump 5 times a month ? Just curious as to what others viewing habits are...or am I the oddball ?

Don't answer that btw.

EndersShadow

tonyb wrote: »

Not to jump off track here, and if so apologies to Dan, but I have a question sort of related.

When you guys buy a movie, be it whatever format, how often do you watch the same movie ? I mean, I have 400+ discs, but I'll be damned if I want to watch those over and over again. I may revisit a handful of good ones but after months. Hardly ever watch the same movie twice unless it's exceptional.

So if your not inclined to watch the same movie over and over, or not often at all, what then is the point of downloading all these movies ? Do some of you guys actually watch Forest Gump 5 times a month ?

Tony, that is actually a very good question.

With your given situation then it would only be worth it to burn movies you actually watch OFTEN. Now I dont have a overly large collection of DVD's or even blu-rays compared to some. And add to that the fact that I only buy movies I will watch over and over again. With the advent of on-demand, the one and done type movies I just rent through that medium. If its worth watching over and over again then I buy it.

I am also making some "executive" calls on what movies I am ripping. Some I have found are simply not worth it (Season 6 of Nip Tuck, the first season of Fringe, etc). But a LARGE portion of my library are movies I would watch often (and even more so soon) such as Brave, Finding Nemo, Transformers (all 3), Lord of the Rings, Pacific Rim, X-Men etc.

I keep a Amazon wishlist of movies I want to actually own (v. rent) and that's the stuff that when I get it I burn it.

DVD's take up an average of 5 gigs per pop, so its not as big a deal if you include or dont on those compared to blu-ray (~30-60 gigs a pop).

Its also nice when friends come over and you are like "Hey wanna watch a movie...." and they of course say "Maybe... what do you have...." and you can just pull up the device and scroll through your library and if you find one, get right into playing it.

Tony... my example for you is the grandkids. If they watch Finding Nemo, Toy Story 1, 2 & 3 over and over and over... how nice would it be to let them just have a remote, select the movies they like to watch (for the millionth time) and go.

PS you are an oddball, but we all choose to ignore it

billbillw

Hah...I've been using WDTV Live for almost 2 years (I had a Hub first, but recently sold it and with a pair of the basic WDTV Live + 3TB of NAS storage).

I had no idea that they finally added DTS-HDMA! Thanks for letting me know. I guess I'll start ripping the full HDMA soundtrack instead of just DTS Core.

BTW, Handbrake works great to shrink those 40GB files down to 8-10GB with out any noticeable loss in image quality. Use one of their "nightly builds" to get better subtitle support. I use the normal setting, DTS Passthrough on audio, strict setting on anamorphic and leave the rest alone.

billbillw

ViperZ wrote: »

Thank you for the detailed summary. I have Thecus NAS with a 2TB drive in it (and an empty slot for 2nd drive), downloaded MakeMKV and Handbrake, but can't make myself to start ripping 200+ Blu-rays. Apparently Handbrake takes forever to do the conversion.

If you have a reasonable fast computer, the handbrake conversion is not what I would call time consuming. I have a PC with a Core i5 3570. Fast, but not anything close to bleeding edge. The MakeMKV rip takes 45-60 minutes depending on the length. The Handbrake conversion takes about 1 hour. This of course is assuming you leave it on Normal settings with quality of 20 (defaults to this). The only setting I change is for strict anamorphic, sound settings to passthrough and sometimes I burn in forced subtitles. If you switch to higher quality, it will take significantly longer but honestly, I can't see any improvement by the higher settings.

EndersShadow

billbillw wrote: »

Hah...I've been using WDTV Live for almost 2 years (I had a Hub first, but recently sold it and with a pair of the basic WDTV Live + 3TB of NAS storage).

I had no idea that they finally added DTS-HDMA! Thanks for letting me know. I guess I'll start ripping the full HDMA soundtrack instead of just DTS Core.

BTW, Handbrake works great to shrink those 40GB files down to 8-10GB with out any noticeable loss in image quality. Use one of their "nightly builds" to get better subtitle support. I use the normal setting, DTS Passthrough on audio, strict setting on anamorphic and leave the rest alone.

No problem. I almost snagged your Hub, but don't know if it supports lossless audio just yet. The WD Live I have verified myself the past few days so I know it works.

I may be hitting you up later for a tutorial or questions on Handbrake . Otherwise my 3TB drive is going to fill up super fast lol.

The DTS-MA and TrueHD support are only in the new firmware, so make sure to download it or your still screwed lol....

But that was for me the turning point.

I may end up just ripping all my blu-rays and then slowly moving them from my external to an internal to run through handbrake once I get it figured out, then back out to the external.....

billbillw

EndersShadow wrote: »

No problem. I almost snagged your Hub, but don't know if it supports lossless audio just yet. The WD Live I have verified myself the past few days so I know it works. I may be hitting you up later for a tutorial or questions on Handbrake . Otherwise my 3TB drive is going to fill up super fast lol.

The DTS-MA and TrueHD support are only in the new firmware, so make sure to download it or your still screwed lol....

But that was for me the turning point.

I may end up just ripping all my blu-rays and then slowly moving them from my external to an internal to run through handbrake once I get it figured out, then back out to the external.....

Not a whole lot to teach about Handbrake. I just use the nightly builds here:
http://handbrake.fr/nightly.php

The nightly build has added support for the PGS subtitles found in bluray movies. I only add the subtitles if the movie has forced subtitles (ie: when someone is speaking in another language).

Just install, start, open the single movie file.
Then I do the following:
In the output format pulldown, switch to MKV,
in the Picture tab, I just change from Loose to Anamorphic,
in the Audio tab, pulldown Codec and select DTS-HD passthrough (or AC3, DTS, etc., depending on original source)

IF the movie has forced subtitles, you have to figure out which subtitle track is correct. I usually preview in VLC for a few minutes and select the different subtitle tracks. You'd be looking for the one that doesn't put up subtitles when people are speaking English. Once you find that, go back to Handbrake, in the Subtitles tab, pulldown Add Track, then pull down and select the correct one (ie: English 1 (PGS), etc.) Then you must also click the boxes for forced only, and burn in.
That's it, select the save location and start. Walk away and 60-90 minutes later, your movie will be 1/3 the size.

EndersShadow

billbillw wrote: »

Not a whole lot to teach about Handbrake. I just use the nightly builds here:
http://handbrake.fr/nightly.php

The nightly build has added support for the PGS subtitles found in bluray movies. I only add the subtitles if the movie has forced subtitles (ie: when someone is speaking in another language).

Just install, start, open the single movie file.
Then I do the following:
In the output format pulldown, switch to MKV,
in the Picture tab, I just change from Loose to Anamorphic,
in the Audio tab, pulldown Codec and select DTS-HD passthrough (or AC3, DTS, etc., depending on original source)

IF the movie has forced subtitles, you have to figure out which subtitle track is correct. I usually preview in VLC for a few minutes and select the different subtitle tracks. You'd be looking for the one that doesn't put up subtitles when people are speaking English. Once you find that, go back to Handbrake, in the Subtitles tab, pulldown Add Track, then pull down and select the correct one (ie: English 1 (PGS), etc.) Then you must also click the boxes for forced only, and burn in.
That's it, select the save location and start. Walk away and 60-90 minutes later, your movie will be 1/3 the size.

What if the movie is already in MKV format w/ forced subtitles... can you still compress it?

billbillw

EndersShadow wrote: »

What if the movie is already in MKV format w/ forced subtitles... can you still compress it?

Are you talking about something that came straight from MakeMKV? If so, then yes, definitely. That's exactly what I do.

Handbrake pulls all the streams apart, recodes the video and remuxes everything neatly back into the MKV (or MP4 if so desired). It leaves out all the extra audio and subtitle tracks. Basically you are left with the video, one audio track, and whatever subtitle track(s) you select.

ViperZ

billbillw wrote: »

Are you talking about something that came straight from MakeMKV? If so, then yes, definitely. That's exactly what I do.

Handbrake pulls all the streams apart, recodes the video and remuxes everything neatly back into the MKV (or MP4 if so desired). It leaves out all the extra audio and subtitle tracks. Basically you are left with the video, one audio track, and whatever subtitle track(s) you select.

Bill, what is your final file size after Handbrake?

Also, why do you choose a specific screen size (anamorphic)?

Thanks!

P.S. My computer is ancient compared to yours (Q6600 with 8GB of DDR800 RAM).

billbillw

ViperZ wrote: »

Bill, what is your final file size after Handbrake?

Also, why do you choose a specific screen size (anamorphic)?

Thanks!

P.S. My computer is ancient compared to yours (Q6600 with 8GB of DDR800 RAM).

The final size varies a lot depending on the length of the movie and also the type of movie. Longer movies with action and/or lush backgrounds can be up to 12GB. Shorter animated movies can be as small as 3-4GB. They probably average 6-8GB.

Loose changes the screen height to be a certain multiple for easier encoding, strict keeps it as the original. I just prefer to keep it as the original.
Your Q6600 would hold its own, especially if you overclock it a bit (bump the FSB to 333?)
Prior to this i5, I had an older Phenom II hexacore and it was plenty fast as well.

PrazVT

I've been ripping blu-rays for a few years now - my process is usually:

1 - Rip w/ AnyDVDHD
2 - Encode via MeGui (1080p x264 + 5.1 AC3) (usually .m2ts for PS3 playback compatibility but that's just me)

For any movie under 2hrs, I usually target 8.5GB (1 dual layer dvd) for file size. If it's something longer, I'll just go bigger.

But you need some decent CPU power to make converting a blu-ray library something that doesn't take the rest of your life. The more Intel CPU cores, the better. My 6 core / 12 thread Core i7 @ 4.2 GHz will typically encode a 1080p movie @ 65fps+ (1st pass) and 35fps+ (2nd pass) depending on the encoding settings. 720p encoding is even faster, and all 12 threads are in use. But it still takes a few hrs overall.


I use to do the same with a Q6600 and Q9650 - I'd say overclock 'em as billbillw mentioned and that should suffice to start with. Because with those you have just the 4 cores / 4 threads.

EndersShadow

True, but if you just encode one movie a night (while keeping your others in their larger ripped size) as long as its done by the next morning, I am ok ....

PrazVT

EndersShadow wrote: »

True, but if you just encode one movie a night (while keeping your others in their larger ripped size) as long as its done by the next morning, I am ok ....

Man - not sure why that didn't occur to me You're right - it'd be done over night. I don't typically leave the 'big rig' running 24/7 (it's a space heat running full tilt w/ the triple radiator blowing straight up lol).

I guess the other thing to think about is what process everyone's using. I typically use MeGui and it's member tools (Avisynth script creator, HD Streams extractor, tsMuxer, etc.) for most of the pre-encoding & encoding functions. I use AVCHD Calculator for setting the bitrate though - I think MeGui's calc isn't accurate. And typically I'll use an AVCHD x264 profile w/ a few tweaks, or one of the PS3/360 x264 profiles (for fast encodes).

There may be more '1-click' ways of doing it these days - but once you get it down, I think alot of folks would prefer to have a little control over what they're doing. Which reminds me... I need to finish encoding the Star Wars saga; I had to redo a few to hard code the alien dialog subtitles Thankfully there seems to be a tool for just about everything lol.

billbillw

I think Handbrake is easier and faster, especially if you are not re-encoding the audio (passthrough) and sticking with the MKV container. MeGui might offer something else, but for reliability, subtitle ease (with the nightly builds), speed, and overall quality, I cannot fault Handbrake. On the normal profile with default settings (leave it on constant image quality RF:20), the image is good enough for me to view on my 100" projector without feeling it is too soft or finding pixelation. Handbrake offers plenty of control and its not one click, but the defaults are pretty close to ideal in my experience. The only thing its not controlling is final file size. Since I am placing them on my NAS, I am not concerned about size as long as the size is down significantly.

rtart

Thanks Enders...I found this very helpful.

I've run a Windows Home Server based system for years, mainly for the convenience of auto-backups for all PC's on my network. I store lots of ripped music, videos, photos, as well as business files, etc. and WHS works great. I understand why MS discontinued it - they want to make $$$ off the cloud, but it is a great program. I'd love to begin ripping some BD's to the 'tank', but haven't dedicated the time necessary to figure it all out.

I was also curious about HD DVD's ripping as well. I have a fairly large collection and also a HD DVD drive from a XBox that plugs right into a PC with a Win 7 driver. Any experience with that?

billbillw

rtart wrote: »

I was also curious about HD DVD's ripping as well. I have a fairly large collection and also a HD DVD drive from a XBox that plugs right into a PC with a Win 7 driver. Any experience with that?

I have one of the XBox drives too...bought it brand new when Frys was practically giving them away.

I haven't tried it yet, but from what I've read, MakeMKV will work just the same with the HDDVD drive. Not sure if handbrake will work just as well with the HDDVD MKV rip, but I suspect it will since most of the HDDVDs were encoded the same as their counterpart BluRays.

I still use a dual format LG BH200 as my main player, but one of these days, it will die and I'll have to rip all my HDDVD collection as well. Probably only ~20 movies on HDDVD, but it will be a bit time consuming.

rtart

Thanks Billbillw,

Playing with it all is on 'my list'. I've got several HD DVD players, and use a HD-A35 in my HT. I also have a dual-format machine, but rarely use it.

Hanging onto the players mostly for non-BD mastered titles. One is the Eagle's Farewell Tour #1 in Australia. Amazing.

rtart

Actually just Googled it and found that it is on BD now.

Anyone want to buy a HD-A35? :-)

billbillw

billbillw wrote: »

Not a whole lot to teach about Handbrake. I just use the nightly builds here:
http://handbrake.fr/nightly.php

The nightly build has added support for the PGS subtitles found in bluray movies. I only add the subtitles if the movie has forced subtitles (ie: when someone is speaking in another language).

Just install, start, open the single movie file.
Then I do the following:
In the output format pulldown, switch to MKV,
in the Picture tab, I just change from Loose to Anamorphic,
in the Audio tab, pulldown Codec and select DTS-HD passthrough (or AC3, DTS, etc., depending on original source)

IF the movie has forced subtitles, you have to figure out which subtitle track is correct. I usually preview in VLC for a few minutes and select the different subtitle tracks. You'd be looking for the one that doesn't put up subtitles when people are speaking English. Once you find that, go back to Handbrake, in the Subtitles tab, pulldown Add Track, then pull down and select the correct one (ie: English 1 (PGS), etc.) Then you must also click the boxes for forced only, and burn in.
That's it, select the save location and start. Walk away and 60-90 minutes later, your movie will be 1/3 the size.

Another note on subtitles, some movies have forced subtitles mixed in with full subtitles in the same PGS file. I just found this on The Hobbit-Smaug that I ripped to my NAS last night. It only had one English Subtitle file to choose, but I knew there was forced subtitles (when they talk in Elvish). Just select the main English file and select Forced Only and Burn in.

The reason you have to "burn in" is because the WDTV Live (and many other streaming devices) do not recognize the Forced Subtitle Flag. Thus you are making the subtitles part of the image by burning in and there are no flags needed.